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Old 09-25-2013, 06:10 PM   #526
dnrobertson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwoodward View Post
5. Assemble the pile of hardware it can replace in a typical installation- several relays, a PWM gear controller or two, and a bunch of fuse holders.

5a. Hook all that up to a motorcycle battery with wires going everywhere.
5b. replace with prototype unit.

I run three PWM controllers (grips, vest/jacket, LED aux lights), a dedicated GPS outlet with two inputs (one via battery, one direct, depending on what I'm doing); another dedicated outlet for tankbag / phone, a power drop for the autocom / radio, and that's usually where the frustration:farkle curve levels off for me; I can easily imagine 2-3 more depending. (HID headlights and passenger gear, seat heaters, power to topbox...)
5c. And show the COST of all the separate hardware and compare?
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Old 09-25-2013, 06:52 PM   #527
draco_1967
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The simplicity of having just this PDM is what makes me want one. I can see my current setup with wires, a fuse panel, a ground bar, a few relays, etc... and the Motobrain will clean up my setup. Many consumers might not imagine that angle without showing it to them


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Old 09-25-2013, 10:16 PM   #528
moto_dmitriy
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Maybe a Dakar/Baja sponsored team to boost exposure to those folks who don't normally go online. Are you planning on heading down to Baja with a booth maybe? or setup an example bike and roll that thing through the pits with A TON of hot girls around it and it will turn heads.
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Old 09-25-2013, 10:23 PM   #529
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Maybe a Dakar/Baja sponsored team to boost exposure to those folks who don't normally go online. Are you planning on heading down to Baja with a booth maybe? or setup an example bike and roll that thing through the pits with A TON of hot girls around it and it will turn heads.
Now THAT's a good idea.
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I used to say "one day" a lot. But then I got scared I would wait one day too long. So I am doing it all now
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Old 09-26-2013, 02:17 PM   #530
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I really dont think the problem is with presentation. Its that its a kicstarter campaign. If you had two hundred units built ready to ship the probably would be gone already. However most people dont want to fork over money for something that may not come to fruition no matter how clever the product..then there is those who will wait to the last minute to se if it looks like you will remotely make your goal before commiting. ( at least 50 %). Plus kickstarters wording on how , when, if you'll get your product or money back is kinda vague. You dont get charged if the goal isnt met. But after that its mostly a matter of trust. most people shop with a pay now get it now mentality. on I side note , I dont want to jinx you but if you dont meet funding would 400 to 450 dollars be enough to get 1 off limited production run version. I really would like to have one. Also I forgot if this was asked or not but is this canbus compatible.
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Old 09-26-2013, 03:30 PM   #531
craftycoder OP
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Feature Requested – Analog Inputs

I’ve been receiving the same feature request, over and over again. While people like the 4 digital inputs, they also want analog inputs. The difference being that the digital input can sense 12V, 0V, or no connection while the analog inputs can measure an arbitrary voltage connected to the input. This would be used to add sensors and input devices to the Motobrain to allow for enhanced programming features. Examples might include:
  • Temperature sensors to turn on cooling fans or equipment heaters
  • Light sensors to turn on/off lights automatically
  • Potentiometers (volume style knobs) to adjust PWM outputs
  • Auxiliary battery management
I’ve been experimenting with some test circuits on the bench and I have come up with something that A. fits on the board and B. is reasonably priced. It remains to be seen if I have enough RAM and FLASH memory available in the current processor to make it work, but it is now a working goal to see this function added to the Motobrain before it is shipped in April. If the challenge proves too great (meaning, I’ll need a new processor to make it work) then I will skip it, otherwise I expect to see this added to the final product. I’ve got a board drawn with 4 analog and 4 digital inputs now.

>>>Warning, tech nerd stuff below

The analog to digital converter I selected is the TI ADS1015 which is small and has some really cool features like a PGA and comparator built in. The design I’m going with is shown below. It is a zener clamped input pushed into a voltage offsetting and clamping resistor network. That signal is then used to bias a N-Channel MOSFET in it’s Ohmic region to provide a buffered signal to the ADC. I need the buffer because I want the input impedance to be very high so sensors with high output impedance can still be used effectively. As I don’t know what you, the user plans to do with this input, I think making a high impedance input is the most versatile solution here. I chose to design the FET buffer because I just don’t have room for another LMV324 op-amp on this board. Real estate is slim pickings!!! I may put the Zeners on the other side of the input resistor which is probably a good idea if I thought these could see high power & high voltage.


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Old 09-26-2013, 03:32 PM   #532
craftycoder OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satur9 View Post
Also I forgot if this was asked or not but is this canbus compatible.
No canbus stuff here. Just connect to your battery and you will have a super smart gizmo.

All y'all have some really great ideas for ways to pitch this differently. Thanks for the feedback!! Also, as you see above, I've got some other really great feedback. I think these analog sensors are going to be fricking AWESOME!
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Old 09-27-2013, 10:03 PM   #533
dwoodward
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Originally Posted by craftycoder View Post
I’ve been receiving the same feature request, over and over again. While people like the 4 digital inputs, they also want analog inputs. The difference being that the digital input can sense 12V, 0V, or no connection while the analog inputs can measure an arbitrary voltage connected to the input. This would be used to add sensors and input devices to the Motobrain to allow for enhanced programming features. Examples might include:
  • Temperature sensors to turn on cooling fans or equipment heaters
  • Light sensors to turn on/off lights automatically
  • Potentiometers (volume style knobs) to adjust PWM outputs
  • Auxiliary battery management
Yeah, analog inputs definitely make it more useful to me.
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Old 09-30-2013, 02:31 PM   #534
Dominic49
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Yeah, analog inputs definitely make it more useful to me.
waiting on analog inputs before I back it.
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Old 09-30-2013, 02:47 PM   #535
craftycoder OP
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Originally Posted by Dominic49 View Post
waiting on analog inputs before I back it.
I'm not sure what you waiting on. Nothing is going to change between now and October 10th. If you want in, you just have to take the plunge. I've already said I will do my best to see that they make it in. If it requires a complete redesign I won't do it, otherwise it will be in.
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Old 09-30-2013, 03:02 PM   #536
dwoodward
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Originally Posted by Dominic49 View Post
waiting on analog inputs before I back it.
Dare I ask: What, explicitly, do you want analog inputs for? I can think of some fun things to do with them, but most of them I can realistically do w/o by using the features already present (use an input to step a PWM up/down).
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Old 09-30-2013, 07:07 PM   #537
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Dare I ask: What, explicitly, do you want analog inputs for? I can think of some fun things to do with them, but most of them I can realistically do w/o by using the features already present (use an input to step a PWM up/down).
I'd mainly be looking for a cheaper alternative to the Motec PDM I've used in the racing car world.

I don't specifically need analog in but I do like the option (fan can be actuated with thermal switch no big need for analog). Maybe even a serial com would be nice.
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Old 09-30-2013, 07:43 PM   #538
craftycoder OP
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Originally Posted by Dominic49 View Post
I'd mainly be looking for a cheaper alternative to the Motec PDM I've used in the racing car world.

I don't specifically need analog in but I do like the option (fan can be actuated with thermal switch no big need for analog). Maybe even a serial com would be nice.
The prototype PCB coming in the mail will have circuitry on it to test both analog input and serial com. The current digital inputs as implemented are not fast enough to do serial com (they are setup to debounce in the 10s of mS which is too slow for communication). I've got an idea on the new board which may allow the new system to implement a custom one wire interface. Serial com won't be of any value to you, but it will allow me to make interesting add on devices for the PDU in the future should I come up with any good ideas. I've had this idea a long time so it is funny that you mentioned it. If the analog inputs work as expected I will decide if they can replace the digital inputs completely without sacrificing functionality. If they can, I'll dump the digital inputs and make the analog ones configurable as analog or digital and feature wise we will be done. The rest of the work will go into finalizing the physical layout of the wiring you interact with and working on procurement and manufacturing. Of course, that all is predicated on finding 200 willing participants to join me on this adventure.
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Old 09-30-2013, 09:02 PM   #539
rustbucket
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I'm following this gadget with great interest, but it's only academic as I really don't need any capabilities I can't put together with a couple of fuses and a relay or two.

I feel obligated to be the lone voice in the wild, though: I don't think people pay for features, they pay for simplicity. I really think you've achieved the capabilities (and more!) you need. What you need to do is figure out the message that will get the guy farkling his GS to want one. Those are the cats who spend the bucks... I think you could skip discussion of all the (extremely cool) features and point out the reliability solid state, and the ease of troubleshooting. The enthusiasts should have documentation for all the cool stuff, but they shouldn't be your core market. Don't sell to you, don't sell to me, seller to the average rider adding fancy toys. You've got a compelling use case for them, and you and I and all the other nerds can benefit from the volume they create ;).

This is, of course, IMHO, YMMV, and totally without any small business, professional electronics or motorsports sales knowledge.
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Old 09-30-2013, 11:03 PM   #540
craftycoder OP
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Your advice is sound once I am in a sales mode. I do not see the kickstarter as a sales exercise. 200 units is nothing. Making 200 of these at a time is how I can ensure my family goes hungry. The kickstarter is about finding 200 willing participants to be the first people to try it out. With 200 happy users out there, it is easier to get financing to build 1000 units and to develop a marketing strategy to sell them. If I need to boot strap this, I could spend a couple years and never earn a nickel because these are unaffordable to make in small quantities and what they are worth to you and how much they cost me are unrelated numbers. i cannot raise the price because they cost me more, I would just need to reduce my margin. The kickstarter, which is aiming for geeks rather than farklers as you observed, provides me confidence to go big or will if it succeeds and the pdu is well received.


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I'm following this gadget with great interest, but it's only academic as I really don't need any capabilities I can't put together with a couple of fuses and a relay or two.

I feel obligated to be the lone voice in the wild, though: I don't think people pay for features, they pay for simplicity. I really think you've achieved the capabilities (and more!) you need. What you need to do is figure out the message that will get the guy farkling his GS to want one. Those are the cats who spend the bucks... I think you could skip discussion of all the (extremely cool) features and point out the reliability solid state, and the ease of troubleshooting. The enthusiasts should have documentation for all the cool stuff, but they shouldn't be your core market. Don't sell to you, don't sell to me, seller to the average rider adding fancy toys. You've got a compelling use case for them, and you and I and all the other nerds can benefit from the volume they create ;).

This is, of course, IMHO, YMMV, and totally without any small business, professional electronics or motorsports sales knowledge.
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