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Old 10-01-2012, 05:40 PM   #46
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:34 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Motorfiets View Post
nope....

got my sticker already.... don't need to see another one

Ben, I thought you sold your F8?
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Old 10-01-2012, 08:06 PM   #48
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Back atcha
Glad to see you know how to eat crow when you're wrong.
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Old 10-01-2012, 08:58 PM   #49
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Ben, I thought you sold your F8?
eh... fiddling with stuff still

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Old 10-02-2012, 05:04 AM   #50
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Fork Off.

So, cutting to the chase: If, just like always, all of the inmates here are so sure that the new BMW fork change is the worst thing EVER, and WP obviously make a 43mm fork already, wouldn't it theoretically be easy to swap out the internals from another 43mm adjustable model that they make and upgrade the F8's fork that way? It doesn't seem like it should be much harder than the conversion that -- W -- and Gangplank did on theirs. Not to mention that, comparative merits of the Zokes and White Powers aside, all of the Orange-riding, Beemer-hating mob on the site should LOVE selling their parted-out spares at a premium to the "Café Crowd" F8 riders who want the better ride ...to say nothing of the endless insults afterward.
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Old 10-02-2012, 05:38 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by PatrickM View Post
Lukas, got to say I appreciate many of your posts (e.g. on thumpers talking about rear pegs and the subframes) so let me ask a few questions of you or any other readers, without trying to offend...

What makes a real WP fork? The reason I ask is that I have seen many discussions centered around a change in manufacturing process (e.g. Mercedes and Chrysler, Rotax being manufactured in China) but the end result is still owned by the parent company. It's still technically a WP fork, even though we may perceive a downgrade in quality - which I am not disagreeing with, but it's an opportunity for WP and for BMW if this were truly a WP fork!

How valuable is the multi-adjustment? Yes, 100% agree it provides a great deal of flexibility, but when I look at ESA today, I have 3 settings (NORM, COMF and SPORT) which may take away from the ability to do 1/4 to 4 full turns for the dampening settings. Does a myriad of settings take away from the enjoyment of the machine (aka set it and forget it), versus having a lot of fine tuning which for the most part confuses people who simply want to buy a bike and ride?

Can the technology of WP be better than what BMW had before? I know crappy straight springs, weak seals and bad dampening settings can ruin the bike in a myriad of situations, can this setting be "good enough" for what most people use it for?

Do we think that WP has in the back of their mind that this is the entry to a larger BMW market - to see how their stuff handles (a pig of a bike 600 lbs, not counting gear which can push this bike to the 1000# mark), and potentially provide an upgrade solution later on?

Without taking it apart and looking at the design, can we determine what type of WP suspension is in there, e.g. from the sticker and potentially what could be changed?

Suspension is critical. No one should disagree with this as this allows us to keep the tire in contact with the ground, and handle weight transfers without killing the rider (looping or bottoming out). Tires are the first things I change to suit my manner of style, suspension is near the top of the list, but not the top. Why? Because it's so damn expensive. I would love a "Chinese menu" of options, but no manufacturer allows such customization and the change out is a PITA so we wind up with multiple bikes.
Edit: Sorry, got the name mixed up.

Hi Patrick,

You are right, my observations so far are purely based on the outside view of the parts, not having seen the internals, not having ridden the forks, not having read a comparative review.

I am however pretty familiar with WP forks, both the open and closed cartridge designs, having disassembled/revalved/resprung/rebuilt/modified in travel/length, a few dozen of their road racing as well as offroad and MX forks.

What I see used on the 2013 BMW appears to - on the outside at least - not have anything to do with WP Suspension technology/design/parts (which always offers at least external rebound and compression adjustment, some also preload), but rather the same fork as previously used, with a different sticker on it because it's produced in a different plant.

Many people don't know this but WP is a completely separate manufacturing company that for example also produces radiators not just for KTM but also BMW, Triumph and Ducati.

I am interested to see the first pair of these stripped down to have a look at the internals, maybe the gentleman below?


Quote:
Originally Posted by fractalsource View Post
I agree. - I think the forks on my wheel barrow work better.

If the forks weren't lame enough - when they work. - - My friend just bought a brand new 2013 F800 GS. Within 3 days- Under 400 miles, we walked outside to get on our bikes, and noticed fork oil dripping out of both of her forks. Back to the shop with a brand new bike, with leaky forks.

For the kind of money a person shells out, - I'd expect a lot more.
Any chance your buddy could snap some pics when they strip them down for seal replacement, that would be great!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PenultimateMan View Post
So, cutting to the chase: If, just like always, all of the inmates here are so sure that the new BMW fork change is the worst thing EVER, and WP obviously make a 43mm fork already, wouldn't it theoretically be easy to swap out the internals from another 43mm adjustable model that they make and upgrade the F8's fork that way? It doesn't seem like it should be much harder than the conversion that -- W -- and Gangplank did on theirs. Not to mention that, comparative merits of the Zokes and White Powers aside, all of the Orange-riding, Beemer-hating mob on the site should LOVE selling their parted-out spares at a premium to the "Café Crowd" F8 riders who want the better ride ...to say nothing of the endless insults afterward.

I've got about a dozen sets of WP forks here, both 43 and 48mm. If somebody takes apart a 2013 BMW fork to get some dimensions, I will do the same with the adjustable cartridges so we can get some idea if this upgrade will be possible and what it will take. First thing to check is the fork cap thread size and pitch, if that doesn't interchange it will be a huge pain in the ass because the outer tubes won't have enough material to be be re-threaded in another size.
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:58 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukasM View Post

Hi Frank,

You are right, my observations so far are purely based on the outside view of the parts, not having seen the internals, not having ridden the forks, not having read a comparative review.

I am however pretty familiar with WP forks, both the open and closed cartridge designs, having disassembled/revalved/resprung/rebuilt/modified in travel/length, a few dozen of their road racing as well as offroad and MX forks.

What I see used on the 2013 BMW appears to - on the outside at least - not have anything to do with WP Suspension technology/design/parts (which always offers at least external rebound and compression adjustment, some also preload), but rather the same fork as previously used, with a different sticker on it because it's produced in a different plant.

Many people don't know this but WP is a completely separate manufacturing company that for example also produces radiators not just for KTM but also BMW, Triumph and Ducati.

I am interested to see the first pair of these stripped down to have a look at the internals, maybe the gentleman below?

Any chance your buddy could snap some pics when they strip them down for seal replacement, that would be great!

I've got about a dozen sets of WP forks here, both 43 and 48mm. If somebody takes apart a 2013 BMW fork to get some dimensions, I will do the same with the adjustable cartridges so we can get some idea if this upgrade will be possible and what it will take. First thing to check is the fork cap thread size and pitch, if that doesn't interchange it will be a huge pain in the ass because the outer tubes won't have enough material to be be re-threaded in another size.
Thanks for the answer and additional information!

I'm very sure that if these were replaceable w/ adjustable components that would be a HUGE selling point for many folks. Like many have stated, adjustable provides some great flexibility and would make the decision to purchase a BMW a huge plus. Fine with the stock fork, no problem. Want to play a little, change components. Want to play more, change the entire setup.

If I knew there was a concern about components, I would have asked the shop guys to snap some pictures when they were in there to replace the seals. Since they couldn't replace the seals and apparently cleaned everything up and reassembled... no more leaks. Almost (not quite, but almost) want a bit of seepage/leakage so I could take it back and get some pictures of them working through it. But if it happens, glad to try and get more pictures.
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Old 10-02-2012, 10:19 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by PatrickM View Post
Thanks for the answer and additional information!

I'm very sure that if these were replaceable w/ adjustable components that would be a HUGE selling point for many folks. Like many have stated, adjustable provides some great flexibility and would make the decision to purchase a BMW a huge plus. Fine with the stock fork, no problem. Want to play a little, change components. Want to play more, change the entire setup.

If I knew there was a concern about components, I would have asked the shop guys to snap some pictures when they were in there to replace the seals. Since they couldn't replace the seals and apparently cleaned everything up and reassembled... no more leaks. Almost (not quite, but almost) want a bit of seepage/leakage so I could take it back and get some pictures of them working through it. But if it happens, glad to try and get more pictures.
What I can already tell you is that the axle clamps will need some machining for sure, they need to be bored out in order to fit the compression holders.

This thing:



Needs to go in here:




Hopefully there is enough meat in the BMW axle clamps to bore them out that much?


What would also be helpful to get an idea of the feasibility is if you could measure the thread size and pitch of your fork caps. You can easily remove those by simply loosening the upper triple clamp pinch bolts and then turning the cap with a socket. You don't even have to take it out all the way, just enough to check the threads.

I'll do the same with my KTM WP parts and a set of 08-12 BMW fork caps.
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:25 PM   #54
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Jeez, I was kinda' enjoying my 2012 F800 until started reading all these posts about how inferior my forks are... now I feel like a bought a piece of Sh$%t.....
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:44 PM   #55
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Jeez, I was kinda' enjoying my 2012 F800 until started reading all these posts about how inferior my forks are... now I feel like a bought a piece of Sh$%t.....
Ha ha.... no worries mate..... Just close your eyes, and enjoy the ride..... They don't suck all that bad......imho.... well... except if you tends to go through things....rather than around them.
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Old 10-03-2012, 06:36 AM   #56
LukasM
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Originally Posted by LarryGee View Post
Jeez, I was kinda' enjoying my 2012 F800 until started reading all these posts about how inferior my forks are... now I feel like a bought a piece of Sh$%t.....
Look on the bright side, at least they don't break into pieces like those on the F650 singles did!
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Old 10-03-2012, 06:33 PM   #57
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Hi...will you guys hurry up and solve this problem please:)

I pick up my 2013 F800GS in 4 weeks. I am trading my 09 F800GS. I have arranged with the dealer that I can keep my bike for one week to swap over all my accessories, and, if it fits, my suspension. I have H/D springs, and some extra work done on the internals of my forks. I was just going to swap over the internals.

But....maybe I am better off just swapping over the whole fork and keeping the 45mm fork.

For the record, if the forks are different, it is news to my BMW dealer, and his service guys. They have promised to have a close look and have an answer for me when I go and see them on Saturday.

So....a 45mm Marzocchi....or a 43mm WP. Whats the better base to build a fork from?

Im a 110kg, commute every day, but do a weekend in the high country every month, and at least two 5 day trips a year. I bolt on a set of 17"/19" tubeless wheels with conti attacks on them for the commute, but Off road is more important than on road to me.
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Old 10-04-2012, 06:13 AM   #58
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Ohlin's Fork Cartidge kit

Does anyone have experience with this product? I ordered the rear Ohlin's and for the front I purchased progressive springs w/heavier oil. All will be installed next week, but now I see Ohlin's has a cartridge kit.
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Old 10-04-2012, 11:13 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by 2wheeladv View Post
Does anyone have experience with this product? I ordered the rear Ohlin's and for the front I purchased progressive springs w/heavier oil. All will be installed next week, but now I see Ohlin's has a cartridge kit.
Search is a good tool

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...light=%F6hlins

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Old 10-05-2012, 12:14 AM   #60
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I see that Emig racing does a top clamp, and steering damper for the f800gs. If he is already jigged up for that, I cant see it being that difficult to make some triple clamps, grab 48mm WPs from a 950/990, swapping the feet for the bmw ones, machined of course, and then keeping the bmw front wheel, brakes, calipers.....
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