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Old 10-05-2012, 09:47 AM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamm View Post
Well, I see loose sand (or some other loose material) right where the tire tracks stop before the crash. Put your front wheel in that sort of thing without being ready for it and you'll go down in a blink of an eye.
I read that RR - That is exactly what happened. An older guy like me was blowin' down the road and hit soft sand which surprised him, and suddenly everything went wrong. Ended up in a NM ER, then medflighted to his own docs for recovery. And I agree, if are surprised by soft and deep sand, you can go down in a flash on a heavy bike like that. I almost did the same thing in 2005 aboard my KTM 950 in southern Utah. I thought I had a flat the bars were waggling so much. After I got her woah'd up and saw it was sand I had no more problems.

The wreck in the pics was part of a large group of big bike riders from the east coast. They planned it for months and posted it in a mega thread in the planning forum. It turned out they had a large spread of skills and equipment. They never even completed the whole CDR, save some thumper riders that broke off from the group and went ahead early on.

Regarding big bikes, I liked my KTM 950 and rode it all through the west and great white north many times and on all surfaces. Smaller bikes are just a lot more handy, particularly solo. As an example, I managed to ride my 250 down Camp Creek Wash between Bartlett Lake and Rio Verde in Arizona. This is a deep sand drainage 13 miles long and decends 1300 feet in elevation. It took me three tries until I finally installed a new front tire. I was able to do it in about 30 minutes. There is no way I could ride that wash on my 950.

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Old 10-05-2012, 10:01 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by Mangle View Post
Troll-lol-lol-lol.

I seriously looked at getting the Honda CRF-250L. I think that is a remarkable bike. The reason I went for a larger bike (VStrom 650) is that, for instance, I rode 600 miles last weekend and only hit about 30-40 miles of smooth gravel.

If I'm not going to do anything to crazy, and I have a lot of high-speed asphalt to cover, I'll stick with the larger bike. My limitations on this trip were tires, not weight. (And I was doing about 100 up and down the mountains on I-68 behind a guy on a blue KTM. Always nice to have a riding buddy.)

Do I want a small bike, yeah, someday. Do I like my big(er) bike? Yeah, it does what I need.

Now I'll sit back and watch the troll-wars.
Good points. Thanks. I am more gravel/ dirt/ mountain singletrack focused with the abiity to carry my backpack camp and travel highway (as little as is necessary).

When at the Honda shop I looked at the NX700X. Looked pretty good to me- but my last street bike was that GT750 (dinosaur!). But I resist more street riding to keep the family happy- they are worried enough
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:06 AM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierra Thumper View Post
How do you crash an adventure bike on a road like that? I've had my pure streetbikes on roads like those no issue
I suspect those are cases of too much bike for too little rider
Sudden soft sand can be sketchy. On the WABDR in August were some sections of sudden sand on the road. I saw some comments about that. I was glad to have my little clown motorcycle (it is small, I am not, clown looking?) when I hit that sand. A small 230L with big fat new D606 knobbies has traction and flotation advantages in my estimation.
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:11 AM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1 lunger View Post
IMHO, you really need to take rider ability, height and weight in to account. I ride a Husqvarna TE 610 in some of the nastiest terrain with 250 2t guys and do just fine or better. I can still do 80 mph with current gearing, put a +1 up front and I could slab all day! Back to my point, if you weigh 150lbs then a 300lb dirt bike / DS might not work for you. If you're 250lbs than a 230lb bike might not work for you either. There's a lot of variables and they all need to be taken in to consideration. Having tried lots of bikes in my life, one of the most important things is suspension! If the bike is sprung proper for your weight and the type of riding you do, you're 90% ahead of the game! This, IMHO is one of the best all around bikes! have I crashed on gravel? YES! Very hard! Was it because of the bike? NO! Hard packed or gravel roads can be like ice on any bike! Push it and you might go down.
True. Yes, that is a nice motorcycle! The dealer in OR, when I was touring to beach ride on the sand, really talked up the TE310 that he wanted to replace my little dog 230L. I have chatted with someone I know that really likes his TE310 and Huskies.
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:19 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by NJ-Brett View Post
These kinds of crashes can get older guys a hospital stay.
Its pot luck how you land or what you hit.
Add rocks, whoops, trees, ditches and it gets even more likely.

I enjoyed the bigger 650 power, and thought it was no problem for me to handle the weight except in the very rough stuff at high speed, where it was a lot of work, but work is good for you no? Get you in shape, makes you sleep well at night.

After flying down rough trails and riding the bike like it was a motocross bike, I ended up falling in some sandy whoops at low speed (20 mph) and got my helicopter ride and hospital stay.

If you plan on a long rough trip, its something to think about, as there is nothing worse then having big plans for a long great ride cut short by broken bones.

If I was 20 or 30 years younger, the 650 would have been a fantastic bike for me.
Yep, wisdom here!

The smaller bikes, with modern performance, offer ease in operating and a safety margin. Less weight riding on about the same amount of knobby tire, easy handing.

True also that I can pick up my little bike or push it off me if I ever end up under it.

Some of us get to the point after sustaining and overcoming injuries that we avoid any more injuries It increases one's focus to rip around on a motorcycle having lived through some serious injuries in the past
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:22 AM   #156
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Check out any Big Wan, Little Wan ride report for big(ger) bikes, packed with stuff, riding two up in terrain a lot of people wouldn't ride a much smaller bike. If you think big bikes can't handle the hard stuff well, they prove otherwise, and they don't need a trailer to get to the trail (8400 miles on the link posted below).

Here's a link
http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=817794
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:35 AM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjturbo View Post
My old dirt bike had 12 inches of travel. I've looked at the WRR also and it's still in the running. According to the specs the Freeride has the same suspension travel as the WRR and the same seatheight. Seat height is important to me as at my age I can't get my leg over a regular KTM. Now, between the WRR and the Freeride. I have done a lot of single track in WA in the past but now do mostly fire roads and two track. However, when I see a single track take off I always want to try it. From what I've read on the web the Freeride should be better on single track especially if you go slow, which is what I do now. On the flip side, the WRR should be better on the fireroads. I'm a prisoner of indecision. It would be nice if the Freeride shows up to help make the choice.

Phil
I too think the Freeride looks interesting. I think the WRR would be by far the better traveling with luggage, but nowhere near as good off-road.

Actually, a Freeride and a WRR would be ideal for me.

OK, a Freeride and a WRR and my CBF1000.

Or better, a Freeride and a WRR and a Street Triple and a Road Glide.

Better stop now.
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:38 AM   #158
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Pretty nice without smoke after weeks of terrible smoke here. I had a nice run up a mountain ridge and wil go for a hike up a peak in a minute. My daughter won her 8th Grade XC run race in the park last evening in the crisp and sunny indian summer weather.

Phil I had quit thinking about the Freeride. Now you are peaking my interest, again- "the Freeride has the same suspension travel as the WRR and the same seatheight"! IMO, that is a proper reasonable motorcycle, as is my little dog 230L

There is this addiction, I have had it, sort of like looking at females, an addiction to have a motorcycle that roosts when gassed and then has strong brakes to grab. Nothing wrong with that if that is what one likes, but there is another level of appreciating motorcycle riding. On the Baja movie the pro mx guy was saying "slower is faster, slower is faster" to the mechanic- I think that applies. I enjoy it when I ride cleanly, no bumps, bobbles, or crashes, smooth motion. And that efficient smooth riding can be faster than roosting, braking, struggling sometimes.AND less painful if one rides smoothly...and that is why I enjoy my little dog 230L, smooth consistent speed, no big accel-decel (not capable).

I wonder if I am lazy (probably) or practical, but seat height is not a huge deal, I just like the practical advantage in the mountains and just ease of riding, stopping, turning, anything, of a low seat height

I do ride a lot of singetrack in the mountains, usually on my midweek days off, usually solo. Fortunate that it is just up the road from my home to access hundreds of miles of FS roads and trails.Since I ride to enjoy the mountains and the ride, usually solo, I give no thought to whether I am fast(er) or slow or what anyone else does. I also go in the mountains year-around hiking, running, mountain biking, Jeep, ski, snowmobile, Riding my motorcycle is just a seasonal variation of traveling through beautiful country.

Like you, I will continue to ponder. I think the WRR has the bugs worked out and has been proven time and again. But the Freeride would be superior in the tight and gnarly as is my little dog 230L

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjturbo View Post
PS; I'm in Des Monies, just south of Sea Tac airport.


Yes, I had interest in the Freeride 350. One comment online was that it was 'about the size of a CRF230'!

The thought that I am forming from reading forums and TRs is perhaps the WR250R is the best design for what I want to do. Funny how I have to convince myself. When I was young I would have thrown down for a KTM or BMW or something foolish- now that I have some $$ I do not tend to rush out to buy something....my wife has had an influence on me

I am thinking better suspension would be nice, I had some one time on my IT490[/QUOTE

Glad the smoke is gone. Yes, suspension is why I'm looking to change. My old dirt bike had 12 inches of travel. I've looked at the WRR also and it's still in the running. According to the specs the Freeride has the same suspension travel as the WRR and the same seatheight. Seat height is important to me as at my age I can't get my leg over a regular KTM. Now, between the WRR and the Freeride. I have done a lot of single track in WA in the past but now do mostly fire roads and two track. However, when I see a single track take off I always want to try it. From what I've read on the web the Freeride should be better on single track especially if you go slow, which is what I do now. On the flip side, the WRR should be better on the fireroads. I'm a prisoner of indecision. It would be nice if the Freeride shows up to help make the choice.

Phil[/QUOTE]

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Old 10-05-2012, 10:46 AM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acesandeights View Post
Check out any Big Wan, Little Wan ride report for big(ger) bikes, packed with stuff, riding two up in terrain a lot of people wouldn't ride a much smaller bike. If you think big bikes can't handle the hard stuff well, they prove otherwise, and they don't need a trailer to get to the trail (8400 miles on the link posted below).

Here's a link
http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=817794
True, good points. Those rides are on KTM Adventure motorcycles. Those are fine rides, in a class of their own. I saw a couple on a KTM Adventure on the WABDR doing just fine. Someone here posted some significant singletrackmountain riding on his KTM Adventure. A local guy I talk to tells me about riding singletrack mountain FS trails on his 990.
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Old 10-05-2012, 12:31 PM   #160
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Here is a video I made riding in deep sand along a beach in Baja. I was on my 690 and the tour leader was on a 690. The guy I was following for a lot of the video was on a 950SE. He is a much faster and younger rider than me but was having to work way more than us in the sand. He was working very hard to keep a pace and I was just cruising. As you can see from the opening picture we had one GS1200 that ventured onto the beach and buried its back wheel! An expert rider could probably get that GS1200 to go down the beach but it would not have been any fun! Also I stop and lose my balance a bit and dump my bike in the sand. No big deal to pick it up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBRDPFNY_rA&feature=plcp
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:59 PM   #161
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Thumb 2012 KTM Freeride 350 First Look: Motorcycle USA

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/666/11...irst-Look.aspx




...The 2012 KTM Freeride 350 is a fuel-injected enduro model designed for maximum weight savings and rider-friendly power...



...The idea of a 350cc dirt bike weighing only 218 pounds is intriguing to say the least. More accurately, the idea is salivating! However, KTM claims the single-cylinder engine will produce only 24 horsepower. By comparison, the KTM 350 SX-F (246 pounds curb weight) put out 45.2 hp on the dyno ...KTM is positioning the Freeride as an entry machine, calling it “an invitation to all those who have until now had no contact with this fascinating sport.” ...KTM's Freeride 350 (top) is aimed at entry enduro riders... The KTM Freeride electric...Despite the company slogan, Ready to Race, this machine is targeted at off-road fun, not winning races. The Freeride 350 uses a composite frame with aluminum and steel components which look similar to the electric Freeride chassis. An inverted WP fork and monoshock handle suspension. Judging from photos, spoked wheels with Excel A60 rims will be shod in tires with tightly spaced, small-block treads, likely a dual sport tread or non-competition trials tire such as the Pirelli MT43 trials tire. The Freeride 350 has a headlight and license plate holder, but we cannot see any turn signals and the available info says nothing about on-road licensing...
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:13 PM   #162
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Check the Freeride thread on this forum. It doesn't weigh 228 lbs. wet without compromise. There is NO rear subframe; the steering head geometry is that of a TRIALS bike - steep compared to a DS or Enduro bike; the stator on the 350 EXC is 196 watts - IF the Freeride gets this stator, it will be marginal, but it may be smaller. There is not kick starter (to save weight).

The Freeride is a hybrid Trials / trail bike, designed for day use. It is not a DS bike, although I'm sure some will use it as such. Just be aware of the compromises.

The post above also quotes early release specs. After sales experience in the UK, the ECU was retuned to deliver 30 hp (24 hp received too many complaints wrt displacement and the 350 EXC). And KTM has clarified that if (when?) it is brought to the US it will be street legal.

I suggest taking this conversation to the Freeride thread, to avoid another 20 pages of duplication and possibly spreading old information. The Freeride is scheduled to be in the US next year, but KTM has changed their mind before. Lots of us are holding our breath. But with no rear subframe, it won't do what most of us are talking about on this thread.
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:16 PM   #163
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KTM Freeride 350: Top Speed

http://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/...-ar123881.html



...Based on the successful power unit of the 350 EXC-F, the engine of the Freeride 350 has nevertheless been redesigned for the new vehicle concept. In so doing, the kickstarter has been dispensed with for the benefit of minimal weight and more compact dimensions and a new engine case has been developed in ultra-light, die-cast (instead of sand-cast) aluminum. By re-dimensioning the exhaust and airbox, the engineers consciously designed the engine for torque rather than race performance in order to retain as effective - i.e. high-traction and power-saving - engine characteristics as possible, above all in tough terrain...


Specifications



Design Single-Cylinder, 4-Stroke, Spark-Ignition Engine, Liquid-Cooled
Displacement 349.7 Cm³
Bore 88 Mm
Stroke 57.5 Mm
Starting Aid Electric Starter
Transmission 6-Speed, Claw Shifted
Engine Lubrication Forced Oil Lubrication With 2 Eaton Pumps
Primary Gear Ratio 24:73
Secondary Gear Ratio 11:48
Cooling System Liquid Cooling System, Continuous Circulation Of Cooling Liquid With Water Pump
Clutch Wet Multi-Disc Clutch / Hydraulically Operated
Ignition System Contactless, Controlled, Fully Electronic Ignition System With Digital Ignition Timing Adjustment
Frame Perimeter Steel-Aluminum Composite Frame
Fork WP Suspension4357 MXMA
Shock Absorber WP Suspension 4618 PDS DCC
Suspension Travel Front 250 Mm
Suspension Travel Rear 260 Mm
Brake System Front Formula Disc Brakes
Brake System Rear Formula Disc Brakes
Brake Discs - Diameter Front 240 Mm
Brake Discs - Diameter Rear 210 Mm
Chain 5/8 X 1/4” X‑Ring
Steering Head Angle 67°
Wheelbase 1,418±10 Mm
Ground Clearance (Unloaded) 325 Mm
Seat Height (Unloaded) 895 Mm
Total Fuel Tank Capacity Approx. 5.5 L Unleaded Premium Fuel (95 RON)
Weight Without Fuel Approx. 99.5 Kg
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:37 PM   #164
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What is your point?

copy/paste does not a valid post make
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:58 PM   #165
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Thanks, good information, what I suspected and wanted to know.

It came up here so good discussion. Did I need to contact you or someone about what to post? Not.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryphon12 View Post
Check the Freeride thread on this forum. It doesn't weigh.228 lbs. wet without compromise. There is NO rear subframe; the steering head geometry is that of a TRIALS bike - steep compared to a DS or Enduro bike; the stator on the 350 EXC is 196 watts - IF the Freeride gets this stator, it will be marginal, but it may be smaller. There is not kick starter (to save weight).

The Freeride is a hybrid Trials / trail bike, designed for day use. It is not a DS bike, although I'm sure some will use it as such. Just be aware of the compromises.

The post above also quotes early release specs. After sales experience in the UK, the ECU was retuned to deliver 30 hp (24 hp received too many complaints wrt displacement and the 350 EXC). And KTM has clarified that if (when?) it is brought to the US it will be street legal.

I suggest taking this conversation to the Freeride thread, to avoid another 20 pages of duplication and possibly spreading old information. The Freeride is scheduled to be in the US next year, but KTM has changed their mind before. Lots of us are holding our breath. But with no rear subframe, it won't do what most of us are talking about on this thread.

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