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Old 02-22-2007, 04:35 PM   #1
WillieJ OP
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Failed input shaft splines R1150GS 12,800 miles

Here are photos of the input shaft splines and clutch splines from my '02 1150 GS with 12,800 miles on it. No hard shifting or slippage as a prior warning.

There was some evidence of dark fluid at the slave cylinder, but no evidence of heating or wear on the clutch rod tip. There was spline lube on the edges of the clutch center, but the input shaft splines were pretty dry.

Found a used transmission with good splines and fewer miles than my GS on it.
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WillieJ screwed with this post 02-22-2007 at 04:42 PM
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Old 02-22-2007, 04:36 PM   #2
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Clutch Splines

Heres the clutch splines.
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Old 02-22-2007, 04:38 PM   #3
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Clutch rod tip

And the clutch rod tip.
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Old 02-22-2007, 04:39 PM   #4
BOUNTY HUNTER
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Hey congratulations!!!! Three here, Anton has 5, Bruno has seen a few in Canada too!!!
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Old 02-22-2007, 04:54 PM   #5
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I think this is a known issue on some 1150GS's. A friend had the same problem and his bike was out of warranty. BMW Canada offered to pay for the parts and he paid for the labor, or vice versa I can't remember.. at any rate, he got to pay for whichever was less $$.
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Old 02-22-2007, 05:00 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadget Boy
I think this is a known issue on some 1150GS's. A friend had the same problem and his bike was out of warranty. BMW Canada offered to pay for the parts and he paid for the labor, or vice versa I can't remember.. at any rate, he got to pay for whichever was less $$.
It is a problem showing up on ALL 6 speed equipped BMW's. Two R1150RT's and an R1200C have failed here. 24,000, 40,000 & 28,000 miles respectively. Are my previous remarks about BMW's quality control making sense now??? It isn't pretty at all. The 5 speed bikes don't have this problem at all except from abuse or neglecting to lube the splines at 40,000.
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Old 02-22-2007, 05:05 PM   #7
Jim Bud
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Can You?

Give us your impression of what symptoms preceeded this failure??

Was there excessive drive train slack?? If so, how would you describe it??

How does the bike feel after it was fixed, compared to before it failed??

thanks....
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Old 02-22-2007, 05:07 PM   #8
JimVonBaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOUNTY HUNTER
It is a problem showing up on ALL 6 speed equipped BMW's. Two R1150RT's and an R1200C have failed here. 24,000, 40,000 & 28,000 miles respectively. Are my previous remarks about BMW's quality control making sense now??? It isn't pretty at all. The 5 speed bikes don't have this problem at all except from abuse or neglecting to lube the splines at 40,000.
Fortunately it doesn't seem to have infected the 12GS, yet!

I have heard of one at 12K miles on a 12GS, but I am not sure if it is a fluke, or a continuing issue. Certainly there are thousands of 12 series bikes with over 25K miles and no issues so far.

Jim

PS Sorry for the hijack, but your comment on "all 6-speed bikes" made me think for a second.
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Old 02-22-2007, 05:10 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bud
Give us your impression of what symptoms preceeded this failure??

Was there excessive drive train slack?? If so, how would you describe it??

How does the bike feel after it was fixed, compared to before it failed??

thanks....
No warning what so ever!
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Old 02-22-2007, 05:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
Fortunately it doesn't seem to have infected the 12GS, yet!

I have heard of one at 12K miles on a 12GS, but I am not sure if it is a fluke, or a continuing issue. Certainly there are thousands of 12 series bikes with over 25K miles and no issues so far.

Jim

PS Sorry for the hijack, but your comment on "all 6-speed bikes" made me think for a second.
No, I haven't heard of any R12GS' having this problem yet but I also hadn't seen nor heard of any 1150's failing until a couple of years ago and this trans has been around since 99. As you know, I don't work on Hex Heads so I can't say if the input shaft runs all the way through the clutch hub on the 1200 or not. Anton??? The 1150 hub is 22mm deep and the splines only contact 17mm. This is a poor design utilizing only 3/4 of the surface area of the splined clutch hub, right? So, my question would be is the shaft engaging the clutch hub completely in the R1200 series bikes and if not, how far away could a similar failure be? At least the 1200 and 1150 do not share the same clutch and input shaft!
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Old 02-22-2007, 05:28 PM   #11
Jim Bud
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We all know that bikes from this age/type ...

can go for many miles...well over 100k miles without this kind of failure...

so, the first thing we all tend to think of "was how often was it wheelied?"

but, I'm sure that there are some clutch's that had poor heat treatment of the center hub....sure seems to be the case on this one....

Unless you are a wheelie ace??
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Old 02-22-2007, 05:32 PM   #12
BOUNTY HUNTER
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bud
can go for many miles...well over 100k miles without this kind of failure...

so, the first thing we all tend to think of "was how often was it wheelied?"

but, I'm sure that there are some clutch's that had poor heat treatment of the center hub....sure seems to be the case on this one....

Unless you are a wheelie ace??
Of the tree failures I have seen in my shop I can assure you none were ever wheelied. They were ridden too easy if anything.
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Old 02-22-2007, 06:57 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bud
can go for many miles...well over 100k miles without this kind of failure...

so, the first thing we all tend to think of "was how often was it wheelied?"

but, I'm sure that there are some clutch's that had poor heat treatment of the center hub....sure seems to be the case on this one....

Unless you are a wheelie ace??
It was never wheelied. I bought it from a middle aged state trooper, and I'm of like age.

As far as which went first, I think it could a chicken and egg thing. If you look at the input shaft though, the wear is not even, suggesting something was going on for a while before the failure. The clutch splines are totalled.

I think the clutch splines are a somwhat softer alloy than the input splines, at least that would make sense since the clutch is allegedly the wear item.

It is interesting that airhead input shafts are somewhat larger that oilhead input shafts in light of the lower powered engines there. I know the airhead shafts are bigger 'cause I checked my Ed Korn airhead alignment tool against the oilhead disc.

BTW I did try to get some relief from BMW, but they said it was too far out of warranty (1 year, 10 months) to cover.

There were no symptoms prior to failure--- well maybe now that I think about it maybe three or four times where it seemed stuck in gear spread out over a period of months.
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Old 02-22-2007, 07:02 PM   #14
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Slave cylinder

Bounty Hunter, should the area of the slave cylinder be dry, or is there some oil, or fluid normally present when you remove it?
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Old 02-22-2007, 07:19 PM   #15
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Talking Has too !

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
Fortunately it doesn't seem to have infected the 12GS, yet!

I have heard of one at 12K miles on a 12GS, but I am not sure if it is a fluke, or a continuing issue. Certainly there are thousands of 12 series bikes with over 25K miles and no issues so far.

Jim

PS Sorry for the hijack, but your comment on "all 6-speed bikes" made me think for a second.
My '04 1200GS did the exact same thing at 18,000kms. BMW replaced the clutch and tranny under warranty. (3yr unlimited mileage) I experienced hard shifting and lots of neutrals before the re-build. Worked great with a new tranny and clutch. Did a 10,000km ride to Baja and back, then sold it.
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