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Old 04-02-2013, 12:51 PM   #271
Adv Grifter
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Originally Posted by GAS GUY View Post
I am probably already blocking a lot of airflow with the skidplate and HT engine guard.
The tool tubes pretty much just go in front of those,so I dont think they will block much more than what I am already.
The synthetic oil will help handle the extra heat along with frequent oil changes.
I'd guesstimate about 90% of cooling is done through radiator heat exchange. You don't have cooling fins to worry about and air flow across parts of the motor probably don't account for much cooling. As long as you're not blocking air flow to rads and your Oil Cooler (if you have one?) should be the SHIZZZ!

If you have a Rad Fan, that could help. I do know the KLR does tend to run on the HOT side for a liquid cooled, low HP single ... well ... my first gen one did anyway. No issues ... ever ... but it did heat up a few times in Mexico.

Synthetic oil is a must ... but I'd guess changes could extend out to 3 or 4K
miles, no harm done. I always LOOK and SMELL my oil for tell tail signs of over heating. You can smell cooked oil. And to me, once oil is black and no longer clear, I'm past due for an oil change. I try to never go there.

I would be interested in your comments about your 19" front tire vs. the stock 21" ... especially with a full load in sand, loose gravel or MUD. I always LOVED a 21" for such conditions ... and I can keep pace with those running a 19" on the street too. (with the right tire )
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:12 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by Tsotsie View Post
Yes, blocking airflow. I saw temp differentials of about 10 degrees in tests between the stock bash plate and without it (I did not test a tube). Wattman has seen 270+ degrees in stock form in AZ. Adding a tube would further restrict airflow.


I went further. I added extra holes to the AL bash plate I use. I then added 16sq" of heatsink finning to the undersides of the 'sump'. This reduced the oil temps from 250 to 220 in tests at 100F ambient (60 miles at 80 mph indicated). I use a 195F water thermostat on an 08 that has better cooling..

I also made a small water/oil heat exchanger but decided on not fitting it due to the limited oil pressure and oil flow. The extra finning added met the criteria I needed.
I am going to take your advice and remove the tool tubes.
I wasn't sure if I was going to keep them anyway, and I would probably just carry too much stuff in them.
Plus when I go back to a 21" knobby and start going offroad more it could be a issue.
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:13 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
I'd guesstimate about 90% of cooling is done through radiator heat exchange. You don't have cooling fins to worry about and air flow across parts of the motor probably don't account for much cooling. As long as you're not blocking air flow to rads and your Oil Cooler (if you have one?) should be the SHIZZZ!

If you have a Rad Fan, that could help. I do know the KLR does tend to run on the HOT side for a liquid cooled, low HP single ... well ... my first gen one did anyway. No issues ... ever ... but it did heat up a few times in Mexico.

Synthetic oil is a must ... but I'd guess changes could extend out to 3 or 4K
miles, no harm done. I always LOOK and SMELL my oil for tell tail signs of over heating. You can smell cooked oil. And to me, once oil is black and no longer clear, I'm past due for an oil change. I try to never go there.

I would be interested in your comments about your 19" front tire vs. the stock 21" ... especially with a full load in sand, loose gravel or MUD. I always LOVED a 21" for such conditions ... and I can keep pace with those running a 19" on the street too. (with the right tire )
The 19" wheel came with the bike along with a brand new Anakee 2 for it, so I am going to use it first.
I will more than likely go back to the 21" after that with a Dot knobby unless I am just doing too many road miles.
I really like the Tkc80 tires but they get expensive.
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Old 04-03-2013, 08:49 AM   #274
Ranger Ron
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Originally Posted by GAS GUY View Post
These are the two lines that go down to end the bottom of each side of the tank and then tee together before going into a filter and then the pump.



Hi Gas Guy...

I did a very similar setup for the Acerbis tank on my KLX250S (351, actually) with two tee'd lengths of tubing extending down to the bottom of the tank wings. You can see the fuel pump at the upper right behind the frame rail:



Be cautious of the Tygon tubing. It was formulated to be impervious to gasoline but not ethanol. I used it originally in my conversion. Most of the connections were very tight slip fits on barb fittings. I had an issue with the fueling system at an inopportune time, about 400 miles into a combined SS1000 and BB1500. I was able to finish but found out later that the Tygon had swelled up and one of the intake fitting/weights in one of the wings of the tank had come off and the tube had floated up.

I replaced the Tygon with Viton tubing and the problem was solved.

BTW, you can get fuel pump rebuild kits and/or pumps here:
http://www.powersportsuperstore.com/...umps-s/128.htm

The kits are about $14.

These fuel pumps are Mikuni snowmobile pumps. One model is designed for 4 cycle engines and one for 2 cycle. They both use the same rebuild kit. Both need pulsed vacuum to operate. Steady vacuum won't work.

Ron
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:28 AM   #275
Tsotsie
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Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
I'd guesstimate about 90% of cooling is done through radiator heat exchange.... (with the right tire )
Think again. The oil is pumped/ pressurized which generates heat. Bearings and gears meshing generate heat. Oil sprayed out from the con-rod main bearing is used to lubricate and cool the underside of the piston -lots of heat absorbed there! The minimal oil in the head/cams is closest to the cooling of the water. The oil is channeled to the crankshaft, head and both gearbox shafts and bearings generating heat. What cools it? Oil is often the forgotten step child of cooling issues.

Having measured the oil temps and doing a lot of distance work, with the motor driven hard for a long time, particularly in summer, I am happier with oil temps in the 220 range. I also have an oilhead BMW. Temps in that head have seen 350 with oil in the 270 easily despite its 2 oil coolers. I use synthetic in that due to its 'normal' operating temps. Keeping oil below 250 is fine a normal for dyno oils.

I prefer to measure the operating temps and plan accordingly. One will be surprise when you start to measure. Having said that, most operating conditions KLR's will see are not likely to have any oil heat issues. Smelling cooked oil is closing the barn after the horse has bolted!.
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:50 PM   #276
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Ranger Ron,
Thanks for the info and links.
Thats a very impressive ride you pulled off. BB1500 on the Klx250s ???
What is that module in the lower left of the picture, it looks like a cruise control module ?
What seat do you use on the Klx for long distance ?
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:20 PM   #277
Adv Grifter
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Originally Posted by Tsotsie View Post
Think again. The oil is pumped/ pressurized which generates heat. Bearings and gears meshing generate heat. Oil sprayed out from the con-rod main bearing is used to lubricate and cool the underside of the piston -lots of heat absorbed there! The minimal oil in the head/cams is closest to the cooling of the water. The oil is channeled to the crankshaft, head and both gearbox shafts and bearings generating heat. What cools it? Oil is often the forgotten step child of cooling issues.

Having measured the oil temps and doing a lot of distance work, with the motor driven hard for a long time, particularly in summer, I am happier with oil temps in the 220 range. I also have an oilhead BMW. Temps in that head have seen 350 with oil in the 270 easily despite its 2 oil coolers. I use synthetic in that due to its 'normal' operating temps. Keeping oil below 250 is fine a normal for dyno oils.

I prefer to measure the operating temps and plan accordingly. One will be surprise when you start to measure. Having said that, most operating conditions KLR's will see are not likely to have any oil heat issues. Smelling cooked oil is closing the barn after the horse has bolted!.
Clearly, my mistake on the 90% comment! Apologies ... really I do know better! Nice comments on oil and its roll in cooling ... Thanks!
I've ridden the Air/Oil Cooled DR650 since 1996 ... so I am familiar with how oil cooling works when combined with Air cooling.

The DR650 uses Suzuki's SACS system. Suzuki won dozens of road racing championships running SACS air/oil cooled motors ... they were the LAST of the big four to go to ALL liquid cooling.

Ducati adopted it later on (late 90's) Air/Oil cooled Monster, Multistradas and Classics. Read about SACS here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_...Cooling_System

Of course for Kevin Cameron fans (or Aircraft motor historians) they'll know these techniques were first used on big, inline multi cycl. aircraft. Suzuki took the concept and improved it and using modern technology ... hit it out of the park. DR650's simply do not overheat. (ask me how I know )
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:31 PM   #278
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Originally Posted by GAS GUY View Post
Ranger Ron,
Thanks for the info and links.
Thats a very impressive ride you pulled off. BB1500 on the Klx250s ???
What is that module in the lower left of the picture, it looks like a cruise control module ?
What seat do you use on the Klx for long distance ?
Thanks. I did a search on the IBA archives and found that no one had done a SS1000 or BB1500 on a KLX250S. I thought it would be a hoot to be the first one! I did my first SS1000 back in 2003 on my (then) 2001 KLR650.

On this IBA run I used Sweet Cheeks. They were amazingly comfortable. I didn't use the suggested Coke bottles, though. I rolled up some 1/2" closed cell foam for the support. I was able to "fine tune" the Sweet Cheeks that way.

Yeah, that's a Rostra electronic cruise control. I put a cruise control on a Concours I had in 2004 and vowed then to never have another street legal bike without one! I guess it's a little overkill on the KLX though.

Ron
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Old 04-04-2013, 07:10 AM   #279
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I've ridden the Air/Oil Cooled DR650 since 1996 ...
That is a nicely designed motor.
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Old 04-04-2013, 11:13 AM   #280
Adv Grifter
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Originally Posted by GAS GUY View Post
The 19" wheel came with the bike along with a brand new Anakee 2 for it, so I am going to use it first.
I will more than likely go back to the 21" after that with a Dot knobby unless I am just doing too many road miles.
I really like the Tkc80 tires but they get expensive.
I hope you leave the 19" on long enough to give us some comments ... and of course I'd love to hear your thoughts regarding 19 vs. 21 ... used in ALL conditions. (loaded bike, unloaded bike, Road use, Trail use, Mud, Sand et al)

Seems more knobbie tires are available in 19" ... hopefully not all as expensive as the TKC80.

I choose the TKC80 for its longevity and toughness for a trip into Mexico and Cent. America. It's not the greatest knobby in the world (when you are used to dirt bikes) but its not so bad. Nice, tough side walls and hard to puncture.

But where it impresses is it's street ability ... once you are used to it its surprising how well your bike can handle on the road. Very good for a knobbie type tire ...
even on a wet road. (within reason) But the best part is a TKC front in mild use can last up to 7000 to 9,000 miles on a bike like a KLR, DR, XR-L, F650. Unheard of for a knobbie.

They wear really ugly from about 6,000 miles on ... and screw up road handling. But if you are someplace where NO tire is available ... you just make do and slow down. You can just keep going. The last 10% of the tire tread is very hard to totally kill off!
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Old 04-04-2013, 05:53 PM   #281
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Hey GasGuy this has been a great thread. I am in the EXACT same boat as you are. I have owned 3 BMW GSA's and while they are hands down the best bike I have ever owned and probably will ever own I no longer own one. I have never owned a better street bike than my GSA. I could ride that thing forever and not even think twice. Where I didn't really love it was off road. It wasn't that it wasn't capable it's that I was so scared of dropping that bike that I was stressed the moment I was off the tarmac. I hated to ride it off road. When you have $20plus invested in a bike and it goes down it aint cheap to fix. Also I was over the fact of owning a $20k motorcycle. Economy sucks, overtime has slowed and I need a cheaper ride. So I sold the GSA and went for a pure dirt bike. Picked up an 09 530XC-W that is a mean Fire Breathing off road machine. Dual Sported it but after owning it I am missing the longer trips that I made on the BMW. I would probably consider myself a 60% Dirt and 40% street rider at this point. I love being off the tarmac and enjoy exploring the back country but I want a bike that I can ride to Baja or Alaska or anywhere in between. The 530 isn't gonna cut it so now I am considering an outright sell of my 530 or a trade for a KLR. I love what you have done with your KLR but it seems by the time you are done with it you may be the first inmate to have spent $20k on a KLR. So what are your impressions now of the Downgrade. Do you regret it? Or was this a great decision? Be honest now.. lol...
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Old 04-04-2013, 09:01 PM   #282
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Hey GasGuy this has been a great thread. I am in the EXACT same boat as you are. I have owned 3 BMW GSA's and while they are hands down the best bike I have ever owned and probably will ever own I no longer own one. I have never owned a better street bike than my GSA. I could ride that thing forever and not even think twice. Where I didn't really love it was off road. It wasn't that it wasn't capable it's that I was so scared of dropping that bike that I was stressed the moment I was off the tarmac. I hated to ride it off road. When you have $20plus invested in a bike and it goes down it aint cheap to fix. Also I was over the fact of owning a $20k motorcycle. Economy sucks, overtime has slowed and I need a cheaper ride. So I sold the GSA and went for a pure dirt bike. Picked up an 09 530XC-W that is a mean Fire Breathing off road machine. Dual Sported it but after owning it I am missing the longer trips that I made on the BMW. I would probably consider myself a 60% Dirt and 40% street rider at this point. I love being off the tarmac and enjoy exploring the back country but I want a bike that I can ride to Baja or Alaska or anywhere in between. The 530 isn't gonna cut it so now I am considering an outright sell of my 530 or a trade for a KLR. I love what you have done with your KLR but it seems by the time you are done with it you may be the first inmate to have spent $20k on a KLR. So what are your impressions now of the Downgrade. Do you regret it? Or was this a great decision? Be honest now.. lol...
We are very similar, I even just sold my street legal 2009 Ktm 450 xcw right after the Gsa.

The original owner put most of the money into the Klr, I'm just finishing off all the little details and putting the time into smoothing all the rough little edges.
I wouldn't recommend buying a Klr new and putting the kind of money in it that my bike has, there are better options or buy it with the expensive mods already done, or ride it near stock.

I have only had it out a few times this year so far, but I can say the total package I have here has exceeded my expectations.Keep in mind I have already had a couple Gen 1 bikes so I know what they are and don't expect it to be something it isn't.I think alot of guys read about all the mods available and think they are going to build some super bike and then are discouraged when it is still a Klr.All the mods big and small help it become a great bike but it will always be a Klr.You will never get that warm fuzzy feeling you got from the engine on the Bmw or especially the Ktm.But, its not about that.The Klr is a Adventure travel bike and it is about the lifestyle and being content.It mostly does it in a relaxed mode and works best when you slow down and explore and just live life and quit trying to rush from here to there.

As the year goes on I will give more feedback and reports and pictures.Hopefully its a good year and I get lots of adventure travel in.

A couple other bikes you could consider is the Dr650 and the WR250r.
I really like the Wr250r and may eventually pick one up for the more off road adventure stuff.That bike just really appeals to me.

At one time, for a short while I had a 2007 Dr650 perfectly setup with a Safari Tank and Baja designs big round off road light, suspension all set up, dirt bags and racks, corbin seat and more.I picked that bike up during a trade from another bike I sold and I should have kept the Dr650 cause it was set up so sweetly but I sold it because at the time I was doing the Gs thing and more long distance road miles.

Its all good, and as you can probably tell I am a bike junky.I understand and enjoy all the different types of bikes and bike lifestyles and appreciate them for what they are.
I have even been through multiple Harleys and used to do lots of long distance and some Iron Butt rides on them.Lol

Bottom line though is even when I had the big fancy decked out Gs's it was the ride reports and pictures of the guys out there on Klr's and Dr's and 250's and the like that always stirred my soul.I always felt in my heart , that is what it is about.
My problem has always been too little time and so many places (with work, wife, house, kids, dogs) so I always liked a big comfortable bike so I could ride as many miles as possible in my little bit of spare time.
Now, I am trying to discipline myself and just slow down and just do what I can do, but do it the way I envision it and quit trying to force and rush everything.

Well, enough rambling on, I have to go to bed and go to work tommorow.See what I mean, too many responsibilities !! Lol !!
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Old 04-05-2013, 04:40 AM   #283
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This is a great thread.

Just sayin'....
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:49 AM   #284
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This is a great thread.

Just sayin'....
It is!

I also own a 2005 R1150R as well as the 08 KL. Both from new now have 50k miles on them. Different animals, both very enjoyable. Nearly sold the KLR after about 4 months - frustration with its engonomics and handling in higher winds - fixed that. Both are used for extended long distance, cross border riding and 800+ mile days, 4000 mile weeks - the Beemer for the 1000mile + days.

I stuck with the KLR and now it is more comfortable ergo wise than the Beemer. I have also worked on, modified and blue printed about 95% of the KLR and the added farkles - because I can and enjoy it. It is often my choice on a long distance ride when my friends are on the Beemers and Ducati's. They take off on the high speed areas, but in the tighter and more technical areas, the KLR if ridden well, can be surprising to many!

There is plenty of road for all of us, no matter what our ride is.
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:17 AM   #285
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frustration with its handling in higher winds - fixed that.

How? Low fender?



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