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Old 05-15-2014, 05:26 PM   #946
Gany
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I have a layout idea that builds on dwoodwards... Might take some time to mock it up. Are you preferring a portrait layout or open to a landscape one? Or both?
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Old 05-15-2014, 06:22 PM   #947
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I think it may be a mistake to consider any user interface interaction while the motorcycle is moving. I would inhibit any use of the interface while bike/vehicle is moving just from a liability point of view.

It seems to me that to be successful in the market place, the device needs to be usable without programming. The device should be shipped with pre programmed standard circuits which people are likely to buy the device for. You might consider a web browser interface (maybe using chrome) together with an app to run in the browser which would interact with the device from a pc/mac/ios/android device and provide a repository of circuits and their corresponding MotoBrain circuit controller which could be down loaded to the MotoBrain so that users won't have to interact with the device to to set it up.

Forcing the user to use a phone device to do the setup may actually be a detriment to sales when you consider the total market place where you want to place devices. Having to program the device through the slickest user interface will likely not be successful in the market place as most customers are not programmers. The direction you've started with appeals to the geek biker/4w drive/etc. market place, but that is just a tiny fraction of the potential market place for the device and maybe not a big enough market for MotoBrain to be successful. I think the kickstarter experience may confirm what I'm suggesting.
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Old 05-16-2014, 05:51 AM   #948
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Originally Posted by phreakingeek View Post
since i am in the market for a new fuse block...my question is "do i buy another Eastern Beaver unit" or will this hit the streets in the next few months?
I will have a few dozen units for ADVers within a couple months if my Asian test orders get fulfilled. YMMV
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Old 05-16-2014, 05:54 AM   #949
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gany View Post
I have a layout idea that builds on dwoodwards... Might take some time to mock it up. Are you preferring a portrait layout or open to a landscape one? Or both?
dwoodwards ideally it would work for both orientations, but the Motobrain itself is landscape so we may find a limitation there for practical reasons. Whatever works.
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Old 05-16-2014, 06:01 AM   #950
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtJack View Post
Forcing the user to use a phone device to do the setup may actually be a detriment to sales when you consider the total market place where you want to place devices.


I was very eager to order the motobrain until I started thinking about how I'm going to use it on the bike. In order to control the output to my heated vest, auxiliary lights, turn the power to my radar locator on / off, etc.. I'd have to have my phone mounted to the bars and be wearing touch screen compatible riding gloves or glove tips. I don't want to mount my phone on the bars, so I'm using a Fuzeblock for now while I watch what the final product will look like.
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Old 05-16-2014, 06:18 AM   #951
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GB View Post


I was very eager to order the motobrain until I started thinking about how I'm going to use it on the bike. In order to control the output to my heated vest, auxiliary lights, turn the power to my radar locator on / off, etc.. I'd have to have my phone mounted to the bars and be wearing touch screen compatible riding gloves or glove tips. I don't want to mount my phone on the bars, so I'm using a Fuzeblock for now while I watch what the final product will look like.
If I understand this device correctly with the inclusion of Analog and Digital inputs now you can control almost anything.

The cool thing is that you can use the same input (analog input) to control multiple outputs and change that (with the app) at anytime.

For example using an analog input (knob) you could set the level of the aux lights when on low-beam and then use a digital input (high beam trigger) to turn the lights on full on high beam. Lets assume you then change your mind and want to set the level of the lights to say 30% on low-beam and use the analog input to control your heated gear instead then you don't need to rewire a thing, you can reconfigure it all with the app.
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Old 05-16-2014, 06:37 AM   #952
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtJack View Post
I think it may be a mistake to consider any user interface interaction while the motorcycle is moving. I would inhibit any use of the interface while bike/vehicle is moving just from a liability point of view.
There are no good reasons for a rider/driver to be fucking with Motobrain software on the move. Disabling it goes too far though. A passenger may want to use it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtJack View Post
It seems to me that to be successful in the market place, the device needs to be usable without programming. The device should be shipped with pre programmed standard circuits which people are likely to buy the device for. You might consider a web browser interface (maybe using chrome) together with an app to run in the browser which would interact with the device from a pc/mac/ios/android device and provide a repository of circuits and their corresponding MotoBrain circuit controller which could be down loaded to the MotoBrain so that users won't have to interact with the device to to set it up.
Disagree. The differentiation of this device is that it is a customizable alternative to "dumb" power distribution units. I'm not trying to compete with dumb units (and cannot because of price). I'm trying to compete for customers who are tired of having to work so hard to make dumb units work for their needs and end up spending a fortune of little doodads to get done what they want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtJack View Post
Forcing the user to use a phone device to do the setup may actually be a detriment to sales when you consider the total market place where you want to place devices. Having to program the device through the slickest user interface will likely not be successful in the market place as most customers are not programmers. The direction you've started with appeals to the geek biker/4w drive/etc. market place, but that is just a tiny fraction of the potential market place for the device and maybe not a big enough market for MotoBrain to be successful. I think the kickstarter experience may confirm what I'm suggesting.
  1. The market segment being targeted have smartphones. They are people who own discretionary vehicles. No one is putting this in their Camry, it is going in their show car, race car, 4x4, snow mobile, motorcycle, rv, or boat. This means they have extra money and spend it on expensive toys (our wives are pretty much right when they say our motorcycles are toys). If the user is not tech savvy enough to have a smartphone I seriously doubt their willingness to accept this high tech gadget.
  2. Smartphone users are infinitesimally more likely to be programmers than the public at large. This project could fail for lots of reasons, but the fact that it is programmed via a smartphone won't be one of them. Frankly, I expect a ton of installations will be done professionally and the user may never bother to install the Motobrain software at all. The telemetry the average consumer will now have access to because of Motobrain is only really handy when something is broken. It will make diagnosing problems easier. People who have profession installation of stuff done don't tend to fix their problems themselves either so they don't even need to know about Motobrain. Their mechanic just chooses it because it reduces installation times and labor costs because this device removes tons of single purpose electronic gizmos from installations.
  3. This is a set it up and forget it type of device. The "game changing" functionality is not smartphone software, it is the customization the Motobrain allows that requires a complicated user interface to program. The type of computer used to connect to it is irrelevant. The more important thing to do is pick a ubiquitous type of computer. Smartphones sales are growing way faster than PC sales. Smartphones & tablets are pretty clearly the computer of the future.
  4. There is no "answer" as to why the kickstarter failed. Certainly I could have done a better job advertising it, no doubt. Based on my experience with iPhone-centric Kickstarters doing very well, I focused the pitch on the smartphone interactivity. As I just explained that is not the real value proposition. I gambled that rather than try to explain the real value proposition I could instead rely on people's irrational zeal for all things Apple to make 200 sales. I wanted a real live user test group and that seemed like a good way to make it happen. It didn't work. Maybe it didn't work because of my marketing mistakes. Maybe it didn't work because, like so many entrepreneurs before me, my idea is stupid and will never succeed in the marketplace.
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Old 05-16-2014, 07:52 AM   #953
Texcollect
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One of the value proposition I see here is that everything wires back to a single point. I don't have wires going all over the bike from the headlight to the light controller, from the lights to the relay switched input from the tail light to the relay to switch the power.

I am about to start farkling my new (to me) 2007 FJR and something like this would make it so easy !!

Keep up the good work and I hope I have the spare cash to buy one when the initial batch are available.
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Old 05-16-2014, 08:20 AM   #954
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texcollect View Post
If I understand this device correctly with the inclusion of Analog and Digital inputs now you can control almost anything.

The cool thing is that you can use the same input (analog input) to control multiple outputs and change that (with the app) at anytime.

For example using an analog input (knob) you could set the level of the aux lights when on low-beam and then use a digital input (high beam trigger) to turn the lights on full on high beam. Lets assume you then change your mind and want to set the level of the lights to say 30% on low-beam and use the analog input to control your heated gear instead then you don't need to rewire a thing, you can reconfigure it all with the app.
Exactly correct. GB, the phone is really for programming the device only.
This basic misconception is why I "feel" like the kickstarter failed. This product is so different from anything on the market that people cannot seem to wrap their heads around it and keep drawing the same conclusion that the phone is necessary for operation.
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Old 05-16-2014, 08:26 AM   #955
DirtJack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craftycoder View Post
  1. The market segment being targeted have smartphones. They are people who own discretionary vehicles. No one is putting this in their Camry, it is going in their show car, race car, 4x4, snow mobile, motorcycle, rv, or boat. This means they have extra money and spend it on expensive toys (our wives are pretty much right when they say our motorcycles are toys). If the user is not tech savvy enough to have a smartphone I seriously doubt their willingness to accept this high tech gadget.
  2. Smartphone users are infinitesimally more likely to be programmers than the public at large. This project could fail for lots of reasons, but the fact that it is programmed via a smartphone won't be one of them. Frankly, I expect a ton of installations will be done professionally and the user may never bother to install the Motobrain software at all. The telemetry the average consumer will now have access to because of Motobrain is only really handy when something is broken. It will make diagnosing problems easier. People who have profession installation of stuff done don't tend to fix their problems themselves either so they don't even need to know about Motobrain. Their mechanic just chooses it because it reduces installation times and labor costs because this device removes tons of single purpose electronic gizmos from installations.
  3. This is a set it up and forget it type of device. The "game changing" functionality is not smartphone software, it is the customization the Motobrain allows that requires a complicated user interface to program. The type of computer used to connect to it is irrelevant. The more important thing to do is pick a ubiquitous type of computer. Smartphones sales are growing way faster than PC sales. Smartphones & tablets are pretty clearly the computer of the future.
  4. There is no "answer" as to why the kickstarter failed. Certainly I could have done a better job advertising it, no doubt. Based on my experience with iPhone-centric Kickstarters doing very well, I focused the pitch on the smartphone interactivity. As I just explained that is not the real value proposition. I gambled that rather than try to explain the real value proposition I could instead rely on people's irrational zeal for all things Apple to make 200 sales. I wanted a real live user test group and that seemed like a good way to make it happen. It didn't work. Maybe it didn't work because of my marketing mistakes. Maybe it didn't work because, like so many entrepreneurs before me, my idea is stupid and will never succeed in the marketplace.
Notice I was careful to not say that the programmability should be removed or not improved, but rather it should be shipped with preprogrammed circuit controls which customers can attach to and use with no additional programming and that a variety of downloadable circuit controls should be available to facilitate use of the device without programming beyond the ones shipped in the device.

Finally, IMO, you should have a plan for handling lawsuits from the estates of users who insisted on using the programming interface while the vehicle is in motion.

Just trying to give some input as you requested. I've supported your project from the beginning and was part of the Kickstarter group. Only a small fraction of smart phone users are programmers (lookup how many iPhones Apple sold last quarter -- they are a smaller player in the smartphone market place); why not market to the much larger non programming smart phone base as well as the programmers?
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DirtJack screwed with this post 05-16-2014 at 08:35 AM
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Old 05-16-2014, 08:43 AM   #956
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It's not programming, it's configuration.

If someone can take the panels off their bike... chase, cut and crimp wires... own and use a smart phone... envision what different systems/inputs/outputs they want interacting... then they will be able to "configure" the MB with their smartphone.







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Old 05-16-2014, 08:46 AM   #957
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DirtJack, I'm thinking that those people who will benefit from what you are describing are not going to be the early adopters of this product. It will be outside their comfort zone and they won't come to it until a trusted friend convinces them and helps them through the process. At which point it isn't necessary anyway. I don't have the budget to convince people who don't understand Motobrain to buy it. I'm not worried about them at the moment. If I make a dent in the early adopter crowd, then I'll shift focus to Luddites among us.

As for liability, I don't think courts hold mascara companies responsible for accidents caused by women who are putting it on in the car. I don't think they are going to hold me responsible either. Is the maker of Angry Birds responsible if someone is playing while driving? All I can do it get insurance and hope for the best. I do not expect to make an "in motion" UI though. I've made the creation of tactile interfaces easy exactly so the phone can stay in your pocket.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtJack View Post
Notice I was careful to not say that the programmability should be removed or not improved, but rather it should be shipped with preprogrammed circuit controls which customers can attach to and use with no additional programming and that a variety of downloadable circuit controls should be available to facilitate use of the device without programming beyond the ones shipped in the device.

Finally, IMO, you should have a plan for handling lawsuits from the estates of users who insisted on using the programming interface while the vehicle is in motion.
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Old 05-16-2014, 08:48 AM   #958
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emerson.biguns View Post
It's not programming, it's configuration.

If someone can take the panels off their bike... chase, cut and crimp wires... own and use a smart phone... envision what different systems/inputs/outputs they want interacting... then they will be able to "configure" the MB with their smartphone.

.
This comes from a man who has actually seen Motobrain. He lent me his garage to install it on a bike I keep in sunny Arizona. Thanks again for that and all your other generosity and good counsel.
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Old 05-16-2014, 09:33 AM   #959
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Keep in mind, the closest competitor to MotoBrain I can think of currently appears to require dragging a Windows PC out to the installation.

Although backing up and restoring config files, and an online config wizard, might be usable steps forward. As for my UI concept- make the buttons square; rotate text & icons to match orientation. Done.
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Old 05-16-2014, 09:46 AM   #960
codyh
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I like dwoodwards' layout and short push to on/off toggle and long-push to config idea. IMO, the screen is too busy with the small text and sliders as currently configured.

A big selling point for me would be if the software had memory settings for different configurations, so that the device could be quickly adapted for multiple projects. I think your ideas are awesome, but it's tough to justify the price for one bike when I'm most likely just going to be wiring up some fog lights and a heated grips. I realize that that is probably not your target application, but if I could swap the Motobrain from one bike to another it's value increases exponentially.
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