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Old 01-01-2014, 07:38 PM   #1
AirGsPd OP
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Flakes in Filter

Ok, so I worked on my winter project today (Anton my trusted '91 R100GS PD that I have owned for a little longer than a year) and so far I completed quite a few tasks that I have on my list to get it ready for a ride from Indianapolis to Phoenix.

I still have to do some paint touch up, the timing chain and a check of the drive shaft and final drive.

I decided to take the engine out of the frame to make it easier to work on the front of the engine as I get into the timing chain job. All oils had already been drained after the last ride. The only thing I had not done yet in preparation to take the engine out of the frame was to take the oil filter out. I did that and checked the O-ring. When I installed the filter the first time I read a lot on Anton's site and spent way too much time measuring and making sure that I do not make the $3000 O-ring mistake. Well, I did well (Thanks Anton!). The O-ring is flat on both sides and must have done it's job properly.

When I bought the bike the PO had installed the filter without a shim and with the base gasket. When I took the O-ring out for the first filter change it was suspiciously round... After measuring it myself I found that I was between one or two shims and no base gasket. Back then when I inspected the filter it looked good to me.

Well, today I inspected the filter that I had installed and found things that I did not want to see. There where silver or white particles in there as well as a goldish flake.

The timing chain seems to be very sloppy, so I did expect to find some silver shavings. If I am not incorrect the sprockets can loose some silver shavings. What really concerns me is the goldish flake.

I will try to post some pictures from the filter tomorrow. Do you guys have any idea into what direction I should start to think?

The engine has 99003 miles on the clock and seems to run well. Aside of the timing chain I have not heard too many weird sounds. Maybe a little bit of a louder tapping from the exhaust valves but I am very confident that the valves are correctly adjusted.


Right now I am a little bit panicked about my ride to Phoenix, but maybe I will just deepen my companionship with Anton before I get on the road.

I'll be thankful for all input from you guys!

Bjoern
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Old 01-02-2014, 06:41 AM   #2
Gripsteruser
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I recently found my lifters "flaked" at 40,000 mi. It also hurt my camshaft.

Could be lifter particles. Pulling jugs to confirm isn't a huge job but if you find problems then things get more expensive.
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Old 01-02-2014, 06:52 AM   #3
Rob Farmer
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Goldish flakes are usually big end shells. It's not a big job to get the con rods out to check.

I had an issue a few years ago where a seal from a oil cooler cover worked its way into the front oil gallery. The engine wasn't fitted with an oil cooler so I've never figured that one out?? The crank was fine fortunately.


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Old 01-02-2014, 05:42 PM   #4
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Pictures

Here are some pictures from my oil filter. I hope you can see something on them. I took them with my phone.



Does anybody know what these whitish almost rubberish particles are?



And here you see the brass flakes that concern me.



Thanks for all your input!

Bjoern
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Old 01-02-2014, 06:34 PM   #5
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For you own peace of mind, take it apart. Start by pulling the left cylinder and connecting rod.
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Old 01-02-2014, 06:46 PM   #6
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I definitely plan on pulling it apart!

What is the reason to start with the left cylinder?

Should I be concerned about the crank bearings at this point? What color material are they made out of?

In case I have to replace the big end shells and the crank has not been reworked, I would only have to order the regular big end shells? Is that correct?

Bjoern
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Old 01-02-2014, 07:31 PM   #7
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white rubberish particles are suggestive of the filter cover o-ring. As if a piece of one got into the engine and got chopped up somehow.
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Old 01-02-2014, 09:59 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirGsPd View Post
Does anybody know what these whitish almost rubberish particles are?
Maybe somebody used a little too much hylomar/threebond/yamabond on your cylinder base or oilpan gasket or somewhere where it squeezed into your oil.
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Old 01-02-2014, 10:34 PM   #9
Rob Farmer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirGsPd View Post
I definitely plan on pulling it apart!

What is the reason to start with the left cylinder?
That's good advice by BMWrench

The white rubbery parts are likely to be the oil filter seal breaking up the oil travels up the front of the engine, feeds the camshaft and then travels on to the front main bearing before feeding the rockers and big end on the left hand cylinder. The rear big end is fed from the rear main bearing.

My front big end failed for no apparent reason after a major rebuild. It was only when I was turning the engine over I realised there was no oil feed to the front big end.

I pulled the front bearing housing and was amazed to find a piece of rubber pop out.



Turned out it was a square seal for an oil cooler cover. There's no oil cooler on the bike so it had obviously been in the crankcase for some time and been missed during the rebuild. Mine had black rubber bits all through the engine and across the filter where the crank had chopped a little bit of rubber every time it rotated. There was also gold coloured flakes from the big end shell across the filter.


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Old 01-07-2014, 07:30 PM   #10
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Some progress

Alright, I made a little bit of progress. The engine is out and ready to be worked on,



Timing chain job is on the list too. What are your thoughts on the condition of the cam sprocket?

When I took the timing cover off I realized that there must have been oil coming out of the breather valve. Any idea aside of a blown gasket what the cause could be?



Somebody suggested to change all bearings out since I am that deep into the engine. What are your thoughts? What problems should I expect when I do that (crank out)? Would it be better to only fix what seems to be broken?



The rear of the engine seems to be dry. I did the main seal and oil pump O-ring last year.

Overall the engine needs some good cleaning.



And here is Anton waiting to be put back together.



Bjoern
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Old 01-08-2014, 06:52 AM   #11
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The real gurus will be along shortly.

Meantime- I don't see anything to worry about with oil in the breather tube. When running- the crankcase interior is a *storm* of oil being thrown about and since it's also hot it makes a lot of small oil particles that are in the air in the crankcase.

Meantime the pistons are zooming in and out changing the "air" volume in the crankcase. So the breather tube is where the inhale/exhale to the crankcase takes place. So the agitated oily air is exhaled to the tube and some of the oil drops out.

If you had massive piston blowby there would be lots of oil. But the test you can make for this is with compression. Low compression = more
blowby.

BTW- light airplane engines are very similar to the BMW boxer. And their breather system is even more primitive than ours. It's just a tube going overboard. Oil 'consumption' in many planes is fairly high by automotive standards but it's clear that a lot of that is because the oil is found on the plane's belly behind the breather exit pipe. There are add-ons for some engines which function as oil vapor precipitators to try to retain some of that oil.

(nice pictures by the way)
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Old 01-08-2014, 10:53 AM   #12
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Rather than just buy a timing chain kit I tend to inspect the tensioner blade and guide block, if they aren't worn I done replace then but always replace the crank sprocket along with the chain. A sprocket and chain is just a little more than a complete chain kit. Camshaft sprockets seldom have signs of wear so I only replace if there are signs.

What are the marks on the nose of your crank? Looks like the rotors been spinning.
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Old 01-08-2014, 03:11 PM   #13
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Outlet hole on the relief valve appears incorrect.
Should it point straight down onto the chain?
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Old 01-08-2014, 05:34 PM   #14
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I am actually not as worried about the oil in the breather tube as about the oil around the breather valve. My thought was that the gasket was no longer tight and that oil might have come out on the mating surfaces of the breather cover and the crank case.

The one thing that was on my mind though was the blowback from the pistons. I did not make a compression test yet due to a lack of equipment. The engine is burning no oil though which leads me to believe that the rings should still be good. I wanted to get a few more miles out of the top end before I rework it. Finances, finances, finances...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gripsteruser View Post
The real gurus will be along shortly.

Meantime- I don't see anything to worry about with oil in the breather tube. When running- the crankcase interior is a *storm* of oil being thrown about and since it's also hot it makes a lot of small oil particles that are in the air in the crankcase.

Meantime the pistons are zooming in and out changing the "air" volume in the crankcase. So the breather tube is where the inhale/exhale to the crankcase takes place. So the agitated oily air is exhaled to the tube and some of the oil drops out.

If you had massive piston blowby there would be lots of oil. But the test you can make for this is with compression. Low compression = more
blowby.

BTW- light airplane engines are very similar to the BMW boxer. And their breather system is even more primitive than ours. It's just a tube going overboard. Oil 'consumption' in many planes is fairly high by automotive standards but it's clear that a lot of that is because the oil is found on the plane's belly behind the breather exit pipe. There are add-ons for some engines which function as oil vapor precipitators to try to retain some of that oil.

(nice pictures by the way)
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Old 01-08-2014, 05:39 PM   #15
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Rob, good catch. I had not realized it yet. I went to look at it and it feels like it is some kind of sticky stuff and not scarring of the crank nose. Tomorrow when I work on the engine I will try to wipe it off. I do know that the rotor had been replaced before due to failure. The rotor seemed to be pretty solidly mounted on the crank when I took it off.

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What are the marks on the nose of your crank? Looks like the rotors been spinning.
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