$2000 spent at BMW dealer, bike still not running

[MotorradMike]

Originally Posted by def

So, what's the difference?

It's important because none of us want to visit the wrong shop if we're stuck.
The province doesn't really matter.

[AntonLargiader]

The pulley hides the rotor. If the rotor is stuck to the pulley properly and you feel it slip into position, great. Sometimes it's loose and the tech might not realize it. In my case I could see a sliver of bent metal on one side of the hole when I pulled it to inspect the HES.

Yeah, a conscientious tech will feel it go together right. But once it's done, it's not a very intuitive thing to check. I remember thinking that I lucked out in a big way finding it.

I'm not making excuses for anyone, though, and I don't think a shop should be paid for work that doesn't reasonably contribute to a solution. If it needed a HES, so be it. If the tech screwed it up at that point and never found the problem, well, that part wouldn't be billable here and I'd probably be eating some trailer time. But that sort of situation is rare enough that it should be handled on a case by case basis.

[Rinty]

...I just had SO much time in it...AntonLargiader

It took 18 months to diagnose the intermittent HES problem with my wife's Volvo 740, so the time frame you describe seems very reasonable, if I may say so.

Two different shops, each having good people, worked on it four separate times.

[def]

Originally Posted by AntonLargiader

The pulley hides the rotor. If the rotor is stuck to the pulley properly and you feel it slip into position, great. Sometimes it's loose and the tech might not realize it. In my case I could see a sliver of bent metal on one side of the hole when I pulled it to inspect the HES.

Yeah, a conscientious tech will feel it go together right. But once it's done, it's not a very intuitive thing to check. I remember thinking that I lucked out in a big way finding it.

I'm not making excuses for anyone, though, and I don't think a shop should be paid for work that doesn't reasonably contribute to a solution. If it needed a HES, so be it. If the tech screwed it up at that point and never found the problem, well, that part wouldn't be billable here and I'd probably be eating some trailer time. But that sort of situation is rare enough that it should be handled on a case by case basis.

Anton, I understand all that but, what if the engine did not start after your HES/rotor install? What would you have done? Let me answer for you (don't you hate it when somebody answers for you), first, you would have checked for a nice fat spark at the plugs right? Next, I believe you would reach for the timing light or the diagnostic tool to determine ignition timing.

If the engine gets fuel, has compression and spark and turns over, there should be combustion. Take away any of these 3 and, well, we know the answer.

Instead, from what we have heard, the shop just threw parts at it then the owner called a halt to the madness.

BTW, there should be an Anton in every city and town where there is a BMW dealer.

[def]

While this is of no consequence to the OP, I once was visiting the dealer where I purchased my GS, Lyle Lovett Motorsports, Stafford, Texas, yes, the Lyle Lovett who was once married to Julia Roberts.

I would often ride by at lunch time with a bag of burgers and fries for the boys in the repair shop. They often shared experiences with me when I came by for a chat. The owners didn't seem to mined as I was careful not to get in the way of the work.

The BMW mechanic was staring at a brand new BMW with only a few miles that had been dropped off for a warranty repair. The complaint was, sudden engine shutdown. The tech had exhausted all his thoughts and skills. He turned to me and asked, "Got any ideas"? I said, "Yes, I would check all the connectors dealing with engine management". He replied, "Naw, can't be....this is a brand new bike with less than 100 miles on it".

A few days later, I was back for a noon visit and noticed the new BMW was gone from the shop. I asked the tech, "What did you find wrong? He turned to his toolbox and took out a brand new u-joint and handed it to me and said, "You may need this one day...I have no use for it. It yours. As for the BMW, it was a bad connector just as you said. Thanks for the tip".

I still have the new u-joint ready to press into service if it is ever needed. The BMW dealer? Gone...they became a Yamaha dealer and my BMW tech friend? I know not what happened to him.

[AntonLargiader]

Originally Posted by def

Anton, I understand all that but, what if the engine did not start after your HES/rotor install? What would you have done? Let me answer for you ....

Sounds about right. I'd definitely start with indicators that the HES was accomplishing all of the stuff it needed to. Spark, tach movement, injector pluses, adequate output voltage, etc.

[def]

Originally Posted by AntonLargiader

Sounds about right. I'd definitely start with indicators that the HES was accomplishing all of the stuff it needed to. Spark, tach movement, injector pluses, adequate output voltage, etc.

OK, so, you're a skilled mechanic with BMW experience who understands how to correctly diagnose and repair systems on the BMW motorcycle.

That means, you understand tools and how to use them, fasteners, how motorcycle are held together and taken apart, motorcycle electrical systems, the sounds and vibrations of an engine that is running correctly (or incorrectly) and other aspects of a complex two-wheeled vehicle built by BMW. And you have in your library, the necessary BMW repair manuals and other instructional materials and documents to provide guidance for specific repairs that you may not have carried out in your career. Also, you posses diagnostic equipment to aid you when making adjustment or repairs to electronic/electrical systems on the BMW motorcycles you work on. And, you posses micrometers, gauges and other measuring equipment used to determine clearances, dimensions and other aspects of correct assembly of the mechanical systems on these motorcycles.....so, in other words, you're equipped with tools, skills and knowledge similar to an authorized BMW motorcycle repair facility authorized to make repairs to BMW motorcycles. The only difference is, you're not authorized to have a BMW logo on your front door.

So, here we have a skilled mechanic who has performed this HES repair previously with no prior experience regarding the specific repair in question who made the repair such that the outcome was a properly operating BMW motorcycle and it did not cost $2000.00 and the expectations of a properly running motorcycle were met or exceeded and whereas, the official BMW Motorcycle Repair Facility in Canada attempted to perform this repair and made the repair unsuccessfully with the result that the motorcycle did not operate and therefore, the Official BMW Motorcycle repair facility began to install additional new BMW parts on the motorcycle in question in an attempt to "get lucky" and achieve the expected result, and whereas the rightful owner of the motorcycle in question realized that this practice was going to cost him in excess of the fair market value of the motorcycle if he did not stop the authorized Official BMW Motorcycle Repair Facility from randomly installing new parts with the attending labor costs.

Your honor, the defense rests.

[LaurelPerryOnLand]

If the HES doesn't fit...you must acquit!

[def]

Originally Posted by LaurelPerryOnLand

If the HES doesn't fit...you must acquit!

The court finds the party in question guilty.

Pay the defendant $2000.00 plus costs of court. Also, the court awards additional compensatory damages in the amount of $1000.00 for expenses incurred by the defendant due to the negligence on the part of the BMW Authorized Repair Facility.

Pay up (in Canadian dollars).

[MsLizVt]

ebohnet1 et al, hi!

My heart goes out to you ebohnet1, because I've made similar decisions, and have had mixed outcomes.

I don't know how many times while riding locally, there has been some sort of noise, or hiccup in the way the bike is running. Sometimes it's been an electrical thing - like the lights going out all of a sudden and coming back on, a noisy transmission, or bike running with a stutter. Those things create doubt in my mind about what's wrong with the bike.

You know the drill, when the bike acts up, we start going through the symptoms, evaluating the possibilities, then we do the "they all do that" debate, and sometimes we get on ADV to ask for advice. The worst part is when the bike only seems to do this once, and runs great - until of course we're in the middle of a long journey and far from home.

Most times, even though I knew before the trip, I didn't do anything about the unknown issues. Remind me to tell about my HES going out - twice, once on each bike, or the throw out bearing, or the ground wire, or the starter, or the fuel pump, or the list goes on, while I was traveling.

In this case, two weeks before ebohnet1 was leaving for his trip to Nova Scotia, the hiccup hit. Asking for help on ADV, as below yielded good results. My guess is, there was still a bit of doubt about whether swapping the HES would solve the problem, mixed with a little bit of belief 'that they all do that'. We do that all the time, don't we, second guess ourselves, with huge amount of hopes that whatever it was, fixed itself?

For me, the moral of this thread - combined with ebohnet1's thread of two weeks before he left for Nova Scotia - is that the bike won't fix itself, and to deal with whatever it is before heading out on a long journey. There's no way any of us ever want to spend hundreds of dollars for towing, unnecessary parts, and thousands of dollars for hotel rooms, flights, rental vehicles, loss of work, and angst like this.

Certainly the ordeal with the repair, or lack of repair, done in New Brunswick is awful, and we can all wax on about the dealers mistakes, but it's the decision to avoid a niggling issue, that I'm learning from. We all hope for the best when we're on a trip, but this shows how one issue can mushroom into a horrific stressful experience. Again, my heart goes out to ebohnet1 and anyone else who has gone through something of this magnitude.

The other lesson for me, is an affirmation of how knowledgeable and helpful the inmates are here on ADV. Listening to their advice and acting on it, is something I'll try to do more.

Thank you,


Liz




ebohnet1's thread asking for help, two weeks before leaving for Nova Scotia.


The original plea for advice followed by good possible answers, which might have led to taking the bike in for service.

Originally Posted by ebohnet1

Hi all,
First, I have a 2000 1150 GS with just over 61k miles on it.
Yesterday night when riding home on the interstate going roughly 75 mph my bike hesitated twice. First time, I was going 75 steady then the throttle stopped working for 3 seconds. Imagine trying to accelerate and nothing happened for three seconds then all of a sudden it worked fine. Roughly 7-10 miles later, the bike hesitated again for 3 seconds or so. (The bike was driving, then stalled for half a second, then was fine for half a second, stalled again for half a second, and then was fine) It was really quick this time. I continued driving 7 miles on the interstate with no problems plus 20 miles to get home (<45 mph).

Is this easily an issue of bad gas? Something else? I had two bars remaining when the first hesitation occurred. Today after work I am filling up with new gas and then going to take it out for 30 min or so.


Plus to make things worse, I have a 9 day trip to Nova Scotia planned in two weeks.
Any insight you guys can provide would be helpful.
Thanks,
Eric

Originally Posted by def

Check the obvious things first. My first thought is intermittent HES.

Next, is the coil in good condition. It is easy to check the resistance of both primary and secondary windings in the coil.

Next, as mentioned...fuel filter. If you go into the tank, replace not only the filter but the rubber lines. If the lines have small undetected cracks, fuel pressure drops leaving you with inadequate fuel delivery at the injectors and the symptoms you describe.

[Emoto]

MsLizVT, your avatar makes me sweat.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

[def]

Originally Posted by Rinty

It took 18 months to diagnose the intermittent HES problem with my wife's Volvo 740, so the time frame you describe seems very reasonable, if I may say so.

Two different shops, each having good people, worked on it four separate times.

I had 5 Volvos back in the mid 70s and early 80s. The first B21 engine had a Bosch mechanical FI system that was a nightmare (I believe Bosch called it Jetronic). The air module was connected to the engine with a long, plastic hose.

Volvo finally replaced that 1975 244 with a later model (245) with improved Bosch FI. I really liked that 76 245. I bought a slightly used 76 244 with an automatic. The auto trans never worked very well so I took it to an independent shop that dropped the pan only to find most of the clutch friction material sitting in the bottom of the pan. I was provided a new transmission by Volvo via the independent.

I have a soft spot for older Volvos. Those B21 engines were almost indestructible. The new ones? Too Expensive.