ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Old's Cool > Airheads
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-26-2013, 01:03 PM   #271
globalt38
Swimmin W/Waterwings
 
globalt38's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2013
Location: Atlanta
Oddometer: 646
Functional

Quote:
Originally Posted by hardwaregrrl View Post
The turn signals are seriously Ghetto mounted. I'l take a pic.
Hey - if "Ghetto" works well - then "Ghetto's" Good!
__________________
'94 R100GSPD

You can have my Airhead when you pry it from my cold dead fingers!
I only subscribe to the Girl on an old motorcycle: Post your pics! thread for the comments!
globalt38 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2013, 02:20 PM   #272
hardwaregrrl OP
ignore list
 
hardwaregrrl's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta
Oddometer: 7,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by globalt38 View Post
Hey - if "Ghetto" works well - then "Ghetto's" Good!
When I bought the bike I got a bag of stock turn signals. I've gone through them......maybe 4 sets??? cheap and functional is where I'm at now.
hardwaregrrl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2013, 03:04 PM   #273
globalt38
Swimmin W/Waterwings
 
globalt38's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2013
Location: Atlanta
Oddometer: 646
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardwaregrrl View Post
When I bought the bike I got a bag of stock turn signals. I've gone through them......maybe 4 sets??? cheap and functional is where I'm at now.
I've ordered a set of LED turn signals for $13 a pair (amazon) that I think will work/be brite! Just waiting on an electronic relay from sbleds (as recomended! ). Once they come and I find the time to hook em up (which will involve finding or jury-rigging a bracket) - I'll show and tell.
__________________
'94 R100GSPD

You can have my Airhead when you pry it from my cold dead fingers!
I only subscribe to the Girl on an old motorcycle: Post your pics! thread for the comments!
globalt38 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2013, 07:42 PM   #274
hardwaregrrl OP
ignore list
 
hardwaregrrl's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta
Oddometer: 7,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stagehand View Post
I had an XT350 that I could never break the turn signals off of, despite heavy destructive testing. So when I needed new ones for the PD, I got Yamaha OEM
Those signals fit the PD very well!! Did you get the shifter stuff worked out??
hardwaregrrl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2013, 08:24 PM   #275
Stagehand
+/- V TDSPP
 
Stagehand's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Shawangunks
Oddometer: 25,790
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardwaregrrl View Post
Those signals fit the PD very well!! Did you get the shifter stuff worked out??
In progress! I botched the email, so it took a few extra days, hopefully hear something back soon. I have a line on a sweet clamshell airbox, though

Tell me again about your taillight? Any wiring changes, or did you just splice it right in?
__________________
Unintentional psychokinesis.
Stagehand is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2013, 09:02 PM   #276
hardwaregrrl OP
ignore list
 
hardwaregrrl's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta
Oddometer: 7,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stagehand View Post
In progress! I botched the email, so it took a few extra days, hopefully hear something back soon. I have a line on a sweet clamshell airbox, though

Tell me again about your taillight? Any wiring changes, or did you just splice it right in?
I spliced it right in. All LED tail/break lights are white ground, black tail, red brake. I had already spliced in a LED harness for my old taillight. This one kicks the old ones ass!!!!!
hardwaregrrl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 03:21 PM   #277
hardwaregrrl OP
ignore list
 
hardwaregrrl's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta
Oddometer: 7,244
What I was doing all last weekend.....

hardwaregrrl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 03:26 PM   #278
Deadly99
Fast and Far
 
Deadly99's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Merrickville, Canada
Oddometer: 9,018
I like the Chasin Jason video better
__________________
Tales From The Bivouac Rally Print Publications

TCAT (Trans Canada Adventure Trail)


Gravel Travel Canada - Canada's Source for Overland Travel
Deadly99 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 05:06 PM   #279
One Less Harley
OH.THAT'S GONNA HURT
 
One Less Harley's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Bowling Green, Ky
Oddometer: 4,657
i've got similar turn signals, except just a regular bulb. They are small and durable. The fronts are some Ebay knock off of a F650 turnsignal.

__________________
2004 BMW R1150RS
1984 BMW R80G/S
(wrenching index)
2003 Suzuki DRZ 400S (TAT Prep)
One More DRZ does the TAT (Ride Report)

One Less Harley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 05:56 PM   #280
hardwaregrrl OP
ignore list
 
hardwaregrrl's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta
Oddometer: 7,244
Guess I need to drag this ass shite over here.....


Fucked up my steering stem. After doing a lot of handlebar turns in my rider coach prep class, I figured I should check my head bearings. Well, I buggered the stem, and it is currently out to be repaired...or .....it's getting a new shiny steel stem. Yeah!!!! Maybe that one can withstand my asshatery????

 photo A9CEA70A-810D-43E1-A61A-4356A874FB86-4370-000007FE155EA15A_zpse83606d2.jpg

 photo 49AF2995-E8A6-41B2-8739-C0A797C18629-4976-00000933D06D509E_zpsfe345197.jpg

 photo 91690D69-CD36-4FD7-8498-7A1AFA31D6C9-4976-00000933C16BAA2A_zps3f3a8140.jpg
hardwaregrrl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 06:10 PM   #281
Airhead Wrangler
Adios Mexico
 
Airhead Wrangler's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Back in Seattle, FINALLY
Oddometer: 6,430
Be sure to shoot some fo-toes of the steel replacement before you put it in. I'm still unconvinced that the steering head bearing preload bolt should get any REAL torque on it. That's very against everything I've ever learned about bearings. Loading a bearing that hard will definitely shorten its life. If tightening up the "feel" of the steering is the stated goal then get a steering damper. Bearings shouldn't be used to provide resistance. /rant. Seriously though, give us faux-toze.
__________________
R80ST Gets The HPN Treatment
Seattle to TDF on an airhead

Current rides: HPN #834, '93 R100GSPD "red rocket", '73 R75/5 Toaster mongrel, '80 Ducati Pantah 500SL, '92 DR350, '67 Honda SS50, '80 Honda Chaly.
Airhead Wrangler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 06:30 PM   #282
Stagehand
+/- V TDSPP
 
Stagehand's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Shawangunks
Oddometer: 25,790
If I many jump unasked into the middle of a conversation I have only been eavesdropping on, I have ot agree with AW... all the bearings I know get tightened to 20 pounds or something, then slacks and touched to 5 and then locked off. Its a black, black art that everyone can enjoy.
__________________
Unintentional psychokinesis.
Stagehand is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 06:36 PM   #283
hardwaregrrl OP
ignore list
 
hardwaregrrl's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta
Oddometer: 7,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airhead Wrangler View Post
Be sure to shoot some fo-toes of the steel replacement before you put it in. I'm still unconvinced that the steering head bearing preload bolt should get any REAL torque on it. That's very against everything I've ever learned about bearings. Loading a bearing that hard will definitely shorten its life. If tightening up the "feel" of the steering is the stated goal then get a steering damper. Bearings shouldn't be used to provide resistance. /rant. Seriously though, give us faux-toze.
Will do....and I agree on torque on the bearings. but my problem was the stem was too large to let the top bearing settle in the race.....thusly.............I was torquing the holy shite out of it!!!! I know you know this....but for everyone elses benifit. I will post pics regardless.
hardwaregrrl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 07:46 PM   #284
ontic
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Melbourne
Oddometer: 1,069
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airhead Wrangler View Post
I'm still unconvinced that the steering head bearing preload bolt should get any REAL torque on it. That's very against everything I've ever learned about bearings. Loading a bearing that hard will definitely shorten its life. If tightening up the "feel" of the steering is the stated goal then get a steering damper. Bearings shouldn't be used to provide resistance. /rant.
No need for a rant when it can be an interesting conversation
I hope you don't mind Jenna?

Spencer, what do you consider 'REAL' torque?
In this set up (and importantly, doing this on the centrestand with the front wheel unsupported) I needed around 25 ft lb on the torque wrench before I got the right 'feel', and by feel I mostly mean fallaway, and then when the right fallaway was achieved, riding it and testing if it felt right (30 felt too tight, 20 a little too sloppy and I set it somewhere in the middle). Also, I've got a steering damper, I am not trying to tighten up the steering, just set it 'right' and not set it too loose. Objectivity here is difficult.
Torquing by fallaway is torquing by bearing resistance and by feel but with an attempt at avoiding individual subjectivity. Do you set yours by fallaway?
The 'Bum gives an actual torque value, not for setting the bearing preload (that I could find- and this would differ with some models such as the GS) but for the resistance to continue to turn the forks once they are moving.
It is not his preferred method but this value is 30(+or-2) Inch Pounds (2.5 ft Lb).
Again this is the force it takes to continue turning the steering stem by the top nut- I suspect that is a little more than the frictional force of the grease and if so then the bearings are being used to provide resistance.

As alluded to, like others I've used tapered roller bearings in my 4x4 wheel bearings and sure, after a high torque to seat them, they get a very different treatment- depending on whose side of the argument basically eliminating almost all the play, or just eliminating all the play- and then choosing the closest position to bend a tab into a crown nut... but while the bearings are similar the application and loads are very different (huge amount of rotation, thermal expansion, potential to sieze, etc).
I've also set actual preload (by adjusting shim thickness) on tapered rollers again in the transfer case (output shafts) in my 4x4- this is determined similar to the 'Bums method by using a beam torque wrench and measuring the resistance it takes to keep it turning. Similar bearings (though very different contact angle), very different application and some serious torque involved with much higher turning bearing resistance (I could check in my Toyota manual but I don't see the point).

Tapered roller bearings that look the same get very different treatment in different applications. Yes, it is often a black art and many applications when you look into it often has various 'by feel' ways to do it.
IMO, we don't want our steering head bearings set too tight- more for handling than for bearing life (if these were rotating and wearing and expanding like a wheel bearing then bearing life would be an issue if a little too tight- heat is the killer)- for bearing life in this application what we certainly don't want is any slack or play- even a micro amount of this will hammer the bearings and reduce bearing life and create those all to familiar grooves much sooner.
The trick is to set it right- how to get there in this application is the argument.

Mabye one of the problems we are dealing with here is that due to the old BMW design (torquing a crown nut- then squashing the whole thing down to the other side of the thread with the top nut) it is difficult to give an actual torque figure, so we are used to setting this stuff via various different and fallible black art methods.

KTM give an actual torque figure for that blind nut and it is 7.4 ft lb. Is that 'REAL' torque?
We've used bearings with a significantly different (steeper) contact angle. Spencer, you have also agreed that different contact angle tapered rollers require different torques.
I think out of this we could agree that because of this the 7.4 ft lb figure needs to be increased?
To what I don't know.

In light of all this I don't feel that my described method of using 25 ft lb is too excessive- we could just set by fallaway like most of us do for our airheads, but this time we actually have a nice big nut on top that we can put a torque wrench on and measure- setting by fallaway and how it rides got me to this torque.
Admittedly I haven't tested this stuff for many many months, so I will re-evaluate soon and I tend to set my steering bearings a little on the tight side (been down the loose side and it was not good). Maybe 20 would be OK, I don't know- I can say for certain than 7.4 ft lb didn't feel nearly tight enough and felt like there was still play happening.


I also strongly believe that using 20-25 ft lb on 8mm of aluminium to aluminium thread (with the newer short thread blind nut that came with my new stem) in this application is not a good idea and although Jenna's story has many complications that sort of damage is what what I feared would eventuate.

I don't know why or when KTM changed the length of thread on the blind nut from the 20mm or so that came with the stem on my WP50 forks, to the 8mm or so that came in the new stem from HPMGuy. Might be an interesting twist.
__________________
1974 R90/6
1981 R80G/S
1994 XLR250R

ontic screwed with this post 05-15-2013 at 01:22 AM
ontic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2013, 06:37 AM   #285
bpeckm
Grin!
 
bpeckm's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Road Island
Oddometer: 5,754
Good discussion!

...but I am not following this reference:
Quote:
I also strongly believe that using 20-25 ft lb on 8mm of aluminium to aluminium thread (with the newer short thread blind nut that came with my new stem) in this application is not a good idea and although Jenna's story has many complications that sort of damage is what what I feared would eventuate.

...if we are talking about the actual stem, with a steering bearing top and bottom, mine is certainly steel, as are the nut and locknut.....

Please explain!!
__________________
XS650 becomes a VT BackRoadRunner
Loving the 80ST
I love projects that take twice as much effort as should be needed. Should be an Airhead motto. (disston)
__________________
bpeckm is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 09:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014