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Old 09-23-2012, 09:50 PM   #16
baldwithglasses
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I'd give him $1500 cash and tell him how much work it will take to refurb the motor and tranny, and to sort out the inevitable electrical gremlins that go hand-in-hand with long-term neglect.
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Old 09-24-2012, 05:21 AM   #17
itinerant OP
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Next week

Haven't bought it yet (sorry for all the conversation before I actually have the bike), but it's more or less a foregone conclusion. He's not listing it. I offered a deposit to hold it until I could get down there, but he said not to worry. We've set up a meet next Sunday.

Renner, thanks for the links. I'm so used to modern dealers not having anything for my CB350, it didn't even occur to me to go to a place like MAX, which is practically down the road from my father's place in Maine. I'm headed up there today, actually, and may try to pick up some replacement fluids.

Not sure how I feel about wheeling and dealing. We'll have to see when I get there what sort of shape the bike is in. He seems willing to let me start pulling things off the bike, changing fluids, etc., before actually buying the bike. that's worth something.

By the way, what's the best option for a battery for this bike? I'm pretty sure it'll need a new one; the owner says the current one has about 20 seconds of cranking (not continuously) before it needs to go back on the charger.
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Old 09-24-2012, 07:12 AM   #18
Renner
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IIRC Wirewrkr posted somewhere recently regarding a good & inexpensive battery. I’ll try a search for it…

I can say getting the battery in & out of an ST is a small challenge. Depending on the battery, it’s a tight fit.

The technique that’s worked well for me recently has been to… while lifting… rotate the battery so the left wall becomes the top, then easing it out.
If that battery doesn’t want to come out easily without removing other parts you might first give this a try.

edit: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=19436609&postcount=53
in another R80ST thread, no less. http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=819789
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Renner screwed with this post 09-24-2012 at 07:28 AM
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Old 09-24-2012, 11:06 AM   #19
SOLO LOBO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itinerant View Post
I guess the way I feel is, I'd rather spend $4,000 on an R80 ST,
Here's the reailty... if there is damage from the water in the trans rebuild start at ~$600, and then go up from there when gears and other things are in poor condition... the rebuild on my G/S's trans was $1,200

If the final drive has the same water issues (as mine did) there's another chunk... think I spent ~$400 on mine....

Point being, this ST may run you much more than $4K.. add in tires, battery, rear shock, etc... head rebuilds are expensive as well.

That said, I prefer to rescue airheads, just have your eyes wide open... you may hit a home run and have none of these issue or you may go well beyond the $4K starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stagehand
your bike is suitably dirty. Well done.
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Old 09-24-2012, 11:22 AM   #20
Renner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLO LOBO View Post
Point being, this ST may run you much more than $4K.. add in tires, battery, rear shock, etc... head rebuilds are expensive as well.

That said, I prefer to rescue airheads, just have your eyes wide open... you may hit a home run and have none of these issue or you may go well beyond the $4K starter
well said.
top-end/head work can get up around $1k quickly.

I hadn't seen the $4,00 reference till now.
Can't say I'm very good at pricing bikes but IMO that particular R80ST should start closer to $3k.

Personally, I'd like to see what others think is a fair price for this one.
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Renner screwed with this post 09-24-2012 at 11:27 AM
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Old 09-24-2012, 11:41 AM   #21
Airhead Wrangler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renner View Post
well said.
top-end/head work can get up around $1k quickly.

I hadn't seen the $4,00 reference till now.
Can't say I'm very good at pricing bikes but IMO that particular R80ST should start closer to $3k.

Personally, I'd like to see what others think is a fair price for this one.
In non-running condition it's value is $1500 or less. In good running, but bad cosmetic condition, maybe with the instrument issues mentioned, that could get up to around $3k. At $4000 it should need nothing or very little and should probably look pretty good too. Prices vary by region obviously, but if I were in the market for another one this would be what I'd be willing to pay.
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Old 09-24-2012, 11:51 AM   #22
England-Kev
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airhead Wrangler View Post
In non-running condition it's value is $1500 or less. .
When I bought my non runner all thos years ago, I paid 700 ($1134US)

I am negotiating on another right now that is way less than I paid for the first one


Go in cheap, he can only say No it's a bit like chatting up girls really
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Old 09-24-2012, 04:04 PM   #23
Bluethumb
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+ 1 on dropping the pan and going through all the electrical connections. Doing all the connections teaches one about the wiring system and is the best preventative one can do. Lightly clean every spade connector with 400 wet dry sandpaper, squirt contact cleaner inside the female connectors then coat with dielectric grease, available at any auto parts store. Heat sink paste behind the ignition module.

I agree with dropping the pan and checking things out. I also would flush the fluids right away, run the bike for 100-500 miles,depending on how the original oils looked, then do it again. I would not trust the original filter. I'd put in a new one then replace at maybe 3,000-5,000 miles. Again depending on what the fluids looked like when you drain them.

Get some penetrating oil like Marvel Mystery Oil and soak all the fill and drain plugs and I mean soak. Let it sit overnight before trying to loosen any drain plugs. Those suckers strip like crazy. Pull the spark plug caps and squirt some penetrating oil around the spark plugs while you're at it and also let the oil soak in. If you decide to drop the pan, again put penetrating oil on the bolts before removing. I'd coat every nut, bolt, drain and filler plug before touching any of them.

First time you remove the exhaust header nuts, have someone that really knows how to do it help. Strip one of those and you're in a bad. way. Loosening, greasing, and tightening those nuts is something I do once a year.

When youre ready to start the bike, I'd also squirt some oil into the cylinders as described and crank the engine over with the plugs out and grounded, very sound advice.

If the bike were to start right up with no issues, great. But spending a couple of days doing all of this before starting it up can prevent a lot of problems.and no harm done.

You can put the bike in 5th gear and push it just to see if the engine is frozen. With key off!!! It should turn the engine over. If the engine is frozen, that's super, and I mean SUPER, bad.

I'd also only use mineral, not synthetic oil. Less likely to cause problems with seals.

I've seen "barn bikes" brought back to life after sitting for years with doing the above. And run great. I had a /2 that I brought back this very way. Sat for years, tires cracked to hell. No issues and ran great. But it wasn't left outside. Water in the tank, engine, trans, etc., can be an issue.

You're bound to have a BMW club in the areas. Go to the next meeting. Even if they're now riding oilheads, many started on airheads and can give you lots of guidance. Airheads are amazingly easy to work on. Everything discribed by everyone you can do, except a trans rebuild. But cleaning and rebuilding carbs, setting valves, ect., easy to learn. Elbow grease and sweat costs you nothing. Fluids, filters, carb parts, and spark plugs are pretty cheap. With luck, you could be looking at a couple hundred dollars.
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Old 09-24-2012, 07:25 PM   #24
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Whoops

Hey everyone,

Thanks so much for all the sound advice! I'm comfortable around engines - have rebuilt several other twin motorcycle engines, and a couple of inboard boat motors, so the work doesn't scare me too much, but all this talk about transmission rebuilding sounds unappealing. What should I look for to determine if there is/was water in the transmission?

Also, just for the sake of consolidating, here are the details of the bike (as I know them)

- under 10,000 miles
- was running regularly a couple years ago, but since then was stored questionably (maybe outside part of the time)
- had water in the crankcase when the owner went to clean it up for selling a couple weeks ago
- the owner changed the oil and replaced the gas, and the bike ran for about 10 seconds (this is what he told me)
- doesn't starts now; the battery dies quickly when trying to start it. I don't think he's put much effort into it since I told him I'd buy it not-running (kind of wanted to avoid having him doing more harm than good in trying to get it running).

He told me he'd like $2500 if he could get it running. I said "great, that's fine, how about closer to $2000 if you can't?". He said that was cool. Is $2000 really too much, assuming no catastrophic engine/transmission damage and all I need to do is clean the carbs, clean the tank, change all the fluids, grease all the electrical connections, and put in a new battery? (I realize that's a lot of work, but not super expensive, and I've got time). I think the confusion about $4k was that I said I'd be willing to put that much into it to get it running well - $2k to buy it, $2k to get it going. Does that seem reasonable?

Again, thank you guys so much for your help! I apologize if I'm asking inane questions - I swear, my learning curve is steep!
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Old 09-24-2012, 07:43 PM   #25
Airhead Wrangler
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With those new details I'd probably chance it. Water in the crankcase, huh? Rusty water? Milky oil?
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Old 09-24-2012, 07:57 PM   #26
mark1305
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With regard to any water in the transmission of a bike that has been sitting, peruse my thread & story about my ST. The first post gives most of the background and sets the stage. The rest follows along for the "fix".
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=435511
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Old 09-24-2012, 07:58 PM   #27
itinerant OP
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Milkshake

All I got from him about the water was this:

"The dipstick was reading way over-filled and when I went to drain it out found water."

Looking at the emails, he mentioned that he did put oil in the cylinders before turning it over. Says he filled the float bowls and it ran for about 10 seconds. After that I told him I'd buy it and I think he stopped trying (just as well?)

I'm not able to get down there and pick up the bike til Sunday - I'm really champing at the bit, here! Been wanting one of these for a few years - heard such good things. Almost bought one from a dealer last year, but he wanted 4500 and it looked rough.

By the way, Airhead Wrangler, I've just been reading through your Pantah thread, and I must say, I'm really enjoying it!
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:47 AM   #28
SOLO LOBO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itinerant View Post
"The dipstick was reading way over-filled and when I went to drain it out found water."
If the crank case had a significant amout of water in it, I would take a pass on this ST... the other possibility is that the petcocks were left open and the gas drained past the carbs into the crankcase... ask the owner if the tank was empty and if the oil he drained smelled like gas.

How much is "significantly overfilled"?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stagehand
your bike is suitably dirty. Well done.
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Old 09-25-2012, 11:05 AM   #29
itinerant OP
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Hey Lobo. I'm not sure how much was 'significantly overfilled'. I'll have to wait until I actually get there and can talk to him, look at the bike, etc. He did say he was mystified as to how water would've gotten in there, so maybe it was fuel. I'll just have to wait and see!
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Old 09-25-2012, 11:10 AM   #30
SOLO LOBO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itinerant View Post
Hey Lobo. I'm not sure how much was 'significantly overfilled'. I'll have to wait until I actually get there and can talk to him, look at the bike, etc. He did say he was mystified as to how water would've gotten in there, so maybe it was fuel. I'll just have to wait and see!
If there was some amount of water in there, I would be worried about the ball bearings on the crank being rusted or pitted (as my final drive one's were). No way to tell this without a serious stripdown, or perhaps some acute listening skills if you can turn the crank with the spark plugs out...

Same concern for the transmission bearings and gears
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stagehand
your bike is suitably dirty. Well done.
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