ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > Regional forums > The Rockies – It's all downhill from here...
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

View Results: Amendment 64: The Regulate Marijuana Like Alcohol Act of 2012
Yes 102 73.91%
No 36 26.09%
Voters: 138. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-16-2012, 09:27 PM   #436
whitewater18
funhog
 
whitewater18's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Steamboat Springs, CO
Oddometer: 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by unaweep View Post
That kind of false equivalency drives these movements.

Cops are trained to perform roadside sobriety maneuvers. If they can't establish an individual's impairment with those tests, they need to move along. Sure, roadsides are voluntary. Nonetheless, they are available to request and plenty of other observations are available.

I think we had plenty of "false equivalencies" during this election cycle. Its obvious that the media has got the majority of folks believing that "false equivalencies" are the absolute truth.
__________________
KTM 990A
whitewater18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 07:34 AM   #437
HellSickle
Scone Rider
 
HellSickle's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: Fort Collins
Oddometer: 8,634
I hope other states pass similar measures and it puts an end to situations like this.
__________________
We don't stop riding because we get old, we get old because we stop riding.
"Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it"

HellSickle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 07:48 AM   #438
Myfuture_yourdebt
Banned
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: Front Range, CO
Oddometer: 372
^^ " Mexico presidential advisor Luis Videgaray said in a radio interview last week: 'Obviously, we can’t handle a product that is illegal in Mexico, trying to stop its transfer to the United States, when in the United States, at least in part of the United States, it now has a different status' "
Myfuture_yourdebt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 07:58 AM   #439
TheDudeAbides
Sarcasm free11/11/10
 
TheDudeAbides's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Loveland, Colo
Oddometer: 7,844
Quote:
Originally Posted by HellSickle View Post
I hope other states pass similar measures and it puts an end to situations like this.

"Legalisation of marijuana, as recently voted for by Colorado and Washington states, may wipe billions of dollars from the cartels’ annual profits."

And you think wiping out billions of dollars of their profits will somehow make the cartels become kinder and gentler? If anything, they will become even more violent trying to protect their dwindling profits.

And if pot is selling for say...$300/ounce now (illegally from the guy on the corner), and in a few months it becomes legal in Coloradao and you can get it for $300/ounce plus sales tax and the profit margin the retailer requires in order to pay his or her rent and light bill, etc...making it maybe $340/ounce, then why wouldn't people just continue to buy it under the table for $300/ounce from the corner guy?
We have legal car dealerships here in Colorado, but many of us continue to buy on Craigslist from private parties to save a few bucks. I fail to see why having legal pot stores in Colorado wil put a dent in the illegal private party pot business and the cartels. We have legal gun shops in Colorado, but many people still choose to buy under the table, or private party or black market.

And what about cocaine? Are the cartels going to stop murdering Mexican mayors over coacaine wars too if pot gets more stateside legalization?

There are a number of good arguments for legalizing marijuana, but thinking it will put an end to illegal trafficing isnt one of them, and thinking it will save the lives of Mexican Mayors is just pandering.




__________________
Best dualsport mirrors I've ever owned

2001 BMW F650 GS Dakar (Stolen!)
2004 DRZE
2004 BMW 1150 GSA
TheDudeAbides is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 08:03 AM   #440
ironbrewer
Hopefully Riding
 
ironbrewer's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: Was in Colorado now in The Northwet, Washington
Oddometer: 4,008
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDudeAbides View Post
"Legalisation of marijuana, as recently voted for by Colorado and Washington states, may wipe billions of dollars from the cartels’ annual profits."

And you think wiping out billions of dollars of their profits will somehow make the cartels become kinder and gentler? If anything, they will become even more violent trying to protect their dwindling profits.

And if pot is selling for say...$300/ounce now (illegally from the guy on the corner), and in a few months it becomes legal in Coloradao and you can get it for $300/ounce plus sales tax and the profit margin the retailer requires in order to pay his or her rent and light bill, etc...making it maybe $340/ounce, then why wouldn't people just continue to buy it under the table for $300/ounce from the corner guy?
We have legal car dealerships here in Colorado, but many of us continue to buy on Craigslist from private parties to save a few bucks. I fail to see why having legal pot stores in Colorado wil put a dent in the illegal private party pot business and the cartels. We have legal gun shops in Colorado, but many people still choose to buy under the table, or private party or black market.

And what about cocaine? Are the cartels going to stop murdering Mexican mayors over coacaine wars too if pot gets more stateside legalization?




There are a number of good arguments for legalizing marijuana, but thinking it will put an end to illegal trafficing isnt one of them, and thinking it will save the lives of Mexican Mayors is just pandering.




Pot is easy to grow. If its legal, do you really think it will go up in price?? Plus under the law, it will be legal to cultivate your own.

Just took a quick look at medical mj prices online. I googled it and looked at the first 5 or so places. The prices ranged from $160 to $210 plus tax. Not sure about the street price, but that seems pretty cheap. I'm thinking medical marijuana has a premium price due to more regulations than just plain old pot store would have. I really don't know though.
__________________
"All the problems we face in the United States today can be traced to an unenlightened immigration policy on the part of the American Indian."


Pat Paulsen

ironbrewer screwed with this post 11-27-2012 at 08:10 AM
ironbrewer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 08:07 AM   #441
eddie bolted
BOING!!!
 
eddie bolted's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: st. clair pa.
Oddometer: 3,108
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDudeAbides View Post
I'm not following you. Smoking, booze and motorcycles aren't illegal at the federal level. Marijuana is.
It's a Schedule I controlled substance like heroin and worse than morphine which is sched II
Weed is worse than morphine,YEA RIGHT!!!!!That right there tells me how F--KED UP the drug laws are.
__________________
If it stops raining now, i'll be pissed!(BEANTOP)
eddie bolted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 08:11 AM   #442
TheDudeAbides
Sarcasm free11/11/10
 
TheDudeAbides's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Loveland, Colo
Oddometer: 7,844
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironbrewer View Post
Pot is easy to grow. If its legal, do you really think it will go up in price?? Plus under the law, it will be legal to cultivate your own.

Yes, I do think it will go up in price. Medical marijuana prices were (are) very steep. Beer is legal and many people hom brew, but retail beer isnt getting any cheaper. The brewer has to make money, and the distributer and the retailer. The moment someone opens up a pot shop in a strip mall, he or she will immediatley have A) rent to pay B) a state licensing fee to pay and C) other operating costs (lights, employees, heat, advertising, etc)to pay. And they will expect to make a profit. Quality will most likely go up, and the purchasing experioence for the consumer will increase, but price will definitly go up now that we have the governemt involved (fess + taxes).

And you can only cultivate what?,Six mature plants, but you can only be in posession of on ounce or less?

There will be more buyers than growers (suppliers), so it will remain a sellers market and the supplier will have the leverage to set prices. So why not just buy it tax free from the guy on the corner?
__________________
Best dualsport mirrors I've ever owned

2001 BMW F650 GS Dakar (Stolen!)
2004 DRZE
2004 BMW 1150 GSA
TheDudeAbides is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 08:12 AM   #443
wzd1a
Beastly Adventurer
 
wzd1a's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Castle Rock
Oddometer: 1,306
As long as Eric Holder and the Obama administration continue to feed the cartels firearms (we have no idea if gov't trafficking of firearms to cartels has stopped as executive privi was invoked), the killings of mexican citizens will continue to be blamed on america, and rightfully so.

My condolences to this poor woman, her husband (also executed) and her family.

I disagree with dude's above assessment - as pot can be easily grown for minimal costs at home - and I have it on heresay information that in CA - pot is becoming very cheap (i.e., buy one get one free) at the dispensaries, as they try very hard to compete for repeat customers. I don't think the cartels will become any less violent, but the pot will likely be grown locally so they will be cut out of that market - worked with booze and the mob, no reason to think the same won't happen with pot.

wzd1a screwed with this post 11-27-2012 at 08:18 AM
wzd1a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 08:14 AM   #444
HellSickle
Scone Rider
 
HellSickle's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: Fort Collins
Oddometer: 8,634
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDudeAbides View Post
"Legalisation of marijuana, as recently voted for by Colorado and Washington states, may wipe billions of dollars from the cartels’ annual profits."

And you think wiping out billions of dollars of their profits will somehow make the cartels become kinder and gentler? If anything, they will become even more violent trying to protect their dwindling profits.

And if pot is selling for say...$300/ounce now (illegally from the guy on the corner), and in a few months it becomes legal in Coloradao and you can get it for $300/ounce plus sales tax and the profit margin the retailer requires in order to pay his or her rent and light bill, etc...making it maybe $340/ounce, then why wouldn't people just continue to buy it under the table for $300/ounce from the corner guy?
We have legal car dealerships here in Colorado, but many of us continue to buy on Craigslist from private parties to save a few bucks. I fail to see why having legal pot stores in Colorado wil put a dent in the illegal private party pot business and the cartels. We have legal gun shops in Colorado, but many people still choose to buy under the table, or private party or black market.

And what about cocaine? Are the cartels going to stop murdering Mexican mayors over coacaine wars too if pot gets more stateside legalization?

There are a number of good arguments for legalizing marijuana, but thinking it will put an end to illegal trafficing isnt one of them, and thinking it will save the lives of Mexican Mayors is just pandering.

Spoken like a true drug dealer.

You analogy to car sales is pathetic. A better analogy would be to compare buying a car from a dealer, to buying discount stolen cars from a chop shop. Do you really think people will choose to buy from criminals just to save a few $$?

Alcohol is far more damaging, but was left out of the CSA for political reasons. At the minimum, it should be listed as schedule 2, especially considering that the US government obtained a patent on the medical benefits 10 years ago. Under the reasoning of the CSA, alcohol should be listed as schedule 2, the same as morphine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDudeAbides View Post
Yes, I do think it will go up in price. Medical marijuana prices were (are) very steep. Beer is legal and many people hom brew, but retail beer isnt getting any cheaper. The brewer has to make money, and the distributer and the retailer. The moment someone opens up a pot shop in a strip mall, he or she will immediatley have A) rent to pay B) a state licensing fee to pay and C) other operating costs (lights, employees, heat, advertising, etc)to pay. And they will expect to make a profit. Quality will most likely go up, and the purchasing experioence for the consumer will increase, but price will definitly go up now that we have the governemt involved (fess + taxes).

And you can only cultivate what?,Six mature plants, but you can only be in posession of on ounce or less?

There will be more buyers than growers (suppliers), so it will remain a sellers market and the supplier will have the leverage to set prices. So why not just buy it tax free from the guy on the corner?
Wrong on all counts. Competition will reduce prices.

Ben, even at $400/ounce, marijuana is still cheaper (about half the price) than an equivalent buzz with micro brews, with much lower damage to the environment. In fact, I think growers should be able to sell carbon credits to further the cause.
__________________
We don't stop riding because we get old, we get old because we stop riding.
"Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it"


HellSickle screwed with this post 11-27-2012 at 08:21 AM
HellSickle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 08:16 AM   #445
ironbrewer
Hopefully Riding
 
ironbrewer's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: Was in Colorado now in The Northwet, Washington
Oddometer: 4,008
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDudeAbides View Post
Yes, I do think it will go up in price. Medical marijuana prices were (are) very steep. Beer is legal and many people hom brew, but retail beer isnt getting any cheaper. The brewer has to make money, and the distributer and the retailer. The moment someone opens up a pot shop in a strip mall, he or she will immediatley have A) rent to pay B) a state licensing fee to pay and C) other operating costs (lights, employees, heat, advertising, etc)to pay. And they will expect to make a profit. Quality will most likely go up, and the purchasing experioence for the consumer will increase, but price will definitly go up now that we have the governemt involved (fess + taxes).

And you can only cultivate what?,Six mature plants, but you can only be in posession of on ounce or less?

There will be more buyers than growers (suppliers), so it will remain a sellers market and the supplier will have the leverage to set prices. So why not just buy it tax free from the guy on the corner?
I was a commercial brewer for 12 years. I figured I brewed about 1.5 million pints in that time. (lots of hangovers and drunk people because of me.) Homebrewing isn't really cheaper than buying quality beer, and costs way more when you figure in your time. People homebrew because they enjoy the process. That would be more a kin to growing your own.

Also see my above edit on prices of Med Marijuana.
__________________
"All the problems we face in the United States today can be traced to an unenlightened immigration policy on the part of the American Indian."


Pat Paulsen
ironbrewer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 08:18 AM   #446
TheDudeAbides
Sarcasm free11/11/10
 
TheDudeAbides's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Loveland, Colo
Oddometer: 7,844
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie bolted View Post
Weed is worse than morphine,YEA RIGHT!!!!!That right there tells me how F--KED UP the drug laws are.

I didn't say that weed is worse than morphine, I said it (weed) is currently a schedule I which makes it legally more prohibitive than a Schedule II. I'm not saying that I agree with the definitions in the Controlled Substances Act, I'm just pointing out that by current legal definition a Sched I drug has more legal ramifications than a Sched II drug such as morphine (Opiates).

And I agree, the drug laws are a complete mess. And we have given two branches of government, the FDA and the DEA waaaay too much power and control. And don't even get me started on the ATF and the IRS.
__________________
Best dualsport mirrors I've ever owned

2001 BMW F650 GS Dakar (Stolen!)
2004 DRZE
2004 BMW 1150 GSA
TheDudeAbides is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 08:20 AM   #447
Myfuture_yourdebt
Banned
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: Front Range, CO
Oddometer: 372
I don't think the idea is that the cartels get nicer...they're a drug cartel. The idea is that they won't have as much money to operate with (to buy guns, drug materials, pay 'employees', bride officials, etc.)...and therefore to be violent with. A well-funded militant force can afford to be more violent than a not-as-well-funded militant force, that is obvious.


If the regulatory system even gets put into place, commercial sales won't begin until 2013. Regardless, TheDude's pricing is misinformed. Right now with MMJ, top-notch buds are cheaper at dispensaries than they use to be on the black market. The black market has had to adjust to this huge competitive force...and from what I've seen, the black market has had to cut prices to the extreme and still doesn't even attempt to compete on quality because it has no chance against legitimate businesses. Basically, the average toker has two options: get top-of-the-world quality buds from a dispensary (somehow), or get twice as much quantity but not even half the quality from the black market for the same price ["ditch weed", bulk product that is more or less useless for most tokers, has all but disappeared]. The vast majority of the tokers I know go with the first choice, even people with very little cash to spend. Yes, I am admitting the MMJ serves many tokers who do not have their MMJ license, but it isn't the dispensaries doing it, it's people with licenses doing it for friends. What a crime, especially now that it's legal! I don't think TheDude's thought process about the black market competing with legal pot makes any sense. It's like saying a truly bad business (no matter how much money is tossed at it) can compete and overcome a good business. It's like saying the drug cartel could compete with the pharmacuetical industry if it chose to...and I'm sure he doesn't believe that's possible.
Myfuture_yourdebt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 08:27 AM   #448
TheDudeAbides
Sarcasm free11/11/10
 
TheDudeAbides's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Loveland, Colo
Oddometer: 7,844
Quote:
Originally Posted by HellSickle View Post
You analogy to car sales is pathetic. A better analogy would be to compare buying a car from a dealer, to buying discount stolen cars from a chop shop. Do you really think people will choose to buy from criminals just to save a few $$?

.
Spoken like a true criminal.

People have been buying weed from "criminals" for decades now. ADVers have been buying weed from other ADVers for at least a decade now. And I think there's pics to prove it.

You really think that just because a fancy pot store with nice chairs and some magazines to read opens up in the local strip mall they will spend the extra bucks to go shop there? I think most folks do not view their current pot "guy" as a "criminal". They view him as a friend. I think many of them will continue to "shop locally" and they will keep buying from that friend. And that friend, sans overhead, will always offer a better deal than the new store on the block.
__________________
Best dualsport mirrors I've ever owned

2001 BMW F650 GS Dakar (Stolen!)
2004 DRZE
2004 BMW 1150 GSA
TheDudeAbides is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 08:30 AM   #449
TheDudeAbides
Sarcasm free11/11/10
 
TheDudeAbides's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Loveland, Colo
Oddometer: 7,844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myfuture_yourdebt View Post
It's like saying the drug cartel could compete with the pharmacuetical industry if it chose to...and I'm sure he doesn't believe that's possible.
Drug cartels hijack pharmaceutical shipments all the time and then sell the drug below cost all the time.
They can't competer with the pharma industry in terms of research and development, but they sure as hell compete when it comes to distribution.
__________________
Best dualsport mirrors I've ever owned

2001 BMW F650 GS Dakar (Stolen!)
2004 DRZE
2004 BMW 1150 GSA
TheDudeAbides is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 08:40 AM   #450
TheDudeAbides
Sarcasm free11/11/10
 
TheDudeAbides's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Loveland, Colo
Oddometer: 7,844
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironbrewer View Post
I was a commercial brewer for 12 years. I figured I brewed about 1.5 million pints in that time. (lots of hangovers and drunk people because of me.) Homebrewing isn't really cheaper than buying quality beer, and costs way more when you figure in your time. People homebrew because they enjoy the process. That would be more a kin to growing your own.

Also see my above edit on prices of Med Marijuana.
PM coming your way
__________________
Best dualsport mirrors I've ever owned

2001 BMW F650 GS Dakar (Stolen!)
2004 DRZE
2004 BMW 1150 GSA
TheDudeAbides is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 12:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014