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View Results: Are you better off now than you were 4 years ago?
Yes 65 54.17%
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:58 AM   #466
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Originally Posted by TheDudeAbides View Post

I don't think it's a stretch at all to believe there will be Bloomberg style food bans and size limitations imposed on every one of us. The gov't will deem certain foods "too unhealthy". Not long after that they will deem certain activites (motorcycle riding?) too unhealthy for the masses to be expected to insure.
Key phrase highlighted..... Please provide any kind of support for these fear tactics. That's right up there with Hillary's death panels.

The government does espouse healthy life styles. This has been in our schools for many decades. The campaign to reduce smoking is slowly working. Education has been the only tool I've seen evidence of.
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:05 AM   #467
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Originally Posted by HellSickle View Post
Key phrase highlighted..... Please provide any kind of support for these fear tactics. That's right up there with Hillary's death panels.

The government does espouse healthy life styles. This has been in our schools for many decades. The campaign to reduce smoking is slowly working. Education has been the only tool I've seen evidence of.
What about the bloomburg ref. didn't you get?

Here's some more:

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/...okers-license/

excerpt:

WASHINGTON (CBS DC) – A public health proposal suggests that tobacco smokers should be required to apply and pay for a “smoker’s license” in order to continue buying cigarettes

I will support this type of legislation.
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:10 AM   #468
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Originally Posted by HellSickle View Post
Key phrase highlighted..... Please provide any kind of support for these fear tactics. That's right up there with Hillary's death panels.

The government does espouse healthy life styles. This has been in our schools for many decades. The campaign to reduce smoking is slowly working. Education has been the only tool I've seen evidence of.
Ok, so now we're getting personal and insulting and bolding the insults in RED. Awesome.
So anyone who doesnt agree with the two of you is just dumber than you are? Nice work PrairieSickle.

Support for these tacticts.....ummm do you own a TV or have access to the internet? This has been in the news a lot lately

Health Panel Approves Restriction on Sale of Large Sugary Drinks

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/14/ny...-ban.html?_r=0


Also, in terms of your claim that cigarette sales are down because of "education", I assume you really meant to say because of tax increases

FTC Report Shows Big Decline in Cigarette Sales after 2009 Federal Cigarette Tax Increase, While Tobacco Companies Still Spend Huge Sums on Marketing



http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...170753586.html




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Old 11-16-2012, 09:15 AM   #469
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Originally Posted by HellSickle View Post
Key phrase highlighted..... Please provide any kind of support for these fear tactics. That's right up there with Hillary's death panels.

The government does espouse healthy life styles. This has been in our schools for many decades. The campaign to reduce smoking is slowly working. Education has been the only tool I've seen evidence of.
I don't know, Jeff...and please don't highlight my "I don't know"...tobacco products had the crap taxed out of them which had to have some impact on their use. Education can be a big part of any reduction in unhealthy practices, but zealots in the campaigns against such practices have tended to want bans, fees, taxes, or whatever method they could use to achieve their goals. Hey, I hate smoking and its results, but we really don't know what the next target might be. New York mayor Dumberg probably gives a little peek under the curtain as to what food health activists might want to pursue. I know it sounds crazy, but some of these people are crazy...PETA as an example of not eating your family dog as a comparison against having turkey. I know that's an extreme example, but these knotheads are out there who know what kind of lifestyle we "need" to be living. I don't think anything is going to happen overnight, but this kind of "good for your welfare" creep does seem to occur in our society and not always just from an educational, voluntary approach. And I'll go further to say that perhaps not all of this is bad, but the targets can get rather broad at times.
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:22 AM   #470
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Former Obama "Car Czar" advisor Rattner says "We need death panels"

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/op...care.html?_r=1

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Old 11-16-2012, 09:28 AM   #471
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Originally Posted by HellSickle View Post
Key phrase highlighted..... Please provide any kind of support for these fear tactics. That's right up there with Hillary's death panels.
They don't call them DEATH PANELS in medicine, yet! But they will. Decision algorithms are common in medicine and decisions are made based on probably outcomes.

How about when they decide that someone with prior back surgery, of a certain age and weight etc etc, should no longer be treated with xxx or xxx and it affects YOUR family personally and there is no other options for you under the ACA??

What will you do? Well if you think there are better alternatives or options you will seek them out and probably pay more for them if you can, and maybe even go broke trying to buy other services for your ailing back and family member.

Hmm.. sound familiar That's right, no different than what we have now only you and everyone else and our future generations will be paying through the nose for this wonderful ACA that you all want.

Ask any Canadian where they go when they really need serious healthcare beyond what their government provides and how much out of pocket they pay for it. And, Geek doesn't count because he is not living in Canada anymore, and well, he lives in Boulder!

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Old 11-16-2012, 10:19 AM   #472
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Former Obama "Car Czar" advisor Rattner says "We need death panels"

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/op...care.html?_r=1
Boy you sure know how to spin an article title don't you? Did you even read it? And on that subject I have sworn off any needs for hospitals unless it is 'mechanical repairs' and I would gladly give all my health care coverage to my one son who is self employed, as would my wife to his wife. So if there really are going to be death panels in the distant future I will be the first in line to volunteer. Sort of like taking a 18 year old and sending him to the front line. All able men should volunteer and enable the women and children to stay at home. Right? (notice tongue in cheek, please).
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:23 AM   #473
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Boy you sure know how to spin an article title don't you? Did you even read it?

Did you read it?

It was written by Rattner and the opening line is "WE need death panels"

By STEVEN RATTNER

Published: September 16, 2012

WE need death panels.







His words, his idealogy. Not mine.

And yes, I read the entire article.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:53 AM   #474
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Did you read it?

It was written by Rattner and the opening line is "WE need death panels"

By STEVEN RATTNER

Published: September 16, 2012

WE need death panels.







His words, his idealogy. Not mine.

And yes, I read the entire article.
You are not smart enough to realize that his entry four words were intended to attract attention. But yet he didn't increase the font by a factor of four like you tend to do when you are on a rant. Here is what he said in case you want to read it sometime:
Well, maybe not death panels, exactly, but unless we start allocating health care resources more prudently — rationing, by its proper name — the exploding cost of Medicare will swamp the federal budget.
Most notably, President Obama’s estimable Affordable Care Act regrettably includes severe restrictions on any reduction in Medicare services or increase in fees to beneficiaries. In 2009, Sarah Palin’s rant about death panels even forced elimination from the bill of a provision to offer end-of-life consultations.
,,,,,,,
The Obama and Ryan plans are not without common ground; both propose an identical formula for capping the growth in Medicare spending per beneficiary. And both dip into the same toolbox (particularly lower payments to providers) to achieve a reduction of nearly $1 trillion in Medicare expenditures over the next decade from projected levels.
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:20 PM   #475
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Originally Posted by doc_ricketts View Post
You are not smart enough to realize that his entry four words were intended to attract attention. But yet he didn't increase the font by a factor of four like you tend to do when you are on a rant. Here is what he said in case you want to read it sometime:
Well, maybe not death panels, exactly, but unless we start allocating health care resources more prudently — rationing, by its proper name — the exploding cost of Medicare will swamp the federal budget.
Most notably, President Obama’s estimable Affordable Care Act regrettably includes severe restrictions on any reduction in Medicare services or increase in fees to beneficiaries. In 2009, Sarah Palin’s rant about death panels even forced elimination from the bill of a provision to offer end-of-life consultations.
,,,,,,,
The Obama and Ryan plans are not without common ground; both propose an identical formula for capping the growth in Medicare spending per beneficiary. And both dip into the same toolbox (particularly lower payments to providers) to achieve a reduction of nearly $1 trillion in Medicare expenditures over the next decade from projected levels.
I read the article. In it's entirety. And I am smart enough to know that the author (Rattner, and Obama advisor) could have started the article with any 4 words he wanted. He chose "WE need death panels" (Emphasis his). He then goes on to explain that since Palin's rant, the phrase death panels has been stricken and replaced with the new, user friendly term "rationing".
What does rationing mean?
ra·tion(rshn, rshn)
n. 1. A fixed portion, especially an amount of food allotted to persons in military service or to civilians in times of scarcity.
2. rations Food issued or available to members of a group.

tr.v. ra·tioned, ra·tion·ing, ra·tions 1. To supply with rations.
2. To distribute as rations: rationed out flour and sugar. See Synonyms at distribute.
3. To restrict to limited allotments, as during wartime.

It means one group of people will restrict, distribute and allocate healthcare to another group. So who are those in the group that does the determining for the other group?

A committe perhaps? A board of some sort? A um, I dunno, a panel perhaps?

The point of Rattner's entire op ed piece was stated in his first sentence. "WE need death panels". He said it, he meant it, and he went on in great detail to justify his position. And this is the guy who has Obama's ear. Hell he talked him into cash for clunkers.
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:48 PM   #476
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Originally Posted by TheDudeAbides View Post
I read the article. In it's entirety. And I am smart enough to know that the author (Rattner, and Obama advisor) could have started the article with any 4 words he wanted. He chose "WE need death panels" (Emphasis his). He then goes on to explain that since Palin's rant, the phrase death panels has been stricken and replaced with the new, user friendly term "rationing".
What does rationing mean?
ra·tion(rshn, rshn)
n. 1. A fixed portion, especially an amount of food allotted to persons in military service or to civilians in times of scarcity.
2. rations Food issued or available to members of a group.

tr.v. ra·tioned, ra·tion·ing, ra·tions 1. To supply with rations.
2. To distribute as rations: rationed out flour and sugar. See Synonyms at distribute.
3. To restrict to limited allotments, as during wartime.

It means one group of people will restrict, distribute and allocate healthcare to another group. So who are those in the group that does the determining for the other group?

A committe perhaps? A board of some sort? A um, I dunno, a panel perhaps?

The point of Rattner's entire op ed piece was stated in his first sentence. "WE need death panels". He said it, he meant it, and he went on in great detail to justify his position. And this is the guy who has Obama's ear. Hell he talked him into cash for clunkers.
You can't read or certainly understand. Proportionate rationing of health care for people who are not going to be helped was advocated by both Obama and Ryan. As I have said you can ration my body and my health care any way you want if it helps some young person who would die without it. Now people who refuse to help kids and young self employed people are really the ones supporting present 'death panels'. But you go ahead an preserve your rights to $200,000 elective surgeries and other things that deprive some 21 year old working gal from getting her health care because she had a spot on her chest at one point.
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:54 PM   #477
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You can't read or certainly understand. Proportionate rationing of health care for people who are not going to be helped was advocated by both Obama and Ryan. As I have said you can ration my body and my health care any way you want if it helps some young person who would die without it. Now people who refuse to help kids and young self employed people are really the ones supporting present 'death panels'. But you go ahead an preserve your rights to $200,000 elective surgeries and other things that deprive some 21 year old working gal from getting her health care because she had a spot on her chest at one point.


Doc, I've never questioned your intelligence or your ability to read.

I claim that Rattner said we need death panels. If I'm wrong prove me wrong.

But I'm done trying to have a rational conversation with your crotchety old self.
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:02 PM   #478
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Boy you sure know how to spin an article title don't you? Did you even read it? And on that subject I have sworn off any needs for hospitals unless it is 'mechanical repairs' and I would gladly give all my health care coverage to my one son who is self employed, as would my wife to his wife. So if there really are going to be death panels in the distant future I will be the first in line to volunteer. Sort of like taking a 18 year old and sending him to the front line. All able men should volunteer and enable the women and children to stay at home. Right? (notice tongue in cheek, please).
doc, you'll be the first in line for the death panel? We need that vid clip from "Soylent Green" again, except in this one doc will be playing Edward G. Robinson heading off to the meat grinder so the rest of us can eat.

And yes, my tongue is in my cheek too.
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:31 PM   #479
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doc, you'll be the first in line for the death panel? We need that vid clip from "Soylent Green" again, except in this one doc will be playing Edward G. Robinson heading off to the meat grinder so the rest of us can eat.

And yes, my tongue is in my cheek too.
Yeah, I will be first in line. As I said I would give my life or my insurance in a minute for my self employed son (and wife). I don't want to be eaten though, cause my will says I will be placed in my kayak and sent out to drift in the Gulf Stream near the Bahamas. It is funny that such terms as 'death panels' get played over and over again, but kids and young mothers who can't get health care at all now are not terribly amused by the GOPers fanning the limp brains of their ilk with the term. The article was making fun of these GOPers and pointing out that we have a real problem with the health care system that both Obama and Ryan recognize and neither of these politicians or none of their associates recommended death panels. The writer was trying to catch attention of knee jerkers such as TheDude.
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:37 PM   #480
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... The writer was trying to catch attention of knee jerkers such as TheDude.
That's not a very high bar for the writer to set.

I guess Rush L. is still on the air because there is a huge audience for fear based media.
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