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Old 09-06-2012, 03:31 PM   #16
newride
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be not afraid. it wants to run and run and run and run......... Mine has about 140,000 on it now and I really do nothing to it except adjust the valves once in a while. And my bike is needs alot! lol
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:51 AM   #17
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A end of week update; No huge milestones, but keeping the momentum up while waiting for parts to come in is important.

The oil in the final drive looked alright. it was red in color, but mostly clear. A good lump of swarf on the drain plug, but nothing gritty or resembling chrome bits.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know what the "ears" are for next to the bolts at the 11 and 5 oclock position?


The oil in the swingarm was ugly. Removing the drain bolt gave me about 1-2 tablespoons of rust-colored sludge oozed out.


This is (admittedly) a bad picture. I was trying to show what looks to be a spot of rust just inside the driveshaft housing/swingarm.


I'm out of my element here. All my other shafties (Ural, Guzzi, GS) don't have enclosed, lubricated drive shafts. My instinct is to pull the swingarm/driveshaft off, and douse everything liberally with kerosene to flush out the rusty oil. I might just be paranoid though too.


While I do love these custom 2-into-1 pipes with their lovely rust patina, I think I may have to throw them in the scrap pile. There isn't much clearance for the oil filter here, which means pulling the exhaust off for every oil change. I suppose that would be a good way to keep the exhaust nuts coated in anti-seize and loose, but it seems like a lot for a regular maintenance task.


Disston, above is a better shot, angle and light of the FD spline wear. It looks better than I thought it was, though you can see the "u" shaped wear pattern, which I find a little odd. The rear wheel on the bike does appear to be a stock /5 wheel.


Oil pan cleaned up pretty well with just a paintbrush and some kerosene.

Parts and the legendary factory workshop manual will hopefully be arriving next week. I'd like to pull the FD apart and start cleaning it in prep for new seals, but Haynes doesn't go into that. (It'll show you how to pull apart the transmission, but not the FD?).

My plan is to clean off the exterior, heat the unit to about 140-150 degrees with a heat gun, and pull off the cover. I'll measure seal seating dept and check bearing wear then. If any part of that sounds like a bad idea to anyone, I'm all ears. It seems straightforward to me, but some BMW bits always seem to have a little unseen gotcha that leaves me second-guessing myself.
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Old 09-07-2012, 11:18 AM   #18
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It sounds like the gear oil in your final drive was a later type than is used by the Airheads. Red is the wrong color. The book calls for 80/90 weight GL-5. There are others and some riders think this is an improvement to use something like an 80/140? I don't like the idea and use what is supposed to be there.

There is also a Synthetic Camp for the gear oil. You may try all this stuff someday but I suggest that right now you stick with what's in the book.

So the transmission, final drive and the swing arm all get the same oil. It looks like the swing arm might of had a leak? Were any of the other two oils whitish or had debris? I think if you clean it as much as you can and change the swing arm oil a couple of extra times it will be OK.

After you get things stable and this beast back on the road you should check the three gear oil levels every few days in the beginning to see if there is any transfer. Sometimes oil will migrate because of a bad seal and we can deal with this in several ways including fixing the seals.
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Old 09-07-2012, 05:19 PM   #19
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"Out of curiosity, does anyone know what the "ears" are for next to the bolts at the 11 and 5 oclock position?"

Thread a bolt into them to lift off the cover. Best to remove the retaining nuts first.
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Old 09-07-2012, 07:34 PM   #20
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Quote:
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"Out of curiosity, does anyone know what the "ears" are for next to the bolts at the 11 and 5 oclock position?"

Thread a bolt into them to lift off the cover. Best to remove the retaining nuts first.
Dito. It's how you take the final drive apart, at least that side of it. To get into the pinion gear side you need some special tools.
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Old 09-09-2012, 07:58 PM   #21
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That makes great sense guys. Thanks for the info! Don't know why they didn't incorporate this into the newer FD units. Then again, who really knows why BMW does some of the things they do...

I'm not a synthetic oil guy. Engines have been running just fine for many, many years on regular oil, I don't see a need to switch. I've also yet to see any clear or concise proof that running synthetic will keep your engine turning for more miles than the cheap stuff. Beemer or Ural, they all get the same stuff. Whatever 80/90wt gear oil is on sale at the auto store is what goes into the FD.

I've read several threads about people "gooping" hylomar sealant around the pinon seals and splines to prevent driveshaft fluid from leaking into the FD. Any merit to this? Replacing a pinon seal isn't my idea of fun, but doesn't look like a huge deal. The seal is kinda costly for some reason though.

No work this weekend. Celebrated the two year anniversary with the babe over the weekend in our own way. Work resumes this week, and hopefully a nice box of parts will arrive this week as well.

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Old 09-09-2012, 08:09 PM   #22
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Bel-Ray's gear oil is red. The splines on the pinion shaft and drive gear should be (carefully) coated with Hylomar, and the nut installed with Loctite 272-the red thread locker.

What does the muffler on your exhaust system look like?
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Old 09-12-2012, 11:28 AM   #23
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Quote:
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Bel-Ray's gear oil is red. The splines on the pinion shaft and drive gear should be (carefully) coated with Hylomar, and the nut installed with Loctite 272-the red thread locker.

What does the muffler on your exhaust system look like?
Just so I'm clear, the two arrowed items here are what you are referring to, right? I know what nut you are talking about.



The exhaust system is a one-piece system. Looks home-made to me. I'm not really sure. Waiting for an exhaust nut wrench to arrive before I try to remove it. Maybe you can identify what its made from. There are no markings on it whatsoever.



Also, off topic; The throttle felt crunchy before. The cables are worn and kinked, but the gears on the throttle tube and cam are well worn as well. The photo does a bad job of showing it, but 3 or 4 teeth are excessively worn. Seems like it would last more than 40K miles to me. Any reason it might wear so badly in such a short period of time?

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Old 09-12-2012, 11:58 AM   #24
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They should have grease on them. Maybe they will last longer with grease. I don't think they last forever though. I also believe they should be replaced as a pair. You might save the parts that seem not so worn for use with other used parts but if I'm spending the money for one new part I want it with another new part. Used parts can be had occasionally. A little grease on the handle bar where this rides. Grease on the teeth.

What kind of grease? Some people have suggested the same one we use for splines. That's Honda Moly 60 for most riders these days, there are others. I use ordinary wheel bearing grease. But any grease here is better than none.

I do the throttle gear cleaning and greasing every year usually in the Spring.

The tube you show is really bad. You will notice a big improvement with a good one.

BTW, you never asked I think. I hope you are getting OEM throttle cables? Worth the extra money for these. Others might work but the OEM just works better.
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Old 09-12-2012, 12:00 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebelpacket View Post
Just so I'm clear, the two arrowed items here are what you are referring to, right? I know what nut you are talking about.



The exhaust system is a one-piece system. Looks home-made to me. I'm not really sure. Waiting for an exhaust nut wrench to arrive before I try to remove it. Maybe you can identify what its made from. There are no markings on it whatsoever.



Also, off topic; The throttle felt crunchy before. The cables are worn and kinked, but the gears on the throttle tube and cam are well worn as well. The photo does a bad job of showing it, but 3 or 4 teeth are excessively worn. Seems like it would last more than 40K miles to me. Any reason it might wear so badly in such a short period of time?
a) That's not a short time.
b) They probably weren't kept properly lubricated
c) Many consider them to be "wear items" I know that I do.

A#1 on Disstons comment about cables. The factory supplied cables are the only decent choice. Nothing works as smoothly.
I know I'll offend someone but here goes......Venhill Cables SUCK.
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Old 09-12-2012, 12:49 PM   #26
rebelpacket OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wirewrkr View Post
a) That's not a short time.
b) They probably weren't kept properly lubricated
c) Many consider them to be "wear items" I know that I do.
Works for me. Thanks for sharing your experience. I have no idea how things wear on these bikes.

I stuck with the factory cables for replacements. The ones on my 1150GS have lasted 60K miles, so they must be doing something right.
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Old 09-12-2012, 05:30 PM   #27
newride
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Yes. throttle. just replaced my throttle tube and chain. (and the other little gear). Night and day. The bike feels like a different, more responsive bike.
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Old 09-13-2012, 10:25 PM   #28
rebelpacket OP
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Ordered a new throttle tube and cam/chain. No sense putting it together with new throttle cables if the mechanism is chewed up. I have a tub of bel-ray waterproof grease that'll go on with it.

Still no parts yet; So I started pulling apart the FD and inspecting things. Comes apart much easier than the later models, I like the simplicity. I don't like all the nooks and crannies that grease, gunk and debris can collect in. Its worse than a english muffin in there.



The FD seal looks like it might have been replaced once already, and maybe installed incorrectly? The spring wear rubbed into the seal in the wrong place can't be from removal.



Also, quite a large bit of sludge on the other side of the seal. Chunky mess.



Disston and bmwwrench mentioned that many of the seals stand "proud" on the /5 and other r-bikes. This FD seal looks like its flush with the FD cover. Not sure if this is right or wrong. It looks right to me.



The cardan gasket looks to be the original (red) kind. The replacment I ordered is green, and possibly of larger thickness. The original gasket read .015" on all exposed sections. I'll pull it off before I reassemble it and check again.



And the crown wheel bearing preload shim came in at a solid .016".



Not sure how big the new gasket is in comparison. I see that the shims are in .001" increments, from .06" to .10" (at least that is what displayed on maxbmw). If the difference is .001-.002 more between gaskets, I'll probably just throw it together and not worry about it. Any more than that and I'd be wearing worry beads, thinking there isn't enough preload on the CWB.

Edit: Just realized... maybe you can stack the shims together to achieve the correct preload. Duh. Need to stop wrenching after the fourth beer. Things get fuzzy...
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Old 09-14-2012, 03:55 PM   #29
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From my understanding of gears, these are Hyphoid gears I think. The issues are not about the bearing load or preload. The issues are about how the teeth of the gears mesh and their contact pattern. It is a deep subject in general and then beings as we are trying to deal with the German machine it is so much more complicated.

The consequences of an improper set up are a noisy rear end and/or broken teeth in the final drive.

I'd love to actually understand this issue more. Anybody?
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Old 09-16-2012, 02:42 AM   #30
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Any reason it might wear so badly in such a short period of time?

the housing for the cam gear can also wear, alowing play in the cam gear, which then wears a new cam gear and throttle tube quicker. Might or might not be the case for you.
My R90 bits were all so chewed up I replaced all three.
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