ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Thumpers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-31-2006, 08:48 PM   #61
Earthscape
Have ya got a helmut?
 
Earthscape's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Western Mass
Oddometer: 301
Some comparison pics of the stock LC4 and Electrosport ESG950 stators:
(Obviously the cover doesn't come with the stator, I just happen to have 2 covers so used them both mounted for comparison.)









Earthscape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2007, 01:41 PM   #62
drrags
Dorkus Malorkus
 
drrags's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: Reno, NV
Oddometer: 1,813
Now that it's been 6 months since the last update, how's it been holding out? Anything new?
drrags is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2007, 09:27 AM   #63
KayaKTM
Day trippin'
 
KayaKTM's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Western NC
Oddometer: 405
where are the pics!!!

ok what the hell happened to the pics from this post/thread???? i've ordered all the parts but now the pics on the how to are gone! they were up last week when my mechanic and i looked at it.

help anyone!??!

also does anyone know what the regulator listed in this upgrade is for? we can't find what model bike it's for? we've located the stator through Ricky Stator but can't ID the regulator.

TIA for any help here.

ps i'll be happy to post my success with this if i can just find the info i need to do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earthscape
A word of warning about this before I get started. The weather here has been miserable and cold, so I haven't been able to put this modification to the torture test yet. Initial results look real good, but I will post an update here when I'm able to do more thorough testing.

That said, I originally started this because the headlights left a lot to be desired. I located and installed a pair of 70 watt bulbs to replace the 55 watt stock bulbs, and this helped, but was barely adequate. Riding with the increased headlight output, heated grips and heated vest really pushed the charging system to the limit, if not beyond it. It's reassuring that the 640 has both electric and kick start.

My LC4 is a 1999 model. I don't think much has changed on the LC4 that would impact what I have here, but I don't know that for sure.

Now, on to the good stuff. I contacted several companies looking for stator rewind services to increase the output of the stock stator, and most answers that I got were along the lines of "we won't rewind it, but the 640 already has one of the most powerful stators for a dirt bike, so why do you need more?". Maybe true, but it's mighty weak for a street bike, so they were of no help. Then I contacted Electrosport, www.electrosport.com (used to be Electrex USA), and they told me they do indeed have a more powerful stator for the 640, although it is not listed anywhere on their web site. Their part number for this stator is now ESG950. It now lists for $154.00 on their web site, including shipping, which is a good bit cheaper than when I bought it. I was originally told the ESG950 made more power and at lower RPM than the stock stator, and that the output was 250 watts, which was 50 to 70 watts more than the stock stator. However, in later conversations, they said the maximum output of the stator was 350 watts. I have an email out to them to clarify what the output is across the RPM range. It is important to note that the ESG950 was not originally designed for the LC4 engine, and so does not have the correct connectors on it. The stator comes with connectors for a Yamaha Raptor, which the KTM obviously isn't. So the only way to connect it is to cut the connector it comes with off, and cut the connector from the KTM stator off and connect the two together. To find it on their web site, look under Yamaha ATVs, or go here




The new stator wires aren't long enough to reach all the way to the stock connector anyway. The new stator also comes with a new pulser coil, which is not compatible with the Adventure, nor is it needed. You'll need some Locktite, preferrably removable type that can set in the presence of oil. It's probably also a good idea to have a spare gasket on hand in case you tear the original getting it off.

The old stator comes out pretty easily. Tank and fairing need to come off because the connector for the stator is under the tank. The oil must be drained (or leaned over to the let), and the right engine side cover removed. I also had to remove the starter to get the old stator wire out and the new wire in. You could do it without removing the starter if you cut the old connector off (leave yourself plenty of wire!) and pulled the wires through without the connector on (you'd also have to feed the new stator wire under the starter before putting the stock connector back on if you did that). But removing the starter is very, very easy. Just two visible bolts, and pull horizontally (toward you). The starter slides right out piece of cake, and goes back in just as easy.



Just rest the starter out of the way temporarily.



The clutch actuation arm is a tight fit above the stator wires and the oil lines. Loosening the bolt and raising the arm on the shaft makes getting the wire out and back in much easier.



The stator is attached to the inside of the cover with hex-head bolts that are secured with removable lock-tite. I was expecting to need an impact wrench to remove it, but it was not necessary. The bolts came out pretty easy.



The new stator bolts right in place, but you need to be careful about routing the wires inside the cover. If they stick out too much, the flywheel will rub on them and cut through. I cut one of the zip ties off the new stator to better align the wire to the grommet. The stock stator has a metal tab that keeps the wires away, the new stator does not. You can see the stock stator tab sticking out in the photo below. In the photo at the top you can see the ESG950 does not have anything like this.



The stock rubber grommet does work, although the new wires have a bit thicker of a jacket so the grommet sticks out a bit before getting squashed by putting the cover back on. Perhaps this will make for an even better seal around the wires, I'll see. The grommets that come with the ESG950 do not work on the LC4.



Don't forget to put the wires through the grommet before putting any connectors on them, or you won't get them through the grommet. I used plain old bullet connectors to make the connection from the new stator to the old stator wire and connector because I wasn't able to find a good quality 3-wire waterproof connector. You can solder them, but that's not a good idea until you know for sure which wire is which.



Once the engine side cover is bolted back in place, run the wire along where the original wire was, under the starter and up along the back of the cylinder head.



The documentation from Electrex says that the 3 stator wires are all the same, and can be connected in any order. I found that this is not true, at least on an LC4. The stator is 3-phase AC, so all three leads do produce the same power pulses, just at different times (or so it seems). The stock stator connector has two of the 3 stator wires coming back out of the connector and going into a second connector. Looking at the wiring diagram, those two wires go to the CDI. You can see the stator connector in the photo below, and it's hard to see, but two of the wires that go into the connector come back out and go to the connector that feeds the CDI.



Naturally, my first try did not result in the correct 2 wires going to the CDI and the bike would not run. A couple more tries changing the 3 wires around and it fired right up. I don't know of any other way to find the correct wires than trial and error since the new stator wires are all the same color. You may be able to compare the coils on the new and old stators and figure out which wires are in the same position on the stator, but I didn't feel like draining the oil back out to check, and the stock wires are difficult to follow in the stator. I tried all 6 possible combinations of connecting the 3 stator wires for fun, and 2 of them worked, the other 4 did not. So you have roughly a 33% chance of getting it right the first time.

At this point I thought I was done, but since I was the gunea pig on this one, I was wrong.. After a ride or two, I noticed that the battery was not charging. I was originally told the stock regulator/rectifier could handle the increased output of the ESG950, but this was the only culprit after some extensive testing. So, some UPS business and a few months later, the news was that the testing Electrosport performed on my stock regulator/rectifier revealed that it indeed was not capable of handling the increased output. Apparently, it works for a short period, and then the voltage drops as it becomes overloaded. Not wanting to throw in the towel being so close to the goal, I ordered an Electrosport regulator/rectifier, part number ESR100 which they said would handle the output of the ESG950. They currently list the ESR100 at $127.50 shipped (but I also see it as $99.00 in a list, so best to check with them; their prices seem to have gone down lately). You can find it here


Just as with the stator, the ESR100 was not originally designed for the LC4, so the connectors on it do not bold right into the LC4 electrical system. So, once again, you'll need to cut the connectors off the original regulator, with plenty of wire, and connect the connector to the ESR100.




The wires get run under the right side panel along the same path as the originals. You'll have to cut a few of the zip ties that hold the wires, and put some new ones on.



At this point it's worth noting that one of the regulator connectors connects to the stator connector. If you wanted to, you could use your own wire and spare your original components wires from hacking. However, you would still have to figure out a way to connect the correct stator wires to the CDI connector. Since I didn't know I needed a new regulator when I put the stator in, I didn't have an opportunity to try it this way.

There is one last problem to solve. Again, since the ESR100 was not designed specifically for the LC4, the bolt holes on it are too deep for the studs on the battery hold-down plate. The stock regulator has recessed panels that allow the bolts to fit down on the studs.



A large portion of the ESR100 is aluminum casing. The electronics are confined to a small square visible on the underside. So, I used a 5 flute, 5/8" countersink bit and a drill to remove enough of the aluminum around the bolt holes to allow the stock nuts to fit down onto the studs. A regular drill bit does not work because it tries to grab too much material from the bolt slots.



After the stud slots are enlarged, the stock nuts can be used to secure the regulator.



When you're done, the final product should look pretty much like it did before you started. If it looks significantly different, you may have done something wrong.



So, after all this, how does it work? Like I said before, I haven't been able to put miles on it yet because of the ridiculous weather here. But from a standstill, with the new stator powering the 70 watt bulbs, it cuts a large, very bright white hole in the dark. Very nice and noticeable improvement. Things don't dim as much as they did at idle any more, and it doesn't take as much RPM to bring everything to full brightness either - just off idle and everything seems to be at full brightness. Of course, these are all subjective measurements; I didn't take any flux measurements for before and after comparisons, and I didn't carefully note stock electrical output at any particular RPM.

Overall, my opinion is that it is a worth-while upgrade if you are, or want to run higher wattage bulbs, additional lighting, heated accessories, or everything. I like knowing that I'm not going to push the electrical system to its limit constantly now. For anyone doing this after me, it's an under $300 upgrade, along with some time. Not the cheapest upgrade, but then the Adventure isn't the cheapest bike either. Around $300 for a minimum increase of 50 watts was good enough for me to try it, and I think it's going to accomplish what I set out to do. I hope someone finds this helpful. I will post some updates as the weather gets better and I have some time to evaluate the upgrade further.

One last disclaimer, I don't work for Electrosport and have no interest in them, financial or otherwise. I was just happy there was someone out there willing to work with me to do what I wanted. Everything here is my experience with these products, and as I said, I have not done extensive testing yet, so it goes without saying that you'll be attempting this at your own risk.

Justin
__________________
2004 KTM 950A
2010 Berg 390 (Tagged)

Religions change; beer and wine remain. Harvey Allen
KayaKTM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2007, 06:48 PM   #64
dirty_sanchez
Dirty_Sanchez
 
dirty_sanchez's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2006
Location: Louisiana, Baton Rouge
Oddometer: 2,660
Right click on the big red X then cut and paste into your browser.

Dirty
__________________
No, really, the mustache means I love you.
dirty_sanchez is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2007, 05:54 PM   #65
Earthscape
Have ya got a helmut?
 
Earthscape's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Western Mass
Oddometer: 301
I need to stop by here more often. I'm here now, so here's an update.

Since the replacement regulator went in, everything has worked fine. I have put several hundred miles on it since then. I know, not nearly enough, but I have to split my riding time between several bikes.
I think the original ESR100 failure was indeed a fluke - manufacturing defect.
Now that I have someone to ride with who has a similar bike (brother bought a KLR650 ), I'll be riding the 640 more often.

I know it's hard to quantify how many miles you need to feel that a system of parts is reliable, but at this point I really do think the first ESR100 failure was just a manufacturing defect. I'll update if anything breaks, but until then each individual will have to decide whether they think the experience I have so far is enough for them to feel confident in the upgrade. I'd like to hear if anyone else has tried this, and how it's worked out for them so far.

Go forth to burn bright holes in the night, and keepeth thou torso and hands warm!
Earthscape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2007, 08:45 PM   #66
meat popsicle
Ignostic
 
meat popsicle's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Circumlocution Office of Little Dorrit
Oddometer: 14,132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earthscape
...

I know it's hard to quantify how many miles you need to feel that a system of parts is reliable, ...
Hey E,

Well I too am a beta tester for novel equipment on an LC4, although its not anywhere near as complex a piece of work as yours. It is a Odyssey battery, that because of its form factor did not fit into the LC4 well, so I had to do some modifications. Minor you ask? I have no idea, because I am no systems engineer, but I did change the system.

So I worry, but for the past few K it has been OK to my knowledge - meaning I have no idea if my modifications are having some non-catastrophic impact on related components. etc. etc. etc. I am hoping to get through the battery's life so I can see how long this highly regarded battery fares, but I will never have the knowledge or will to test everything on the bike that probably would be tested by an engineering group to ensure the changes were not detrimental to the system.

My statement felt like it came outa my ass, but I hope it helps.
__________________
Kronreif Trunkenpolz Mattighofen LC4 640

Its not so much staying alive; its staying human that counts.
meat popsicle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2007, 10:20 AM   #67
KayaKTM
Day trippin'
 
KayaKTM's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Western NC
Oddometer: 405
upgrade completed

well i've done the upgrade with the help of Earthscape and my mechanic. as you may (or may not remember) i had my old model 4 piece flywheel go destroying my stator/flywheel assembly. since i was already going to be out $300 for parts i decided to do the upgrade b/c it was only gonna cost $600 parts and labor (my brother works for Motosport outlet in OR so he got me the parts).

i only have about 100 miles on the bike so far but things seem to be working fine. no hickups or glitches in the process so far either. the headlight is at full bright at idle and you can't even tell if the bike is revving or not it's so bright.

the regulator ESR100 from Electrosport said "Univeral Suzuki" on it but i'm still not sure what model it was for. i got the stator from ricky stator and it was for a Raptor 660 i believe model years 2001-2006 but i wouldn't swear to that.

all in all it seems an easy upgrade and worth the $$$ for anyone that wants to run heated grips and headlights. i'll report more after i've got another 1K-2K miles on it.
KayaKTM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earthscape
I need to stop by here more often. I'm here now, so here's an update.

Since the replacement regulator went in, everything has worked fine. I have put several hundred miles on it since then. I know, not nearly enough, but I have to split my riding time between several bikes.
I think the original ESR100 failure was indeed a fluke - manufacturing defect.
Now that I have someone to ride with who has a similar bike (brother bought a KLR650 ), I'll be riding the 640 more often.

I know it's hard to quantify how many miles you need to feel that a system of parts is reliable, but at this point I really do think the first ESR100 failure was just a manufacturing defect. I'll update if anything breaks, but until then each individual will have to decide whether they think the experience I have so far is enough for them to feel confident in the upgrade. I'd like to hear if anyone else has tried this, and how it's worked out for them so far.

Go forth to burn bright holes in the night, and keepeth thou torso and hands warm!
__________________
2004 KTM 950A
2010 Berg 390 (Tagged)

Religions change; beer and wine remain. Harvey Allen

KayaKTM screwed with this post 10-29-2007 at 07:26 AM
KayaKTM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2007, 06:53 PM   #68
jamesdemien
Studly Adventurer
 
jamesdemien's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: St. Louis
Oddometer: 595
Is this 300 watt one the same size... look at the 660 Grizzly

I want to run my aerostich jacket...
__________________
If you don't fall you're not going fast enough?
Gateway BMW Motorcycles St. Louis | Vimeo
jamesdemien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2007, 09:41 PM   #69
mikeprod92211
Desert Rat
 
mikeprod92211's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2004
Oddometer: 591
Airhead, I also have a 2000 LC4E and the stock light sucked.
I bought from the KTM dealer a 2007 headlight for the 525 street legal, fluted lens.
It throws a much better light pattern with sharper cut off. I also installed a wiring harness with relays going from the battery to the headlight. Got it from easternbeaver.com. Very reasonable prie, fit the relays behind the headlight.
Result: much better light dispersion, brighter light, and on high beam, I am not afraid to run at 60 - 70 mph.
For about 110 bucks, got a good return on my money.
Next may be a PIAA 110 watt bulb, that uses only 55 or 60 wats, but light output is equal to the 110 watt bulb.
__________________
LC4 Rider
mikeprod92211 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2007, 07:34 AM   #70
KayaKTM
Day trippin'
 
KayaKTM's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Western NC
Oddometer: 405
from looking at the part #'s it isn't the same stator. i have no idea if it is the same size physically or not having never seen one (site pic didn't come up for me).

i will say the stator/rectifier setup i have will run your stich vest, along with some heated grips AND an extra set of lights without much problem. beyond that i'm not sure but i'm willing to wager the price of the heated grips on it

hope this helps,
KayaKTM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesdemien
Is this 300 watt one the same size... look at the 660 Grizzly

I want to run my aerostich jacket...
__________________
2004 KTM 950A
2010 Berg 390 (Tagged)

Religions change; beer and wine remain. Harvey Allen
KayaKTM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2007, 08:21 AM   #71
dirty_sanchez
Dirty_Sanchez
 
dirty_sanchez's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2006
Location: Louisiana, Baton Rouge
Oddometer: 2,660
Quote:
Originally Posted by KayaKTM
from looking at the part #'s it isn't the same stator. i have no idea if it is the same size physically or not having never seen one (site pic didn't come up for me).

i will say the stator/rectifier setup i have will run your stich vest, along with some heated grips AND an extra set of lights without much problem. beyond that i'm not sure but i'm willing to wager the price of the heated grips on it

hope this helps,
KayaKTM
Kayak- I'm still curious about the stator upgrade on your LC4 now that you've got some history with the upgrade.

Any issues other than the first bum rectifier from Electrosport? Is this upgrade still a double thumbs up in your eyes?

Dirty
__________________
No, really, the mustache means I love you.
dirty_sanchez is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2007, 08:27 AM   #72
KayaKTM
Day trippin'
 
KayaKTM's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Western NC
Oddometer: 405
yes i think a good upgrade and worth the $$$.

of course if you want an LC4 that already has the upgrade done, you can find one here

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=284610

my LC4 for sale in flea market!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_sanchez
Kayak- I'm still curious about the stator upgrade on your LC4 now that you've got some history with the upgrade.

Any issues other than the first bum rectifier from Electrosport? Is this upgrade still a double thumbs up in your eyes?

Dirty
__________________
2004 KTM 950A
2010 Berg 390 (Tagged)

Religions change; beer and wine remain. Harvey Allen
KayaKTM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2008, 09:21 AM   #73
solfish
Adventurer
 
solfish's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2007
Location: Folsom, CA
Oddometer: 45
Wink Baja Designs

Has anyone tried one of these kits from Baja Designs. It's not street legal, but I bet you can make it work if you aim them like a high/low beam.
I think it would look killer.

solfish screwed with this post 12-14-2008 at 10:20 PM
solfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2008, 06:58 PM   #74
Earthscape
Have ya got a helmut?
 
Earthscape's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Western Mass
Oddometer: 301
Update

I have an update on these electrical upgrades. I know others have bought and sold their 640 Adventures just in the time that I have been testing this upgrade, but I'm into my 640 for the long haul. Wow, it'll be 10 years next June! Anyway, just recently, my second ESR100 regulator has quit. That's bad news. But I think it means that the ESG950 stator is putting out some really serious juice. I don't know either way whether the ESR100 really can't handle the output, or the ones I got had some quality control problems. The tech at Electrosport seemed very sure that it could handle the output. There is good news though. I have spoken with Electrosport again, and they took the time to explain that they have very recently redesigned their line of regulator/rectifiers with loads of improvements. The bad news (for me) is that they won't have the new ESR100 model for a few months, which means I'll miss out riding my 640 during the best time of year. I may look around for a different regulator/rectifier in the meantime, but I'm not sure I'll find anything, and I already know the stock unit does not come close to handling it.
Once you have a taste of the output of the ESG950 stator, it's completely addicting, and nearly impossible to settle for stock output again. I still have a suspicion that the ESG950 with the LC4 flywheel puts out more than in other applications.

On a related note, if anyone knows where I can get H1 headlight bulbs in the 70 to 80 watt range, that are CLEAR, no tint, no coating, no fancy garbage, please let me know. My previous source is discontinued, and I can't find them anywhere, only variously color tinted ones (I've tried some of the colored ones and I couldn't see a thing at night). I've found 100 watt clear, but I think that might overload the headlight wiring, and the 70 watt bulbs really worked well at night. I still have one 70 watt bulb, the other was burned out when the first regulator quit.

I'll post more updates as things move along with a new regulator/rectifier, though that could be a little while. Oh yes, and I know the pictures in my original post are gone - the site where they were hosted has closed. I have dial-up only right now but DSL is coming shortly. As soon as I have a better connection I'll try to fix all the pictures.
Earthscape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2008, 09:07 PM   #75
meat popsicle
Ignostic
 
meat popsicle's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Circumlocution Office of Little Dorrit
Oddometer: 14,132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earthscape
...

On a related note, if anyone knows where I can get H1 headlight bulbs in the 70 to 80 watt range, that are CLEAR, no tint, no coating, no fancy garbage, please let me know. My previous source is discontinued, and I can't find them anywhere, only variously color tinted ones (I've tried some of the colored ones and I couldn't see a thing at night). I've found 100 watt clear, but I think that might overload the headlight wiring, and the 70 watt bulbs really worked well at night. I still have one 70 watt bulb, the other was burned out when the first regulator quit.

...
Osram makes very nice bulbs. I have a pair of their Night Breaker H1s. They are only 55w, like the stock bulbs, but they put out alot more light. How? By burning brighter with the same wattage they die quicker - they don't last as long. Its a tradeoff... but I am trying them out when I start installing my headlight wiring upgrades.

I bought mine off eBay sellers; here are two with good feedback ratings:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/US-DI...spagenameZWDVW

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OSRAM...spagenameZWDVW

I have alot more info on bulbs if you are interested... good luck with the new Electrosport stuff.
__________________
Kronreif Trunkenpolz Mattighofen LC4 640

Its not so much staying alive; its staying human that counts.
meat popsicle is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 12:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014