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Old 09-10-2012, 03:33 PM   #121
disston
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If you are happy with the idle then the bike is happy with the idle.

The yellow oil light should never come on while the bike is running. Even a flickering of the oil light is a bad sign. It will do this if you are running low on oil but if you have enough oil and the light comes on ever while the bike is running this needs to be addressed right away. Tell me, did I read you said the yellow light comes on sometimes other than just when the key is on, the engine is off?
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Old 09-10-2012, 04:31 PM   #122
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If you are happy with the idle then the bike is happy with the idle.

The yellow oil light should never come on while the bike is running. Even a flickering of the oil light is a bad sign. It will do this if you are running low on oil but if you have enough oil and the light comes on ever while the bike is running this needs to be addressed right away. Tell me, did I read you said the yellow light comes on sometimes other than just when the key is on, the engine is off?
The oil light is ONLY on when the engine is OFF and the key is in the start position. And even this is occasional. Once the bike is turned on, the light goes away.
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Old 09-10-2012, 05:46 PM   #123
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Oh. But you are saying the yellow oil light is only on sometimes when the key is on the engine is off? Check the wire to the oil pressure switch. It is screwed into the block below and a little behind the left cylinder. If that's OK then the problem may be in the plug to the instruments or it may be inside the instrument cluster.

This is a very important idiot light. With out it working correctly the engine could be burned up or otherwise ruined. If the light stops working altogether it would still be possible to ride the bike but you are taking personal responsibly for a function that is not supposed to be yours.
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Old 09-10-2012, 05:59 PM   #124
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So if I read correct. When the engine is OFF, this light should remain yellow, and once the engine is turned ON the yellow light should turn off.

Is the correct?

Thanks.
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Old 09-10-2012, 06:21 PM   #125
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You're half way there. Key On Engine off is a technical term. It is always said in one sentence, the whole thing is said when ever having this conversation. What you said was the engine was off? Whats that? the engine is asleep, the car is parked? Remember the movie? Karate Kid, It was Wax on, Wax off.

When the key is on and the engine is off the yellow light should be on. When the engine is running the yellow light goes out. It should never come on while the engine is running.
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Old 09-10-2012, 08:33 PM   #126
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cool, well then it looks like we are in the clear.

I'll work on the timing tomorrow. hopefully that will get this thing a bit more dialed.

One minute it starts like a new bike, the next im fighting it.

Hopefully the timing solves the start inconsistencies. I thought I had it figured out.

...
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Old 09-13-2012, 03:08 PM   #127
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Thought this tank was neat. Saw it at a
Local shop.



More important to me, I pulled my carb off because I wanted to change out the butterfly shaft as mine felt a little stripped and I wanted to address it. I still need I address the time as well. I will do that on my next day off. Probably tomorrow. It seems to start really easy with a shot of carb cleaner but I need to figure out why it's behaving like such.

My plan includes setting the timing, adjusting the valves and if doesn't improve then it must be the carbs.

I'll have a look at the plugs as well. See where they are.

I got these in today as the spring tension was driving me bananas.


Probably could have found a set for .99$ but peice of mind goes a long way w me.
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:54 PM   #128
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ok, so I re-installed the carb and did my usual, which now includes spraying a bit of carb cleaner to start it. Went ahead and connected the timing light and tried to hold it at what I believe is about 1000 rpm. I could see a few marks in there.

It looks like as I am closer to 1000rpm there are a dot the an "S" like figure and another dot.

Never saw an F however. as I reved it up it seems like dots would appear towards the bottom of the hole as I rev down the dots with the S would appear on the top half of the hole.. I hope this makes some sense.

--------------------------------------------------

I could not get it to idle.

So to diagnose the carbs somewhat I tried unscrewing the mixture screw little by little by time I was done the screw all but fell out. with each increment the bike did not get any better or worse. it simply would not start.

Im wondering if there are any other suggestions.


Also to note, there has been no flooding from the little pin hole from either bowl. Im just wondering if I did something wrong carb wise. I wish it would just give me some sort of sign. I mean once I get it started via carb cleaner it gets going and compared to my buddies airhead, doesn't sound all that bad.

is there another screw or jet that may need attention? I have the needle in the 3rd slot but really that shouldn't result in no response or would prevent from starting . If anything I would believe that would make it run a bit richer. maybe the main jet assembly. I dunno. The float seems to be fine as well. .. hmmmmmmmmmmmmm:(

kinda frustrating but I'll keep chugging along.



thanks

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Old 09-13-2012, 07:00 PM   #129
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You need to work on only one thing at a time. For now I'll run down the things you may have messed up in the carbs.

#1 The butterfly disks..They have a dot stamped on one side. The dot goes on the side that faces the cylinder so it can be seen with the disk in the carb. It is placed on the top. It is a tiny punch mark. Sometimes hard to see. The disks should seal all daylight from their edges when completely closed. From the position of completely closed turn the idle screw in one and a half complete turns. Set them both the same and leave them there.

#2 The enrichners have an R for the right side carb and an L for the left side carb. Look at how they flow gas. How they work. You can see how they are sealed and flow no gas when the levers are down and the biggest tiny holes are working when the levers are up. Make sure the enrichners are properly positioned on the correct carbs.

The most common mistake in carb rebuilding is placing the enrichners on the wrong carbs. If you mix them up it will happen. If you have to spend an entire day do it to get these things right.

#3 The needle is on the second step. Do not put the needle on any other step to compensate or other wise change something. The second step is the only step you are allowed to set the needle on. If you don't know what step they are on take them out. It is a little bit of a pain to do this but as soon as you learn to do it right you won't have to do it any more. The needles are twisted 1/4 turn (you will feel the clip inside moving as the needle is twisted and then the needle is pulled or pushed to the next notch. If you have these needles out LOOK at them and see what I'm telling you. They have notches that are used to position them. Once you have both needles set hold the slides next to each other and look to see they are the same length. (sometimes you have to measure with something. there's no measurement for this it's just a check to see they are the same. If they are the same then you probably have them both on the second step.)

#4 Set the float levels so the float parting line is even with the edge of the carb body.

#5 Set the mixture screws one turn out. It is one turn and one turn only. Leave them there.

Alright I'm not sure if I might have left something out. If I did I'll try to tell you about it later. The object of this exercise is to set the carbs at on setting and leave them there. I know it sounds like we do everything at once but we don't. You should not be rebuilding the carbs at the same time you are playing with the timing. I want you to set the carbs at One setting and leave them alone. Understand?

Sorry if I'm yelling. I will try to tell you how to get the timing at a static setting that will start the bike. I'll be back later.
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Old 09-13-2012, 07:02 PM   #130
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Exactly what new parts have been installed in the carbs?
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Old 09-13-2012, 07:41 PM   #131
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Exactly what new parts have been installed in the carbs?
OK here is what I have done , new needles, jets, all gaskets and o rings, butterflies, float needles, diaphram , ez turn springs.

the things i kept i cleaned thoroughly, soaked overnight etc., had a tech look at them and said they were re-usable. blew air thru everything multiple times before reinstall.

Changing the needle position is simple. I will do so in the morning. I will set it to the second slot.

The butterflies are in the correct position and are closing to the point in which I put a flash light in the opposite side and no light leaks.

The Idle screw I will set in the morning. As well as the mixture screw.

I checked the enrichers - The left is on the left side if you are sitting on the bike, and the right is on the right.

i will go through everything again in the morning as well as change the needle setting to where it should be.


I appreciate all the help, yelling or not, sarcastic or not, forward, rude happy, constructive. I don't care. what ever it takes to get the bike running. I appreciate it all.

For someone to take their time to walk me step by step thru this stuff, appreciated to the max

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Old 09-13-2012, 08:15 PM   #132
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You need to understand what timing is. Look at the flywheel in this Ebay auction;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271054209746...84.m1423.l2649

In the third picture the timing marks are shown and a tape has been added. You can see the OT mark at Top Dead Center (TDC) This is 0 on the tape. The idle mark is hard to see, it is the three lines with an "S" at 12. The dot is at 36, I think it's actually 34 or 35, and on mine it has an "F". This flywheel doesn't seem to have the F but it has the Dot. The Dot is full advance.

This edge with the tape on it is what you see in the timing window. Your bike doesn't have the tape but it has those other marks stamped into the metal, or marks similar, not all years have exactly the same marks. We use OT (this is TDC) for setting valves, and a few other things. We use the three lines with the "S" for idle and for static timing. We use the Dot to set full advance because we can be assured the bike is not then running with to much timing which can damage it if it happens.

When the flywheel is in motion the numbers are falling. They move from the top of the timing window down. This is the direction of the engine. Ignition timing is established so the firing of the fuel will happen at the time that produces power. Turns out that this is before Top Dead Center. At idle the ignition fires about 10 to 12 degrees before TDC. This gives enough time for the flame to travel across the top of the piston and the entire fuel mixture to be burning at the moment the piston reaches the top of it's travel. As the piston starts back down the burning fuel will push on the piston. This is the power stroke. If the ignition is too early there will be pinging and possible damage to engine parts. If the ignition is too late there will be less power. As the rpm of the engine is raised the ignition will be advanced because there is less time for the flame to travel. It needs more of a head start. Until eventually the timing has reached its maximum advance and will stay there this is the full advance make at 35 degrees.

You need a test light to set static timing. They are cheap. Don't buy too cheap a one. We had you buy the cheap timing light (we're going to still get to use that. Later.) But even the cheapest ones should work. Only problem is they won't last. There are some test lights around that will fall apart. Sears or Harbor Freight again. If you can find this one by KD get it.;

http://www.toolking.com/kd-tools-129...FQjc4AodB0YAfQ

A test light is merely a bulb that has one terminal attached to a probe, the pointy end, and the other end of the bulb connected by a long wire to an alligator clip.

Directions for setting the static timing are in your Clymers manual I think. If you get ahead of me then get it from there. I'll try to write this up later tomorrow if I can.
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:33 PM   #133
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I'll get a test light in the morning. and be ready for our next go round.

in the morning i'll adjust the needle to the correct setting and have the test light. I will also re-read about setting the timing and see about how to do so for the static timing.
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:35 PM   #134
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Ah. So you never fixed the needle position yet? OK. One notch of the needle is equal to about four jumps in main jet size. That is a lot.

It sounds like you do have everything correct. Once the carbs are set leave them alone. Carburetors are really simple. They are not a mystery or magic. They flow gas and air together in a mixture that will burn. You could do the same thing with a water pistol. We need to leave the carburetors alone so we can set the timing.

Is the air filter good? New?
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Old 09-13-2012, 11:04 PM   #135
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Ah. So you never fixed the needle position yet? OK. One notch of the needle is equal to about four jumps in main jet size. That is a lot.

It sounds like you do have everything correct. Once the carbs are set leave them alone. Carburetors are really simple. They are not a mystery or magic. They flow gas and air together in a mixture that will burn. You could do the same thing with a water pistol. We need to leave the carburetors alone so we can set the timing.

Is the air filter good? New?
Will do the needle in the morning and set everything as you advised. perhaps thats the ticket here or at least going in the correct direction

Air filter is brand new OEM. Stock.

New plugs gapped to your suggestion.
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