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Old 10-10-2012, 08:56 PM   #76
def
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Yes, facts are stubborn and the fact is you contracted with the dealer for a result and paid money in good faith even though the expected result was not achieved. So, no the result was not achieved and so no you don't have to pay.

Now, I have no idea what the N.B law is but, if you used AMEX, they tend to stand firmly behind the cardholder if he or she can produce reasonable evidence in support of the lack of performance.

I have never lost a dispute with AMEX at my side.

Good luck and we're all awaiting the outcome......


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Old 10-11-2012, 12:44 AM   #77
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How much did you authorize when you first dropped the bike off? It seems you shouldn't be liable for anything beyond the initial authorization limit.
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:59 PM   #78
Chip Stevens
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It would upset me if I spent that much money without results. I just spent 1500 to get a vibration out of a Jeep Wrangler front drive with no results. I worked closely with the shop and their staff and a Jeep dealer. I have a extensive mechanical background and my input was not ignored. The problem was never compleatly solved. During this time I came to a realization. In America we spend our money on services or products. Most products are warranted. Far fewer services are warranted. Most lawyers don't promise they will win. Most surgeons don't warrantee you will be 100% after surgery. I have a brother-in-law who goes in on the 22ed to have a tumor at the base of the brain removed. They will go through his nose to get access. The operating room is reserved for 24hrs I'm sure he would love a warrantee. There are some things you just can't warrantee. The parts that went into my Jeep were warranted and if they proved to be bad they were replaced but I paid the labor. (In the end the shop gave me a brake on the labor.) Lemon laws were written to protect the consumer from a product that the dealer just can't make good on a warrantee.
What I'm trying to say hear is cut the dealer some slack. I feel the OP should talk with the dealer and see if they can come to a compromise and if it were me I would keep that compromise confidential. chip
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:38 PM   #79
def
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Originally Posted by Chip Stevens View Post
It would upset me if I spent that much money without results. I just spent 1500 to get a vibration out of a Jeep Wrangler front drive with no results. I worked closely with the shop and their staff and a Jeep dealer. I have a extensive mechanical background and my input was not ignored. The problem was never compleatly solved. During this time I came to a realization. In America we spend our money on services or products. Most products are warranted. Far fewer services are warranted. Most lawyers don't promise they will win. Most surgeons don't warrantee you will be 100% after surgery. I have a brother-in-law who goes in on the 22ed to have a tumor at the base of the brain removed. They will go through his nose to get access. The operating room is reserved for 24hrs I'm sure he would love a warrantee. There are some things you just can't warrantee. The parts that went into my Jeep were warranted and if they proved to be bad they were replaced but I paid the labor. (In the end the shop gave me a brake on the labor.) Lemon laws were written to protect the consumer from a product that the dealer just can't make good on a warrantee.
What I'm trying to say hear is cut the dealer some slack. I feel the OP should talk with the dealer and see if they can come to a compromise and if it were me I would keep that compromise confidential. chip
My 1995 Ford Taurus had a bad vibration from mile one. It went back to the dealer many times in an effort to correct the problem. new drive shafts, new hubs, front end alignment, new wheels and other parts had no effect. I told the dealer that I was suspicious of the OE tires that were installed on the vehicle. They insinuated, "What do you know about tires and cars. Leave it to us...we'll find it". They never did. Fast forward to about 45,000 miles, I replaced the OE tires and guess what, I still own that Taurus and it rides very smoothly at any speed, any RPM in any gear. Oh, and it still has the OE spark plugs in it and gets 27 MPG and it has cheap Wal-Mart house brand tires on it that are wearing like steel, ride well and have good wet grip.

Moral here is, if I had been asked to pay for the service attempt to fix the problem, I would have paid with a CC and immediately refuted the charges upon my return home.

There is no excuse for inept work that nets no result and does not meet expectations. In this case, the expectation was reasonable...fix my motorcycle so I can ride it...
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:42 PM   #80
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[QUOTE=Chip Stevens;I just spent 1500 to get a vibration out of a Jeep Wrangler front drive with no results. [/QUOTE]

Chip, IMO, you wasted $1500.00.

I'll pray for your B-I-L that his surgery goes well and he has a complete recovery.
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:05 PM   #81
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Surgery, court outcomes and machine repairs make for very poor analogies, sorry you pissed $1500 down the toilet. In some cases the ripped off need to take a bit of responsibilty. There is no way in hell this situation would have ended the way it did if I or some others replying to this thread were the customer. The op surely must be a very passive person, and the service manager took advantage of that. Most people go with the flow, avoid conflict and want to separate themselves after the fact, thats probably why they aren't expecting a dispute on the cc.
Chances are excellent they won't even fight it, chances are even better of that happening if BMW inquires about this fiasco - which is why I'd be talking to/emailing with anyone who would listen at BMW about it.
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:10 PM   #82
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I don't fill that I pissed off 1500 dollars. Let me explain. The Jeep had a bad vibration that came on at 45mph. We took the front driveshaft off and there was no vibration up to 95mph. We have had 5 different driveshafts in the jeep to no avail. We went through the transfer case all was well in there. We went through the front differential all is well. The yokes at both ends were changed again to no avail. Jeep Wranglers don't have hubs so at all times the axles are turning. When the driveshaft is disconnected the only difference is the transfer cases output shaft is not turning. Between the three of us working on this problem we have 50 years experience. More then 40 hr were spent. These guys worked dam hard to try to solve my problem. I can't just say screw you I'm not paying you for your effort. I don't feel cheated. I don't feel taken advantage off. I feel discouraged and being the reputable shop they are I know they feel the same.
The examples of lawyers and physicians were used to support my argument that service industries don't do as good a job of warrantee their work as manufactures do of warrantee their products. chip
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:57 PM   #83
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Did you try rotating the tires. A suspension shop told me some times they fight a vibration, checking everything then they swap tires and all is fine. I know you said vibe went away up to 95 with drive shaft off but????
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:06 PM   #84
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Oh yes! chip
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Old 10-12-2012, 02:44 AM   #85
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Chip, what you are saying is there is an implied agreement with the mechanic that they are only responsible for trying to fix the problem. Sorry , but that just doesn't wash. Let's say you hire a plumber to stop a leak in your pipes. Do you pay him $2,000 if the pipes are still leaking? OK, what if you pay a mason to fix your chimney, and the day after he is done, your house fills up with smoke because he didn't fix it. Do you pay him $2,000? A roofer works on your leaky roof,, but when he is done, it still leaks, do you pay him? How about, you go to the dentist because your tooth hurts, he turns around and pulls the wrong tooth, do you pay him?

Clearly there is some cost for diagnostic service. If they had charged $100 after doing a comprehensive analysis, and said they didn't have an answer, we wouldn't even be writing about this, but these morons charged $2000, and yielded no positive results.

I don't dare compare a brain surgeon to a motorcycle mechanic.

As for your brother, I wish him the very best of luck, and good health.
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Old 10-12-2012, 05:25 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip Stevens View Post
I don't fill that I pissed off 1500 dollars. Let me explain. The Jeep had a bad vibration that came on at 45mph. We took the front driveshaft off and there was no vibration up to 95mph. We have had 5 different driveshafts in the jeep to no avail. We went through the transfer case all was well in there. We went through the front differential all is well. The yokes at both ends were changed again to no avail. Jeep Wranglers don't have hubs so at all times the axles are turning. When the driveshaft is disconnected the only difference is the transfer cases output shaft is not turning. Between the three of us working on this problem we have 50 years experience. More then 40 hr were spent. These guys worked dam hard to try to solve my problem. I can't just say screw you I'm not paying you for your effort. I don't feel cheated. I don't feel taken advantage off. I feel discouraged and being the reputable shop they are I know they feel the same.
The examples of lawyers and physicians were used to support my argument that service industries don't do as good a job of warrantee their work as manufactures do of warrantee their products. chip
Chip is your Wrangler lifted? If so maybe you need spacers to lower the transfer case and get the front driveshaft back in line.
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Old 10-18-2012, 10:29 AM   #87
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Update

I took it to a dealer last night so we shall see what comes of it that way.
Whats the worse that can happen,another 2,000 dollar bill....
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Old 10-18-2012, 03:29 PM   #88
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By now it is probably all dried out and will start right up and run like a champ after dealer spends $1500 worth of labor figuring out the tank is empty.
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Old 10-26-2012, 06:17 AM   #89
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Question I want to know

Have you found out anything from the dealer on what the real problem was?
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Old 10-26-2012, 08:31 AM   #90
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It's been a week is it running?
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