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Old 04-06-2013, 12:41 AM   #2221
DYNOBOB
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I'm guessing legally Loncin's "deal" was with Husqvarna (not BMW) to produce a product for Husqvarna. Pierre bought Husqvarna. This is speculation as is all of this since we're not privy to these deals. It appears that production of the TR is continuing which wouldn't be happening if Husky didn't have the legal right to purchase the engine so that's an indicator of something. Nobody's questioning who was pulling the strings back then or where the engineers came from that developed the engine.


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Old 04-06-2013, 01:23 AM   #2222
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You are right we are guessing. I think you are guessing wrong.

When BMW bought Husqvarna for 93 mil they also staffed it with high level BMW employess. Probably on Husqvarna's tab. When Pierre bought the company they went back to BMW.

This Husqvarna engine has a forged high compression piston, bigger valves and hotter cams. I am not sure it is a different head or a recontour of the combustion chamber and smaller spark plugs.

I have a lot the same mods on my KLX680. It is still a Kawasaki.
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Old 04-06-2013, 05:20 AM   #2223
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Why?

Just a thought of mine. Why wouldn't BMW simply keep this great motor to put in there on 650 single line. As wonderful as it is ( yes I have rode it) and as much as everybody loves it and should, why wouldn't BMW just use it. So my guess is no matter what husky does with the terra, the motor lives!
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:28 AM   #2224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsatdm View Post
You are right we are guessing. I think you are guessing wrong.

When BMW bought Husqvarna for 93 mil they also staffed it with high level BMW employess. Probably on Husqvarna's tab. When Pierre bought the company they went back to BMW.

This Husqvarna engine has a forged high compression piston, bigger valves and hotter cams. I am not sure it is a different head or a recontour of the combustion chamber and smaller spark plugs.

I have a lot the same mods on my KLX680. It is still a Kawasaki.

Again, We're all familiar with the history of the BMW purchase, staffing, and engine design details. None of that has any bearing on whether Husky has the contractual right to continue purchasing this engine. You keep stating on this thread like it was fact that the TR is destined to go away or change because they cant keep using a "BMW" engine. I'm saying this is likely not the case and prospective buyers coming here to research shouldn't leave thinking that.

If the TR goes away it will because it doesn't fit into Pierre's plan, it's still hard to tell what his short to long term plans are. You can be sure though that an element of the "golden rule" entered into the sale of Husky. Pierre was the guy standing there w/ the money to purchase a company BMW wanted to sale and there probably wasn't a long line behind him. He got whatever he felt was in his best interest and I'd think his product guys saw value to Husky in the TR design. Maybe I'm wrong and it will be gone by the end of the year, rumored discounts might say that is the case.

Sorry for derailing your thread again guys...




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Old 04-06-2013, 09:13 AM   #2225
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I know that BMW has a licensing agreement with Loncin. Typically that type of contract allows the user (Loncin) to use the engine/design with condions attached.

I have posted a reference to a statement from a Loncin official about that agreement. It was they can not sell their bike with the BMW engine outside China. No reason to believe that they can sell the engine outside China without BMW approval. I assume that includes the Husqvarna version as BMW owned Husky, it was run with BMW employs in place and they had a hand in the redesign which was not that much of a change

I don't know the terms of any contract. I don't know if Pierrer cut a deal. I know that his initial stated plan for the company did not leave me to believe the BMW based engines had a role. Pierrer initiated this process, I really can't understand why BMW would sell to a competitor a like bike to their own that was both better and cheaper.

Posters who assure new buyers that all Pierrer has to do is contract with Rotax or Loncin to get more engines are misleading. It is not that simple which is what I was trying to show.

The same people state the Terra was the top selling bike even though it was only on the market 3 mos and sold 1250 units. They state Pierrer won't dump the model because it was so profitable. How do they know that? It undersells BMW's offering, it is assembled in a union shop and Pierrer states the company is losing 20 mil a year. It certainly is more complex bike than a KLR yet sells for only $500 more. How do they do that?

Then you get into the public statements made by Pierre about the future for the company.

Thats the other side as opposed to those I am not saying it is right, but there is some reason for my belief as opposed to others who don't seem to do much fact checking.

You can go back to your regular scheduled program
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Old 04-06-2013, 11:12 AM   #2226
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If the rumored rebate of $1k comes through, and the Terra is under $6k, a lot of objections about the sale, Loncin contracts, etc are going to go by the wayside------
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Old 04-06-2013, 12:17 PM   #2227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DYNOBOB View Post
Again, We're all familiar with the history of the BMW purchase, staffing, and engine design details. None of that has any bearing on whether Husky has the contractual right to continue purchasing this engine. You keep stating on this thread like it was fact that the TR is destined to go away or change because they cant keep using a "BMW" engine. I'm saying this is likely not the case and prospective buyers coming here to research shouldn't leave thinking that.
The above has been my take on all this from the beginning of this thread.
Far as I know, neither TDM Gary ... nor anyone else has seen the sales contract between BMW and Pierer Group ... or the contract BMW have with Loncin.

Pierer Group would have never bought into the deal if the motor for their brand new Terra/Strada product could not be sourced. Transferring the Loncin contract from BMW to Pierer Group I'm sure is all part of the deal ... at least for next year or three.

Sure, BMW will continue to use the Loncin Sertao/G650 version of the motor. And the tweaked "Husky" version will continue as well. For how long? Hopefully indefinitely.

And yes ... BMW have pulled back some engineers from Italy ... but I'm quite sure the Italian Husky team will continue to innovate and improve product providing Pierer Group provide funding. If not ... then Husky will become Bajaj
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Old 04-06-2013, 01:18 PM   #2228
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Just remember that a $1000 additional rebate on the already very price competitive TR650 would cause many people (me) that just bought one at $6999 to have some serious heartburn and distaste on future brand loyalty.

from what i've seen on tr650 (lack of) availability on teh showrooms...i can't see any big blowout coming.

plus, my local husky dealer (JT cycles in kalamazoo, mi) had a moss unit brand new still in the packaging, mechanic had just attended training on it...they had no indication of not servicing anything.
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Old 04-06-2013, 09:09 PM   #2229
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Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
Pierer Group would have never bought into the deal if the motor for their brand new Terra/Strada product could not be sourced. Transferring the Loncin contract from BMW to Pierer Group I'm sure is all part of the deal ... at least for next year or three.
That makes sense and fits with my view of 'the deal' since so few actual facts are known and we're all making semi-educated guesses.

Look at the Husqvarna lineup. The 449/511 and TR650 are all based on a BMW motor. The X-Lite 250/310 isn't... but if that was the only powerplant to survive the transition it would be slim pickin's in the Husqvarna showroom for a while.

They didn't purchase the brand to have a historic nameplate and start from scratch.
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Old 04-06-2013, 10:31 PM   #2230
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I keep thinking of the comment that they want to take the brand back to it's two-stroke roots. I wonder if anyone could ever make a durable two-stroke adventure bike? Doesn't seem likely.
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Old 04-07-2013, 05:50 AM   #2231
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Originally Posted by jigmoore View Post
just remember that a $1000 additional rebate on the already very price competitive tr650 would cause many people (me) that just bought one at $6999 to have some serious heartburn and distaste on future brand loyalty.
this........
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Old 04-07-2013, 08:42 AM   #2232
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All in all, the Terra did awesome. I'm really surprised I never laid it over (thanks to a super knobby tire).
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Old 04-07-2013, 12:01 PM   #2233
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For the Terra owners, is there anything in the warranty work that would require dealership activity? I understand there is a dealership 2 or 3 hours from my location, but that would be freakin annoying to trailer it over there for many reasons, thanks.
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Old 04-07-2013, 12:22 PM   #2234
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For the Terra owners, is there anything in the warranty work that would require dealership activity? I understand there is a dealership 2 or 3 hours from my location, but that would be freakin annoying to trailer it over there for many reasons, thanks.
I'm in the same boat. I bought mine from Tucson (3-4 hrs way) and they said I could do all of the maintenance myself and still have a valid warranty. I should be coming up on my first valve inspection here soon, so I'll attempt that myself.
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Old 04-07-2013, 12:35 PM   #2235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jigmoore View Post
Just remember that a $1000 additional rebate on the already very price competitive TR650 would cause many people (me) that just bought one at $6999 to have some serious heartburn and distaste on future brand loyalty.
Why would a rebate to me affect you? Car makers have done it for years. Many Stradas and Terras in stock at BMW of Las Vegas.
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