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Old 02-09-2013, 06:58 AM   #3601
EtronX
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Wicked Bears

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmuncher View Post
When you guys camp and cook out in Siberia, do you have any concerns about bears? Any encounters?
Patience my friend, patience
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:14 AM   #3602
LandsVW
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Laugh

Siberia reminds me of Alaska (my home state) but it goes on and on forever... Alaska X 5. Or X10. or...

Awesome RR, Thanks! Took me a long time to catch up but I'm here!
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:42 AM   #3603
2WheelieADV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EtronX View Post
More close to 3.000 km
wow... I just looked at the map and realized that from Severobaikalsk to Magadan is more distance than crossing entire USA east to west...
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:48 AM   #3604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmuncher View Post
When you guys camp and cook out in Siberia, do you have any concerns about bears? Any encounters?
When we were in Siberia, we had a strict behaviour while camping, because of bears.
At home we washed our tent and thereafter never ate something in the tent. We cooked 100 m away from the tent and all eatables and shampoo etc were packed in one bag and we hung it on a tree 100 m (without rope) away from our tent. Additionally we made sometimes a fire.

Especially on the BAM the people often made me fear about bears and cried "опа́сно", but there are also some reasonable guys, that tell you that bears would be fine for the moment and that at they would be on "я́года" (berries). And one time when a man made me fear, I asked him, when he had seen a bear (and in 20 years at the BAM, he never saw one). I was a little bit disapointed, that on my whole stretch in Russia I never saw a bear until 3 days before Magadan.
So bears are a big issue when talking to people, but you have to be lucky to see one.
Once on Lena highway a truck driver wanted absolutely to take me some kilometers because of bears. He showed me a video done with his mobile, where one bear looked at him from very near, then approached his truck, erected himself and knocked on the truck door. That was for me quite impressive and so as the truck driver stopped another time, I agreed to go some kilometers with him, to pass the place of bear encounters. It seems that there is a stretch on Lena highway between Aldan and Neryungri where people see often bears (pereval Tit especially).
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:20 AM   #3605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2WheelieADV View Post
wow... I just looked at the map and realized that from Severobaikalsk to Magadan is more distance than crossing entire USA east to west...
lol. Its probably longer than Prudhoe Bay to Key West -David
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:09 AM   #3606
cvcaelen
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looking at those "bridges",
I wonder:
how come the Russians can put people on the moon
and at the same time have those bridges
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:19 AM   #3607
Seth S
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvcaelen View Post
looking at those "bridges",
I wonder:
how come the Russians can put people on the moon
and at the same time have those bridges
Maybe they have those bridges because they put Russians on the moon
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:44 AM   #3608
Canuman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth S View Post
Maybe they have those bridges because they put Russians on the moon
They haven't put Russians on the moon. That's scheduled for 2025.
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:09 PM   #3609
Tony P
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Originally Posted by Canuman View Post
They haven't put Russians on the moon.
Correct.
Their only claim is that Yuri Gagarin was the 'first man in space'.
What is certain is he was the 'first man to return from space - alive'

Big difference.

But even that is questionable for record purposes because he did not return to the surface in his craft but ejected during re-entry/descent.

Flights were not pre-announced and Gagarin's only became public after his successful return

At the time there were rumours of others into space. The rumours persist.
http://www.musketeer-porthos.supanet.com/page9.html
They were all brave or misguided people. Gagarin got his place in history through the authorities persistance and his own luck, which ran out following years of being a 'Hero of the CCCP'
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:13 PM   #3610
Canuman
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Did you hear the Siberians went to the moon? They left quickly. They couldn't find any pelmeni, and the banya wasn't hot enough.

The Finns went after that. They came back because there was no wood.
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:33 PM   #3611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvcaelen View Post
looking at those "bridges",
I wonder:
how come the Russians can put people on the moon
and at the same time have those bridges
There is no need for "rah-rah whose-is-longer" discussion - and yes, Canuman is right - in reality, the point is that these bridges serve no one to speak of.

It's a bit disingenuous to expect the Russians to build nice roadways for a few adventurers crossing Siberia for fun; actually, these adventurers enjoy dilapidated bridges much more, so one could say that the disrepair is a gift.

It's a matter of pure economics. There is a communication path (railway) and while the road may have served construction crews in the past, now it benefits very few. Why would you expect the government to throw out the money?

Heck, I live in the most densely-populated state of US (460/square km) and our roads seem to be worse than many of the Russian ones (Siberian population density is 3 / sq. km - yes, three inhabitants per square kilometer!).

The same decision making takes place in North America. When a railway is available over difficult terrain, there may be no justification for building a road. As an example, Schefferville, Quebec (located in terrain reminiscent of Siberian taiga) is also only accessible by rail.
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:10 PM   #3612
Canuman
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Not to hijack this thread, but I would never have understood Russia without spending time there. Rdwalkers analysis is very perceptive. Russia is a completely different environment than many westerners are accustomed to. I only sampled the eastern part of the country as far as Kazan. The distances and logistical problems in the west are large enough. The further east one travels, the larger they become. The Russians have seen the benefits of rail transport (something we are re-learning in the US) and decided to stick with a proven method. The BAM road was built solely to support the railway. It is not at all surprising that it is scantily maintained. It is not economically feasible to do so. While they will never admit to it, the Russians have a great deal in common with the "small government" group in the US.

It's likely we'd have a four-lane, paved BAM road inserted as a rider on some bill, and every taxpayer would support a portion of an expensive resource that was under-utilized. While the Russian method may seem brutal, it is rooted in practicality.

The stunning thing about Russia are people such as the bridge guard. Russians are reckless, generous, and social. I have never left a real Russian home unfed, or lacked for company or intelligent conversation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rdwalker View Post
There is no need for "rah-rah whose-is-longer" discussion - and yes, Canuman is right - in reality, the point is that these bridges serve no one to speak of.

It's a bit disingenuous to expect the Russians to build nice roadways for a few adventurers crossing Siberia for fun; actually, these adventurers enjoy dilapidated bridges much more, so one could say that the disrepair is a gift.

It's a matter of pure economics. There is a communication path (railway) and while the road may have served construction crews in the past, now it benefits very few. Why would you expect the government to throw out the money?

Heck, I live in the most densely-populated state of US (460/square km) and our roads seem to be worse than many of the Russian ones (Siberian population density is 3 / sq. km - yes, three inhabitants per square kilometer!).

The same decision making takes place in North America. When a railway is available over difficult terrain, there may be no justification for building a road. As an example, Schefferville, Quebec (located in terrain reminiscent of Siberian taiga) is also only accessible by rail.
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Canuman screwed with this post 02-09-2013 at 08:24 PM
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:52 PM   #3613
geolpilot
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Sort of like we spent a fortune inventing a ball point pen that would work in zero gravity. The Russians used a pencil. Now who is smarter?
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:45 PM   #3614
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Originally Posted by geolpilot View Post
Sort of like we spent a fortune inventing a ball point pen that would work in zero gravity. The Russians used a pencil. Now who is smarter?
That is exactly what came in my mind !!!


Fantastic report from a fantastic group of people.
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:12 PM   #3615
LandsVW
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Originally Posted by geolpilot View Post
Sort of like we spent a fortune inventing a ball point pen that would work in zero gravity. The Russians used a pencil. Now who is smarter?
Ha ha! I'd say both have their merits, weaknesses, and strengths. That's what makes both countries great. RR like these make bonds and create thought processes that go beyond borders. I like that.
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