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Old 11-13-2013, 07:50 AM   #586
craftycoder OP
Motobrain PDU
 
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I wrapped up the important parts of the analog input software last night. I am pleased with everything. It's always tough to design a UI that can provide good situational awareness at a glance and adding analog inputs made that an even harder proposition. I think the little faux knobs I am rendering do the business.

Here is a video showing the new iOS 7 UI and the new software to control the analog inputs.


craftycoder screwed with this post 11-13-2013 at 07:57 AM
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Old 11-14-2013, 07:34 AM   #587
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I received the thermal imaging camera yesterday and went about doing my first thermal survey of the Motobrain this morning. In this test, I let the Motobrain draw about 40A for an hour and then took some thermal photos of it. What I found surprised me. I assumed the warmest part of the circuit would be the switching transistors that all the current is flowing through. This is not the case however. It turns out the hottest part of the circuit are the MOSFET drivers which use a charge pump to create 20V+ and are used to turn the MOSFETs on and off. After an hour the drivers are running at about 37C as you can tell from the top photo below (the cross hair is on the driver chip). The second photo shows the bottom of the power board which is the board that has all the current flowing through it. The warmest part of it is <32C after an hour (this board is thermally coupled on both sides so the top and bottom should be roughly the same temp). That is not very exciting at all. That is hardly even warm. Great news for Motobrain! The third photo shows Motobrain against the backdrop of the test jig. It is the coolest thing in the frame essentially. I promise, all the 40A of current driving those loads in the background are running through the Motobrain but its impedance is so darn low it doesn't break a sweat.

FLIR0011

FLIR0013

FLIR0010

65957099-E39B-49BC-BE3B-586903622595[1]
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Old 11-15-2013, 04:16 AM   #588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craftycoder View Post
I received the thermal imaging camera yesterday and went about doing my first thermal survey of the Motobrain this morning. In this test, I let the Motobrain draw about 40A for an hour and then took some thermal photos of it. What I found surprised me. I assumed the warmest part of the circuit would be the switching transistors that all the current is flowing through. This is not the case however. It turns out the hottest part of the circuit are the MOSFET drivers which use a charge pump to create 20V+ and are used to turn the MOSFETs on and off. After an hour the drivers are running at about 37C as you can tell from the top photo below (the cross hair is on the driver chip). The second photo shows the bottom of the power board which is the board that has all the current flowing through it. The warmest part of it is <32C after an hour (this board is thermally coupled on both sides so the top and bottom should be roughly the same temp). That is not very exciting at all. That is hardly even warm. Great news for Motobrain! The third photo shows Motobrain against the backdrop of the test jig. It is the coolest thing in the frame essentially. I promise, all the 40A of current driving those loads in the background are running through the Motobrain but its impedance is so darn low it doesn't break a sweat.

FLIR0011

FLIR0013

FLIR0010

65957099-E39B-49BC-BE3B-586903622595[1]
Did you calibrate for the emisitivy?
That will change your reading some.

Transcribed by gnomes directly from my thoughts.
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Old 11-15-2013, 05:46 AM   #589
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Originally Posted by tommu56 View Post
Did you calibrate for the emisitivy?
That will change your reading some.
It is calibrated to a black body as is typical for "low cost" TICs. That hardly matters though. I have multiple ways to measure temp and the TIC is good at showing relative temps excepting those surfaces with very low ε (those dark rectangles in the second photo being such an example). The TIC allows me to do a fast survey of temps and then I can use thermocouples and bandgap diodes to back up the TIC data. I have done this and all the measurements are in the same ballpark. The Motobrain radio will begin to have problems above 85C and the power devices will begin to have serious current capacity issues above 125C. In essence, these first measurements show that we are not having any issues at 40% nominal current capacity. I've also tested at 55% nominal capacity with similar positive outcomes though both tests destroyed the loads used for testing. I need to build a sturdier test rig because Motobrain is far too beefy for the cheesy Amazon.com resistors I'm throwing at it.
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Old 11-15-2013, 05:54 AM   #590
bikyto
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Given the size of the device and the spare room I have on the bike, the installation location would be right above the engine on a ktm 990.
how would that affect, the operational running temp?

Thank you much in advance awesome product
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Old 11-15-2013, 06:08 AM   #591
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Originally Posted by bikyto View Post
Given the size of the device and the spare room I have on the bike, the installation location would be right above the engine on a ktm 990.
how would that affect, the operational running temp?

Thank you much in advance awesome product
I would endeavor to place this away from the engine. It is completely waterproof, so you can put it anywhere. It's a small device, a little taller than a deck of cards and roughly the same area. I think you can find lots of places to put it other than the one spot where you ought not stick it.
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Old 11-15-2013, 06:19 AM   #592
bikyto
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Originally Posted by craftycoder View Post
I would endeavor to place this away from the engine. It is completely waterproof, so you can put it anywhere. It's a small device, a little taller than a deck of cards and roughly the same area. I think you can find lots of places to put it other than the one spot where you ought not stick it.
Thank you for the quick reply
the "glove box" on the 990s is above the air box which is above the engine
I currently have an fz1 which is already wired hence impractical for re wiring and in the field access
thanks again though
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Old 11-15-2013, 06:24 AM   #593
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If it is above the airbox then I assume it is well insulated from the engine. My gut feeling is that having ambient above 60C would be a bad thing. I have not done testing to confirm where things fail yet. I will do so before I make them available.

Motobrain has no user serviceable parts so it doesn't need to be accessible in the field. There is nothing to access.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bikyto View Post
Thank you for the quick reply
the "glove box" on the 990s is above the air box which is above the engine
I currently have an fz1 which is already wired hence impractical for re wiring and in the field access
thanks again though
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Old 11-15-2013, 06:35 AM   #594
bikyto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craftycoder View Post
If it is above the airbox then I assume it is well insulated from the engine. My gut feeling is that having ambient above 60C would be a bad thing. I have not done testing to confirm where things fail yet. I will do so before I make them available.

Motobrain has no user serviceable parts so it doesn't need to be accessible in the field. There is nothing to access.
Re wiring after a spill offroad is essential. It needs to be in a place that is easy to access and possibly short circuit if necessary.
Just an opinion from someone who relies on one self most often in the middle of nowhere
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Old 11-15-2013, 06:37 AM   #595
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And the insulation is left to be desired on these big KTMs. Fwiw.

Again, I love your product. Thanks again.
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Old 11-15-2013, 06:49 AM   #596
craftycoder OP
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Re wiring after a spill offroad is essential. It needs to be in a place that is easy to access and possibly short circuit if necessary.
Just an opinion from someone who relies on one self most often in the middle of nowhere
I would argue that one of the nice benefits of Motobrain is that you can stick it in a position that wouldn't place a fuse block because you don't need to be able to get to it in a hurry. Motobrain will allow you to identify a bad load and virtually rewire around it from your phone. We are talking about a motorcycle here, so it is never going to be very difficult to get to if physical access is necessary for some reason. I understand where you are coming from, I too am concerned about such things. Motobrain will take a little while to adjust behaviors but its designed to durable and as Ron Popeil says "Set it and forget it!"
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Old 11-15-2013, 11:34 AM   #597
bikyto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craftycoder View Post
I would argue that one of the nice benefits of Motobrain is that you can stick it in a position that wouldn't place a fuse block because you don't need to be able to get to it in a hurry. Motobrain will allow you to identify a bad load and virtually rewire around it from your phone. We are talking about a motorcycle here, so it is never going to be very difficult to get to if physical access is necessary for some reason. I understand where you are coming from, I too am concerned about such things. Motobrain will take a little while to adjust behaviors but its designed to durable and as Ron Popeil says "Set it and forget it!"
Lots of food for thoughts here. Thank you.

I understand that nothing is fool proof yet what is the expected life expectancy of your unit in hot, loaded, wet and miserable conditions
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Old 11-15-2013, 11:40 AM   #598
craftycoder OP
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Originally Posted by bikyto View Post
Lots of food for thoughts here. Thank you.

I understand that nothing is fool proof yet what is the expected life expectancy of your unit in hot, loaded, wet and miserable conditions
It will be impervious to wet and grime. I don't know yet how it will fail in heat. Below 125C I think it will last a long a time. I won't operate well above 100C but it should survive. I need to test it to failure before I have answers though. My expectation is that it will likely just keep on keeping on. When its is hot it will lose its current capacity which should clue you into the problem but I don't think it will actually break. It's only a guess though. I'll know more soon. I just ordered a new testing tool 30 minutes ago.

Something like this. It's a 2500W load to throw current into.
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Old 11-16-2013, 03:36 AM   #599
bikyto
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The stock air box temp on a ktm990 runs in the 115-128 range under normal conditions.
I do not have the oem airbox on mine as it's in the way of everything engine related. TB, TPS and overall dust riding conditions are a nightmare unless you have a full time mechanic waiting for you at night. But that's just an opinion.

So, the glove box should run in the high 90f on the back side (where all the wires come together from the four corners of the bike) as long as the bike is moving.

Maybe that will trigger some other thoughts from the community.
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bikyto screwed with this post 11-16-2013 at 05:05 AM Reason: change to correct temp unit
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Old 11-16-2013, 04:58 AM   #600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bikyto View Post
The stock air box temp on a ktm990 runs in the 115-128 range under normal conditions.
I do not have the oem airbox on mine as it's in the way of everything engine related. TB, TPS and overall dust riding conditions are a nightmare unless you have a full time mechanic waiting for you at night. But that's just an opinion.

So, the glove box should run in the high 90c on the back side (where all the wires come together from the four corners of the bike) as long as the bike is moving.

Maybe that will trigger some other thoughts from the community.
Surely you're talking Fahrenheit not Centigrade, unless you can boil soup in your glovebox?
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