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Old 10-08-2012, 02:09 PM   #16
slartidbartfast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NW Cascade Rider View Post
It was firing on both cylinders, it just seemed to favor the Left jug a bit more. But the spark on both cylinders was very weak. And both TB's showed evidence of back fire / miss fire. Again, missing more in the Right jug than the left. I was not aware that the Ignition fired both cylinders at the same time. that being the case, Is there a good alternative coil or a coil with the same part number that would be a good replacement? If I could find a coil that had the same ohm and voltage output that would be sweet.
I think there are several companies selling more cost-effective replacements to the expensive BMW ignition coil from a dealer. I just had a look and Euromotoelectrics has it listed here, Beemerboneyard has used replacements listed here (out of stock at the time of posting) and Motorrad Elektrik has them listed here. No special reason why you should go to them as I'm sure you could find other sources also - these were just the first places I looked. These guys also all state that early oilhead coils were failure prone.
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:07 PM   #17
NW Cascade Rider OP
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Motorrad elektrik has no way to order the part. Every time I click order, It sends me to linksys website... And the other 2 websites are out of stock... so is there any other place I can order the part from?
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:55 PM   #18
vintagerider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NW Cascade Rider View Post
... And both TB's showed evidence of back fire / miss fire. ... Is there a good alternative coil or a coil with the same part number that would be a good replacement?
Common to see black soot in TB's. Characteristic of the engine from the lean burn.

Good explanation on the ignition sl-b-fast

The 1100 coil, unlike the 1150 dual spark, is pretty robust. Pull the coil and check the resistance cold and heated with heat gun. The published resistance is wrong in many manuals. Check the spark wire resistance. Solid core so they usually don't go bad but the insulation weakens and energy can jump to ground. Can see at night. BBY and EME. EME use to carry the Bosh coil packaged with a plug wires for cheap but now only seems to have the wires:
http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/Ign...w-wsr641oe.htm

edit: Slardi beat me to it! Wonder why the supply of the new style Bosch has dried up. Maybe the revised Bosh coil was nfg. What is BMW selling? I've been lucky with my old Bosh coils. I f Rick says the "early" ones were weak then he ought to know. Got to be a substitution out there but mounting will be an issue.

I would still resolve the loose tank liner and pull the intake manifolds when you get a chance.

vintagerider screwed with this post 10-08-2012 at 08:07 PM
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Old 10-09-2012, 02:34 AM   #19
slartidbartfast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NW Cascade Rider View Post
Motorrad elektrik has no way to order the part. Every time I click order, It sends me to linksys website... And the other 2 websites are out of stock... so is there any other place I can order the part from?
On their web site Motorrad state they do not have direct ordering from their website as a phone call allows troubleshooting to help ensure you get the right part. 866-668-6353
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Old 10-09-2012, 03:34 AM   #20
roger 04 rt
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I know you have tracked this down and believe that your spark coil may be at the root of the problem. If that doesn't work out, you may want to check another aspect of your fuel delivery--volume and/or pressure.

This past summer I had symptoms very similar to yours--bike would run at lower speeds but open the throttle and it would die (story). When I checked the injectors, there was fuel. In my case though, within a half hour of experimenting, my bike (1150) refused to run. It would start but if I touched the throttle it would die. To make a long story short, two of the hoses inside the fuel tank had cracks in them that were limiting the volume of fuel that the pump could deliver. The cracks were not obvious.

Afterwards I realized there were two simple tests. First, check the return volume from the fuel distributor going back to the tank. At idle it should be about 2 liters per minute (less that 1.5 liters and you'll have a top-end fuel delivery shortage). Second, check the fuel system pressure if you can get your hands on a gauge. It should be 43.5 psi plus or minus a few psi. Since the fuel pressure regulator rarely fails, the return-volume test may be faster and just as illuminating.

Good luck.
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:57 AM   #21
Murkidi
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cleaning tech

hi, thats a interesting tecnique for cleanning the inyectors could you explain it better or PM the procedure THANKS

manuel


Quote:
Originally Posted by slartidbartfast View Post
Did you check the filters/screens in the fuel injectors. You can apply a 9V battery across the terminals to open the injector and back-flush with carb cleaner to clean out any accumulated sludge.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:20 PM   #22
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Bluhduh Update!

So its been a while. And its mainly been because of the massive frustration I have had with working on the bike. I Got the coil and the plug wires and the new plugs and installed them on the bike. NO difference, or at least not much. I bought a brand new compression gauge and did a compression check cold on the engine. The right jug (which is the problem side) had higher compression that the left jug. About 175 psi right, the left jug wasn't far behind at about 170 psi.

That all being said. If the compression is up, that rules out any major valve adjustment issue and definitely not piston rings. Its getting fuel and spark. at least in some fashion, unfortunately my eyes aren't tuned to see when the injector opens and the spark fires exactly on time with the engine. SO to me that leaves only three possible problems. The Motronic control unit. The Throttle position sensor. Or the part I ordered which I think it is, The Hall Effect Sensor. And I base that conclusion on this reference. http://users.rcn.com/dehager/service...ll_sensors.pdf

The symptoms as described match what my bike is doing decently.

Hall Effects Sensor Failure Symptoms:
1 Difficulty starting ( hard to start if at all )
2 sudden engine shutdown ( does this all the time )
3 No Spark ( hard to say, there is at least some spark )
4 No fuel pressure ( non issue )
5 Bouncing tack ( non issue )
6 Engine restart after cool ( some times, goes back to symptom 1 )

I ordered just the sensor's, not the entire assembly because its close to $270. The sensors by them selves were only $130 with shipping, and are the correct and updated part number. So again I have to wait for the parts to come in and then install them. I am hoping for the best because I am getting some what tired of working on this bike and not having any results. At least its paid for... Any thoughts and input, as always, is appreciated!
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:31 PM   #23
roger 04 rt
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Have you checked the fuel flowing at idle, in the return line from the fuel distributor back to the tank?

I know it's a little hard to set up if you don't have QDs but you should expect 2 liters per minute. If you get about that amount then you know your pump, hoses, fuel pump screen, filter and fuel pressure regulator are working correctly.

It's basically a no-cost test.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:35 PM   #24
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Flow is fine. New fuel pump, new fuel filter, new fuel rail, cleaned both the fuel injectors and throttle bodies. Fuel flow is what I thought at first and is also where I started my troubleshooting.
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Old 11-15-2012, 05:39 AM   #25
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How did the bike run before you made the exhaust and air intake modifications ?
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Old 11-15-2012, 05:43 AM   #26
LBourque
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Throttle Cables

Assumed you have adjusted the throttle cables.
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Old 11-15-2012, 06:34 AM   #27
NW Cascade Rider OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gezerbike View Post
How did the bike run before you made the exhaust and air intake modifications ?
The bike ran fine before and after. If anything is backfired a bit when it was stock. I had bought the bike with the K&N air filter already on the bike, and that was years ago. I got about 2 or 3 months of riding in after I installed the new exhaust. I don't think the exhaust is my issue. And yes the throttle cables are in adjustment. I have gotten good at doing that with the amount of time I have been in and out of that area.
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:29 AM   #28
roger 04 rt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NW Cascade Rider View Post
Flow is fine. New fuel pump, new fuel filter, new fuel rail, cleaned both the fuel injectors and throttle bodies. Fuel flow is what I thought at first and is also where I started my troubleshooting.
And you're saying that you know the pressure is accurate and the return volume is in spec? I couldn't see the cracks (plural) that were in my in tank hoses. Even after I removed the hoses I needed to cut them open to find the leaks. If all that is good, that's what was asking. Seems like you have a tough problem. I hope the HES helps.
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:24 PM   #29
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Ultimately I am just going to take the filter out of the tank and mount it externally. Its to much of a pain to get at from the inside. And the tank breather lines need to be replaced anyway so I am just going to replace all the hoses while I'm in the tank.
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Old 12-03-2012, 06:59 AM   #30
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Update

So I replaced the HES. That was a fun little project, that yielded no success. It took me about 5 min of cranking the bike before it even fired, and when it did, there was all kinds of smoke coming out the back for about the first minute. Then that cleared up, but the bike didn't want to idle well at all. So I shut it down and ended up disconnecting the TPS, and started back up. Lowe and behold it idles fine. Not the best throttle response ever (to be expected) but it idled consistently and without assistance.

So, now that I have replaced everything aside from the TPS and the Motronic control unit, I think I have maybe a bad or poorly functioning fuel delivery system, and a bad TPS. So again this weekend when everything shows up, I'm going to mount an external fuel filter, change the fuel lines, and swap the TPS. Wish me luck....
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