ktm 350exc vs 500exc vs wr250r

[Foot dragger]

Originally Posted by jimhaleyscomet

In July 2011 I purchased a new 2011 KTM450EXC. Stock jetting was unsafe on the street. It had oil transfer issues from day one and the local dealers did not know enough about the bike to help me maintain / repair it. It spent 3-4 of the next 14 stressful months I owned it in the shop. The motor made 2 trips to KTM Ohio for repairs. Finally, I traded it back to the dealer and lost $5000. Don't even get me going on the 6 month warranty (what a JOKE) and crappy customer support.

I replaced it (somewhat indirectly) with a 2008 WR250r with power mods.

Don't let the light weight of the 450exc (or larger) fool you. I am not exactly sure why but big engines don't like to turn. The KTM was a handful on tight trails as the stock gearing and lack of fan made it overheat.

As for maintenance and repairs remember that KTM's are race bikes. Every part is designed to just barely do the job. There is often only one way to perform most maintenance items (and many ways to do it improperly). It is VERY easy to cross thread screws, mess up air filter installation etc if you make any mistakes. If you are a great mechanic or have a pit crew go ahead. If you need help, forget it. Perhaps you know a good KTM mechanic but I could not find a good KTM mechanic even when I was willing to pay for the repairs.

I drank the orange kool aide and I threw up!

Often times,knowing what you are doing can make all the difference.
Why is a KTM screw or bolt easier to cross thread then any other?
The oil transfer issue is 1 seal behind the clutch,its an hour job even by a home mechanic. If KTM's dont turn,just how did they win all 4 off road championships in the US?Jetting the bike is an hour job also.Gearing gets changed before you ride it in the dirt.
Dirtbike riders have been working on their own bikes for many years,if I had to take mine to the shop for maintenance I would never get to ride the thing,on any dirt/dual purpose bike.
Its better that you ride a WR250R.

[Foot dragger]

Originally Posted by wizz

what about the 530exc? seen a few seemingly good deals (one was an08 with 200 miles for 6k). yall have mentioned the 525, but what aabout the 530? the wr rode nice, still wouldnt rule it out if i found a good deal, but not for a new otd price.

My 530 works fine,carbs arent an issue for anything I do. Im sure the 2012 500's are great as well but I have 0 problem going as fast as needed on a carb'd bike.

KTM still doesnt use FI on their Dakar bikes or Baja bikes,its the need to finish that drives them. I tend to ride my 530 out in the middle of nowhere (Nevada) Somehow I have a great time on it even with out FI.

[garrett]

I currently own a 690, and rode it all summer, on singletrack, quad trails, Moab, Utah, Colorado. I had fun with it but I wanted something lighter that was more dirt friendly. There is a 500 in my garage now. Is it spendy? Yup there aren't giving them away. I went back and forth between the 350 and 500 and settled on the 500EXC because it was more of an all round bike FOR ME. I PM'd guys who rode both, and my take was if you're doing mostly singletrack, get a 350. I tour and do lots of connecting between trails so the 500 is what I chose.

It's unfortunate when you get a lemon and KTM, or any manufacturer, should step up when there's a problem with a new bike. However, I'm not convinced that when you buy KTM's you're more likely to strip bolts and you won't be able to turn them because they have a bigger motor, sorry, but that makes no sense. They have a racing lineage and are light, maneuverable and fun to ride. I've ridden my buddies 450 and loved it on trails and if you go through the 500 and 350 threads here I doubt you'll find anyone that says how poorly they handle.

At the end of the day, it's a hard swallow to eat the cash outlay for a new bike, but I decided to chew fast and swallow hard and get what I want.

Good luck in your search.

Garrett

[bobnoxious67]

Truth be told here

Originally Posted by ADVJake

Plain and simple, your KTM was a lemon, and every manufacturer has had many of them.
I can think of a brand new DRZ400 that had its engine rebuilt within 1 year of ownership, among many other issues.

And the latter paragraph is nonsense. The KTM uses high quality components, because it is a race bike. Look for the high mileage examples of these motors, there are heaps.
Easy to concentrate on the minority problematic bikes, and unfortunately the news of that spreads like wildfire. It's as rare as the 3rd gear blow up issue on the famously reliable DR650.

Originally Posted by Foot dragger

Often times,knowing what you are doing can make all the difference.
Why is a KTM screw or bolt easier to cross thread then any other?
The oil transfer issue is 1 seal behind the clutch,its an hour job even by a home mechanic. If KTM's dont turn,just how did they win all 4 off road championships in the US?Jetting the bike is an hour job also.Gearing gets changed before you ride it in the dirt.
Dirtbike riders have been working on their own bikes for many years,if I had to take mine to the shop for maintenance I would never get to ride the thing,on any dirt/dual purpose bike.
Its better that you ride a WR250R.

[LukasM]

Originally Posted by jimhaleyscomet

In July 2011 I purchased a new 2011 KTM450EXC. Stock jetting was unsafe on the street. It had oil transfer issues from day one and the local dealers did not know enough about the bike to help me maintain / repair it. It spent 3-4 of the next 14 stressful months I owned it in the shop. The motor made 2 trips to KTM Ohio for repairs. Finally, I traded it back to the dealer and lost $5000. Don't even get me going on the 6 month warranty (what a JOKE) and crappy customer support.

I replaced it (somewhat indirectly) with a 2008 WR250r with power mods.

Don't let the light weight of the 450exc (or larger) fool you. I am not exactly sure why but big engines don't like to turn. The KTM was a handful on tight trails as the stock gearing and lack of fan made it overheat.

As for maintenance and repairs remember that KTM's are race bikes. Every part is designed to just barely do the job. There is often only one way to perform most maintenance items (and many ways to do it improperly). It is VERY easy to cross thread screws, mess up air filter installation etc if you make any mistakes. If you are a great mechanic or have a pit crew go ahead. If you need help, forget it. Perhaps you know a good KTM mechanic but I could not find a good KTM mechanic even when I was willing to pay for the repairs.

I drank the orange kool aide and I threw up!

Stock jetting and stock gearing, are you serious??

Did you not realize that these parts are only put on there to get these bikes street legal, which would be completely impossible with a carbureted 450 with about 50 HP?? Obviously there is some minimal setup work that needs to be done by yourself or by your dealer if he is not completely incompetent. You would have known that doing even the smallest amount of research and due diligence.

Oil transfer issues is another matter, and your dealer should certainly have taken care off it. It is a weak point of the XC4 engine, although I haven't heard of it happening often (at all?) on the 2010 and later bikes. Personally I prefer the RFS series, the Husabergs , or the 2012+ EXCs because they have a single sump.

[crankshaft]

Originally Posted by Foot dragger

KTM still doesnt use FI on their Dakar bikes or Baja bikes,its the need to finish that drives them

This is the first time I've read this, have you seen this in a KTM press release?

[LukasM]

Originally Posted by crankshaft

This is the first time I've read this, have you seen this in a KTM press release?

I have not heard anything to the contrary, have you? All 450 and 690 Rallies, whether factory or replica, have been using the good old Keihin FCR-MX carb up until now, including Rally Morocco last month AFAIK.

[jimhaleyscomet]

Originally Posted by LukasM

Stock jetting and stock gearing, are you serious??

Did you not realize that these parts are only put on there to get these bikes street legal, which would be completely impossible with a carbureted 450 with about 50 HP?? Obviously there is some minimal setup work that needs to be done by yourself or by your dealer if he is not completely incompetent. You would have known that doing even the smallest amount of research and due diligence.

Oil transfer issues is another matter, and your dealer should certainly have taken care off it. It is a weak point of the XC4 engine, although I haven't heard of it happening often (at all?) on the 2010 and later bikes. Personally I prefer the RFS series, the Husabergs , or the 2012+ EXCs because they have a single sump.

I never said that no one should buy a new KTM. My problem was I am not the best mechanic and the thought of tearing down an engine after I just paid $9k+ for a new bike quite frankly struck fear into my heart. I did change the jetting and sprockets pronto. What got me is the dealers were absolutely no help whatsoever. The first dealer's solution to disappearing engine oil was to "add more, it is new" (later it turned up in the transmission). When I asked about the jetting they were clueless. Finally I ordered a jetting kit and that did the trick. The second dealers answer to the missing oil was to drain all the oils and refill with correct amounts (and charging me $90 for the "repair"). I mean this bike had no oil in the sightglass after I rode it home from the dealer (35 miles). Then KTM Ohio's wonderful advice was to switch to 10x50 mineral oil (also didn't work).

As for "stripping out bolts" I only ever used a torque wrench. I cross threaded the transmission bolt "weep" bolt (I had to check the transmission fluid every ride) I assume because it was not designed to be pulled every day to check the oil. BUT it was the only way to figure out if the tranny had oil other than a full oil change of both sides (which I also did numerous times).

I am sure all the manufactures occasionally have problems but it is how they respond to the problems that counts. The bike had a 6 month factory warranty and local dealers had minimal expertise how to maintain / diagnose the bike. Finally I was subjected to KTM Ohio's failure to diagnose ("just run mineral oil and it will fix it"), failure to return phone calls, and failure to make any concession to get me out of a lemon bike.

Like I said before, if you have the wrench skills then go for a KTM product. Just realize if something goes wrong you are on your own unless you know a good local mechanic (or have the skills yourself). For myself I bought the bike to ride, not for the "project bike" it turned into.

[Off the grid]

Originally Posted by jimhaleyscomet

In July 2011 I purchased a new 2011 KTM450EXC. Stock jetting was unsafe on the street. It had oil transfer issues from day one and the local dealers did not know enough about the bike to help me maintain / repair it. It spent 3-4 of the next 14 stressful months I owned it in the shop. The motor made 2 trips to KTM Ohio for repairs. Finally, I traded it back to the dealer and lost $5000. Don't even get me going on the 6 month warranty (what a JOKE) and crappy customer support.

I replaced it (somewhat indirectly) with a 2008 WR250r with power mods.

Don't let the light weight of the 450exc (or larger) fool you. I am not exactly sure why but big engines don't like to turn. The KTM was a handful on tight trails as the stock gearing and lack of fan made it overheat.

As for maintenance and repairs remember that KTM's are race bikes. Every part is designed to just barely do the job. There is often only one way to perform most maintenance items (and many ways to do it improperly). It is VERY easy to cross thread screws, mess up air filter installation etc if you make any mistakes. If you are a great mechanic or have a pit crew go ahead. If you need help, forget it. Perhaps you know a good KTM mechanic but I could not find a good KTM mechanic even when I was willing to pay for the repairs.

I drank the orange kool aide and I threw up!

You did everything wrong as an owner. No research, you figured you would just drop your coin and ride. You are right, you are better on a Japanese bike. What are you going to do when you need an oil change?

Originally Posted by Foot dragger

If a wr250 didnt weigh 290 lbs I could see the need for one,but they do.
The low end grunt of a big engine would be sorely missed putting around on a little sewing machine like that.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I believe the WRR is 305lbs, same as the 690.

[jimhaleyscomet]

Originally Posted by LukasM

Stock jetting and stock gearing, are you serious??

Did you not realize that these parts are only put on there to get these bikes street legal, which would be completely impossible with a carbureted 450 with about 50 HP?? Obviously there is some minimal setup work that needs to be done by yourself or by your dealer if he is not completely incompetent. You would have known that doing even the smallest amount of research and due diligence.

.....

Yes I did a bit of research before I purchased. Because of my internet research, I asked the first dealer about jetting and more generally "Is there anything I need to do to this bike" before taking delivery. The response was "No, she is ready to go. Just keep moving because you don't want it to get hot while breaking in".

[Off the grid]

Originally Posted by jimhaleyscomet

Yes I did a bit of research before I purchased. Because of my internet research, I asked the first dealer about jetting and more generally "Is there anything I need to do to this bike" before taking delivery. The response was "No, she is ready to go. Just keep moving because you don't want it to get hot while breaking in".

Yeah, you got a crappy dealer there, bro.

[crankshaft]

Originally Posted by LukasM

I have not heard anything to the contrary, have you? All 450 and 690 Rallies, whether factory or replica, have been using the good old Keihin FCR-MX carb up until now, including Rally Morocco last month AFAIK.

I've never heard KTM mention one way or the other honestly. I guess we can blame it on the ADV parrot. How many bikes compete in Dakar with FI?
BMW, Husky, Ape, Yamaha, Berg or did they all go back to carbs?

[crankshaft]

Originally Posted by jimhaleyscomet

Yes I did a bit of research before I purchased. Because of my internet research, I asked the first dealer about jetting and more generally "Is there anything I need to do to this bike" before taking delivery. The response was "No, she is ready to go. Just keep moving because you don't want it to get hot while breaking in".

You're a bad researcher. Even my Wife knows that KTM's come from the dealer needing a re-jet and a gear change and She doesn't ride. Next time you need a bike, I'll do some research for you.

[ADVNCW]

Originally Posted by rickypanecatyl

I'd like to throw out my thoughts on bike price in the hope of changing enough peoples minds that manufacturers follow up with more bikes in the high quality reliable "niche."

Here in Malaysia where the per capita income is roughly 25% of what it is in America, people commonly pay over 10 grand US$ for a bike - I suppose that would be like Americans commonly spending over $40,000 for a bike. However at the same time it isn't financially irresponsible as we easily average 8X as many miles per bike as the average American. (Malaysians bikers are in absolute shock when I tell them about "craigslist" where you can offer find a DR400 8 years old with less than 10,000 miles on it!) Thus we only spend on average 50% of our total income on bikes.

There are not too many bikes in the WR250R category; a bike that the manufactures tried to make with reasonable quality (certainly not excellent) and yet at the same time reliable. KTM690 tried but failed miserably... the Husky


No doubt the KTM 500EXC is a much cooler bike than the WR250R. But consider the price difference. At present the KTM is aproximately 7X more expensive than the WR250R in "REAL" money. Reliable info is tough to get, but a pretty good guess would be on average you could make it 50,000 miles on a WR250R with the same amount of repair and maintenance you would spend after 10,000 miles on the KTM500.

Or in other words:

WR250R $7,000/50,000 miles or .14 cents per mile of ownership
KTM500EXC - $10,000/10,000 miles or 1 dollar per mile of ownership

The point of this post is not to debate how accurate my guestimates are, but just to encourage bike buyers to think this way before complaining about a bikes price. If my wishes came true KTM would put out a KTMEXC450 "reliable" that might be down on power 5%, up on weight 10 lbs, last as long as a WR250R and perhaps cost $15,000. It would still weigh much, much less than the WR250R and have much more power. That would make it cost 2X as much as the WRR and 3 1/2 times less than the normal EXC in real money.
I'm confident the technology is there to build such bikes but consumers have to understand the value of said bike before manufactures would risk building it.

Interesting analysis. Cost is the main thing holding me back. I have the money, I just do not want to be stupid and immature in how money is spent. And why do some KTM owners (or former) turn into such ????

Typical KTM zealots here sound like some religious fanatics.

[Off the grid]

Everyone do yourselves a favor and put ADVNCW on ignore.

He's fucking insane, and I don't say that lightly.

After I schooled him in the Honda thread, he sent me 2 long hate PMs. Really twisted, evil shit. (because of a motorcycle? )

Just put him on ignore and save the aggravation. Life is too short.