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View Results: Amendment 64: The Regulate Marijuana Like Alcohol Act of 2012
Yes 102 73.91%
No 36 26.09%
Voters: 138. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-29-2012, 12:39 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Myfuture_yourdebt View Post
So what about those studies that show that marijuana has little therapeutic effect? Those "sources" did little to prove either way but they more so support my argument than your own...

Then you should totally vote in favor of ammendement 64!


Help it win, watch pain as a whole virtually disappear form society as we know it and watch those stupid pharma companies all go bankrupt because man they would just hate it if marijuana became legal or something. It's a win-win for you. Everything you could ever want or imagine in a society all wrapped up in one tidy little ammendment! And then, instead of buying some weed from that one guy (you know him), you can buy the same weed AND pay tax on it!!

You could smoke 2 joints before you vote and you could smoke 2 more!!

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Old 10-29-2012, 12:42 PM   #107
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^ Obviously someone can't explain why they left a turd in the urinal...

So they decided to devolve into a comedian role.

Haven't seen that one before...
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Old 10-29-2012, 01:02 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Myfuture_yourdebt View Post
You somehow managed not to answer a single one of my very relevant questions (they do NOT stem from any misunderstanding of your posts):

.

Even if MMJ patients have zero effect on pharma sales, why would you expect that would scale in the same manner if a much larger portion of the population was using marijuana and realizing what it can do for them?.

Dude, for like the 47th time: You think that MMJ sales will decrease pharma Rxs. I think they won't. So we disagree. SO! Here's an idea. Instead of having a hypothetical argument, let's look at actual facts and see what happens when MMJ is legalized. Hmm the facts show that prescription sales go UP, not down.

It's called sampling. When GE makes 1,230,000 light bulbs a day, they don't actually test all 1,230,000 bulbs. They cull a sample. Given the sample size is a large enough one, it can become a predictor of the results you'd get had you tested every single one. Follow?

Sooo....instead of waiting until all 50 states have legal MMJ, lets take a look at a sample of states. But let's not just look at 1 or 2. Lets not take 5% or even 10% of the states (which would be a HUGE sample btw), lets look at all 17 states that have legal MMJ. That's a whopping 17% of the states
http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/v...ourceID=000881

And lets not look at a week's worth of data. Lets go all the way back a month or two. No, wait. Let's go back a year. No, a decade! Aww hell, let's go all the way back to 1996. Why not. So let's look at 17% of the states (which by the way most likely make up more than 17% of the population) for 16 years.

You know what you find? Sales of Avinza, OxyContin, OxyCodone, Opana, Actiq, Percodin, Daludid, etc have increased in each and every state, each and every year. Despite a recession. Despite unbeleivable FDA controls. Despite escalating health care costs. Despite the presence of this non-addicitve all powerful super-drug called marijuana. People still buy increasing amounts of prescription pain killers. Same is true of MS drugs, cancer drugs, you name it.

THERE IS NO EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE THAT THE LEGALIZATION OF MARIJUANA WILL ADVERSLY EFFECT THE SALE OR CONSUMPTION OF "BIG PHARMA" PRESCRIPTION DRUGS. PERIOD.

If there is evidence, then provide it or shut the heck up. Let's put the burdon of proof on YOU. I've answered your question 20 different ways. Legalized MMJ has had no impact on pharma sales in the past 16 years. In fact, it has most likely lead to an increase in sales. (according to one of those studies I posted up a few minutes ago: "cannibus leads to increased opioid seeking behavior")

So put up or shut up.
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Old 10-29-2012, 01:04 PM   #109
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holy fuck, who. gives. a. shit.

you two can't see the forest through the trees.
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Old 10-29-2012, 01:06 PM   #110
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holy fuck, who. gives. a. shit.

you two can't see the forest through the trees.
Glaucoma.
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Old 10-29-2012, 01:12 PM   #111
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Glaucoma.
MMJ is already legal in CO. This is just about sparking some doobies, no big pharma.
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VxZeroKnots screwed with this post 10-29-2012 at 01:14 PM Reason: dude beat me to the edit.
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Old 10-29-2012, 01:13 PM   #112
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MMJ is already legal in CO. This is just about sparking some doobies, no big pharma.

Then sign me up. Man.
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Old 10-29-2012, 01:49 PM   #113
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I'm familiar with him, and I just watched the entire video. Where does he say that addiction is good for business? He never says that or anything close to that. So why post this video? I'm sure there's more incriminating videos out there than this one. Also, at the end of the video, he is demonstrably wrong about how often the DSM guidelines are updated. Just an aside.

Also, I can't speak for Eli Lilly or for Dr. Virapen, I can only speak to my 13 years of experience and can testify I have never once been encouraged by any manager any VP, any marketing person or any CEO to promote any drug off-label, to encourage it's use in anyone but those that fall within indication. And contrary to what Dr. Virapen says, I have always been encouraged to talk about side effects. A great deal of my time interacting with physicians is talking about side effects, drug-drug interactions and indicatied vs. contraindicated useages. We talk about side effects all the time. Constantly. The absolulte last thing we would want is for a patient to have an adverse event on one of our drugs.

I treat every call I have with a Dr as if it's being tape recorded and and will be played back before the DEA, a prosecutor, a jury, etc. In 13 years with 4 different companies, I have yet to meet one single rep, manager or exec who would be willing to go to jail for their company. The stakes are too high. I can say with complete confidence that I have yet to encounter anyone in this industry who is willing to cut any legl or ethical corner. We just don't get paid enough to justify the legal ramifications of doing so.

That's not to say that there is no corruption in the industry. I'm sure there is. There is in every industry. But I can say that in 13 years, the people I've worked with have never cut a corner, engaged in any type of behavior that could ever endanger a patient, encouraged off-label usage, avoided talking about side effects, or encouraged use of a drug where it is not absolutley medically justified. In fact we often turn down what could be extra business if the patient isnt an ideal candidate.

I have a drug that is approved in children down to age 12. Just last week I was appraoched by a doc running a children's clinic who asked for samples because she has "quite a few youngsters who could benefit from it". I did not give her any samples at all, I clarifed with her that our indication is only down to 12 years. She persisted that she had pateints even younger than that who could benefit. I left that office and won't return. Since we are the only supplier of this particular med, I can guarantee she'll never get any of it from me. Those aren't the right patients, and we won't provide her with a means of using it where it's not indicated. It's been that way my whole career. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I've never once been encouraged or incentivized to get more business the "wrong" way.
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Old 10-29-2012, 02:57 PM   #114
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I'm generally not in favor of off-label use but I seriously doubt a drug rep has any true stopping power when an MD makes the decision to write a script for off-label treatment.
Oh, agreed. I as a rep have absolultey no control over that.

I can make sure a doc has no samples to provide a patient, but Ihave no way of preventing them from writing a script. And some off-label uses are probably ok (Tagamet for heartburn also is known to eliminate warts of all things), but it is verbotten to talk about.
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Old 10-29-2012, 02:59 PM   #115
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FBI says that legalizing pot under an ounce will lower the number of arrests.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/thespot/...ousands/85035/
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Old 10-29-2012, 03:05 PM   #116
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FBI says that legalizing pot under an ounce will lower the number of arrests.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/thespot/...ousands/85035/

Duh.

Legalizing anything will result in fewer arrests.
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Old 10-29-2012, 04:00 PM   #117
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Duh.

Legalizing anything will result in fewer arrests.
This one is two for one. Decreases demand on the cops and increases tax revenues.
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Old 10-29-2012, 04:25 PM   #118
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It's that kind of thinking that will further bankrupt this country. Not a single "conservative" can tell me how they would get out of this debt living. Instead they go on about "the country was found on this or that..blah, blah". .
I never said anything about conservative vs liberal blah blah blah.....You are making ASSumptions. Look at Europe, where this country's roots started, is that where you want to go? Please remember you can move there anytime....


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I think it's pretty simple.
No Actually, it is very complicated.

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The people have demanded a 4 trillion dollar government on a 2 trillion budget. It's time for taxes to double-plain and simple.
THE PEOPLE? I haven't demanded anything other than the basics from government. Fiscal responsibility. Period. ELIMINATE government programs!!

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It's time for taxes to double-plain and simple.
Why do you need Government to raise your taxes Chris? If you want your taxes to double, then by all means, go ahead and start sending in double payments TODAY. When you buy groceries and clothes for your kid, look at the tax and send a matching check to the state. Nobody will stop you. Everytime you fill your tanks with gas I suggest you go ahead and double the Federal Tax portion and send that in too.

Simple indeed. There is NO WAY more government telling us what to do is going to make our lives better. Hmm, funny how many of the people posting on this thread rant and rave that they don;t want the government telling them what they can and can't do yet they would like to see the Government control, regulate and tax MJ.
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Old 10-29-2012, 04:48 PM   #119
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I have a friend who lives across the street from a facility in G. Junction, he regularly watches people go in, buy, and come out and smoke it in the parking lot and then attempt to drive off. .
MMJ facilities were closed by vote in late 2010. Just sayin . . . .
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:01 PM   #120
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Dude, for like the 47th time: You think that MMJ sales will decrease pharma Rxs. I think they won't. So we disagree. SO! Here's an idea. Instead of having a hypothetical argument, let's look at actual facts and see what happens when MMJ is legalized. Hmm the facts show that prescription sales go UP, not down.

It's called sampling. When GE makes 1,230,000 light bulbs a day, they don't actually test all 1,230,000 bulbs. They cull a sample. Given the sample size is a large enough one, it can become a predictor of the results you'd get had you tested every single one. Follow?

Sooo....instead of waiting until all 50 states have legal MMJ, lets take a look at a sample of states. But let's not just look at 1 or 2. Lets not take 5% or even 10% of the states (which would be a HUGE sample btw), lets look at all 17 states that have legal MMJ. That's a whopping 17% of the states
http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/v...ourceID=000881

And lets not look at a week's worth of data. Lets go all the way back a month or two. No, wait. Let's go back a year. No, a decade! Aww hell, let's go all the way back to 1996. Why not. So let's look at 17% of the states (which by the way most likely make up more than 17% of the population) for 16 years.

You know what you find? Sales of Avinza, OxyContin, OxyCodone, Opana, Actiq, Percodin, Daludid, etc have increased in each and every state, each and every year. Despite a recession. Despite unbeleivable FDA controls. Despite escalating health care costs. Despite the presence of this non-addicitve all powerful super-drug called marijuana. People still buy increasing amounts of prescription pain killers. Same is true of MS drugs, cancer drugs, you name it.

THERE IS NO EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE THAT THE LEGALIZATION OF MARIJUANA WILL ADVERSLY EFFECT THE SALE OR CONSUMPTION OF "BIG PHARMA" PRESCRIPTION DRUGS. PERIOD.

If there is evidence, then provide it or shut the heck up. Let's put the burdon of proof on YOU. I've answered your question 20 different ways. Legalized MMJ has had no impact on pharma sales in the past 16 years. In fact, it has most likely lead to an increase in sales. (according to one of those studies I posted up a few minutes ago: "cannibus leads to increased opioid seeking behavior")

So put up or shut up.
I've been saying the entire time that legalization will decrease big pharma revenues...how have you missed that?
You're the one that brought up medical marijuana as it stands today and it's effect on big pharma to date....my belief is that legalization will cut into big pharma because of marijuana's therapeutic effects.

Your entire post above was pointless because you cite medical marijuana data and then state "there is no empirical evidence that full scale legalization will hurt big pharma"...Two completely different things, in other words: 100% NON-SEQUITAR....unless you have some evidence that proves or even suggests a link between the effects of MMJ on big pharma and the effects of legalization on big pharma!? All that condescending talk about data sampling, what a waste!!! I don't think I'm the one who needs to "put up or shut up" until you Wikipedia "Non-sequitar"

Without thinking about the obvious translation problems, someone could assume that the potential for marijuana in general to cut into big pharma is over in X state shortly after that states legalizes MMJ...simply because they also assume that everyone who might replace a pharm-drug with marijuana would soon do so with a MMJ license. In all reality, MMJ is still not accepted or known first hand by the majority of Colorado society...this means most people have not seriously considered if and if so how marijuana can help them. If legalized, more people will become familiar with marijuana and see it as the preferred alternative to many things (as is already done without legalization or MMJ). That's exactly how big pharma stands to lose SO MUCH with legalization. Don't even get me started on how much the tobacco and alcohol industries stand to lose from legalization of marijuana. You fail to see this dynamic at all and instead assume your MMJ data is somehow predicting the future of legalization despite no proven link and no real reason to assume the link (why would one assume legalization data would reflect MMJ data, I have no idea).

Do I have proof of what I believe would be a negative trend for big pharma if marijuana was legalized? No, I freely admit I do not; I do not have any proof that legalization will cause anything because very little research has ever addressed legalization here in the States (a very unique culture of consumption) and we simply cannot know exactly what would happen because it's never happened before in this day and age. The Netherlands can give us a ballpark idea, but the Netherlands is also an entirely different culture that actually has some dignity when it comes to consumption concerning human health. Legalization is simply a huge unknown here in the USA.

And when did 17 states become 17% of states? Where are those other 50 states?
...and you kidded at me that I'm the one getting high
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