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Old 11-02-2012, 02:00 PM   #31
Big Bamboo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spo123 View Post
Perhaps the plug wire CONNECTOR(s) at the plug?
Yes, or it's loose at the coil end...
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:35 AM   #32
batoutoflahonda
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Whoa. back the bus up people. So a bike in an unknown state of tune with a bunch of new stuff on it?

1) Check the valves
2) Set the timing
4) Take it out. Get it good and warmed up, then sync the carbs and set the idle. If Idle is off after adjustment, re-time it.
5) Report back

You need a base line. As mentioned earlier.
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Old 11-03-2012, 06:00 AM   #33
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Cool2 It just takes TIME and Patience!

If the valves are adjusted correctly AND the timing is correct, it may NOT be possible for a proper warm up ride......IF spark to the plugs is ERRATIC.
FYI....as I previously stated.......double check all electrical connections (in IGNITION SYSTEM)......use an ohm meter to test the PLUG CAPS....
The ORIGINAL METAL CAPS are known to FAIL and pass no ohms....ie: infinite resistance.
Replacement NGK BRAND caps are INEXPENSIVE.......There IS a difference of ohms for POINTS and for ELECTRONIC ignitions.....YOU may look that up....it is easy to find.
Best wishes always!

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spo123 screwed with this post 11-03-2012 at 01:46 PM
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Old 11-03-2012, 06:25 AM   #34
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I agree with spo123. It has to be a bad connection. My money is on the electronic ignition. Which one did you install? I'm going to go out on a limb and guess Dyna III (because it's the one I have experience with!). Seriously, I've experienced VERY similar behavior with my /6. Both times, it was a loose sensor plate. It started, ran, idled, everything was fine, until it warmed up. Then, the connection started to fail and it would run only on one cylinder. The install instructions warned about over tightening it so I was too gentle with it and the motor's vibrations made it loosen over time. Do yourself and before you start throwing more money at it, just look under the front cover and make sure the little round sensor plate is making good contact with the case. That is how the system is grounded and a clean, snug connection there is imperative. No need to tighten the shit out of it, just make sure it's good and snug. If that doesn't do it, then go to the spark plug wires. If they are the original ones, they should be replaced anyway and, as previously stated, they are not expensive (especially if you make them yourself). Good luck!
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Old 11-03-2012, 11:30 AM   #35
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So i'm in the process of doing the valve clearance.

The valve clearance was sooo tight on the left side. Took like 3-4 full turns on the bolt to get the feelers through. Using .15mm on the intake .20mm on the exhaust.

But now the rocker arm as back and forth play, the 4 nuts are tight to 25lbs.

I was using this as a guide
http://w6rec.com/duane/bmw/valve/index.htm

he said before doing valve clearance to make sure the rocker arm didnt budge (correct if wrong) and it didnt so i proceeded to valve clearance. Now there is play as stated now that the clearance is right.

I buttoned everything back up and fired the bike up for a minute. I can hear valve noise now and he said i would if it was not tight. Positive side was after 2 pulls of the throttle the caughing seems to be gone. But I shut it right down when i heard the ticking in the valves.

Could someone explain how to get rid of this? his instructions say tighten the nuts but they are tight... I may have missed something though...

have this ignition installed
http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/EnD...-p/edl-ign.htm

Yachtie screwed with this post 11-03-2012 at 12:11 PM
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:26 PM   #36
Big Bamboo
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It sounds to me like you may have adjusted the wrong valves. There is no way it should have taken that many turns to achieve the right clearance. Which method are you using to turn the engine to top dead center? Better yet, you can call me at Eight 0 Eight 8 Eight 7 Two Zero 2 Seven and I will run you through the procedure. Typing it all out takes too long...
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:08 PM   #37
disston
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Try to be careful with language, some of the things you say aren't very clear, but I understand if you are new to this the language is new also.

You say the rockers have back and forth motion? I think you mean vertical because they are not tight enough between the blocks? You are going to need a torque wrench set for 25 foot/pounds. When you have both rockers loose and one side is ready for adjusting the valve lash you can loosen the two nuts holding the intake or the exhaust rocker and squeeze the blocks together. Hand pressure should work on a /6 but some find the need a little more pressure from a set up of sockets (to clear the rocker shaft) squeezed by a large C-clamp or large pair of pliers. Do one at a time either intake r exhaust then do the other. This way you will not have to tighten the nuts down in a stepped pattern like was done when the gasket was new because you have only two nuts loose at a time.

There are a couple of ways to determine which side is ready for adjustment. If you have both valve covers off and set the flywheel to top dead center then one cylinder will have both rockers loose. This side, which ever it is, is at TDC. The other side is also at TDC but on the exhaust stroke. After setting one side spin the crank, with what ever method you use, 360* and it will be at TDC again only on the other cylinder. To say another way, when the bike is at TDC one side will be ready to adjust, this side should have loose rockers, both. The other side is 360* around.

I guess it may be possible to have a valve that tight. But I agree with Mr Bamboo it doesn't seem likely. That's why we think you adjusted the valves on the wrong side.

Moving right along. The other method of determining which side to set may be instructive. Take the valve cover off one side, I usually start on the left side. I use the Hex Key in the alternator bolt to rotate the engine and watch the window for the TDC mark and at the same time watch the valves, particularly the intake valve. Right after the intake closes is when the TDC for that side will appear. So I watch for the intake closing and as soon as it does I watch, it'll be pretty soon but not right away, the TDC mark. TDC. Then to find TDC on the right side I only have to rotate the crank 360*.

There should be very little to no vertical movement of the rockers. There will almost always be some valve tapping noise. And the clutch linkage in the trans also rattles in neutral. Just be thankful most of these motors don't have the Turkey Gobble Valve any more, most have been changed out by now. But if you get this thing running and you hear a Turkey Gobble noise when sitting at a stop light we have a fix for that too.
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:42 PM   #38
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When you are trying to adjust the valves you will have to rotate the engine either by a Hex Key in the alternator bolt with the engine in neutral, or the engine in gear, higher gear works better, and rotating the rear wheel. Which ever method is used remove both spark plugs so you aren't rotating against engine compression.

I know you are keeping your eyes out for some loose wire, dirty connector, solution to this problem But in the mean time we would like you to put the bike in a state of basic good tune. It's been said before, (1) set the valves, (2) Adjust the timing, (3) adjust carbs on a warmed up engine.

So far we have said a lot about adjusting the valves. This is a critical adjustment for you to get right and to get it right it must be done right. So I hope you get this part. For timing adjustment you will need a timing light and know how to use it. Have you got the timing light? And the know how?

And for the 3rd thing I'm going to give you the basic settings for this engine and the carbs on this engine so it will run after you have done the other two things. The carbs on a 1976 R90/6 are the Bing 64/32/11 & 12. I don't think at this point we are suspecting any problems inside the carbs like plugged jets or bad/maladjusted floats? What you need is the basic setting for these carbs that will make the bike run well enough to get it warmed up. This follows;

There are two screw adjustments on the underside of the carbs. If you are not working on a bike stand but the bike is on the ground you will have to lay on your back on the ground to see these screws. The smaller screw that is inside a shrouded part of the carb body is the mixture screw. For this bike the mixture screw is one turn out. Turn the screw in gently till it seats. Do not turn the screw in tightly. It can be damaged or, because the screw is steel and the seat is Aluminum or Brass, the seat can be damaged. Turn the screw out some and in several times but don't seat it too tight. Then after you have found bottom turn this screw out One (1) Turn. This is the basic setting for these carbs on an R90/6. Other years and other carbs may have a different setting so if your buddy with an R80 G/S tells you he uses a different setting don't worry. Different bikes, years, carbs, different basic settings. I get this information from the Bing manual.

The other screw on the bottom of the carb is the idle speed screw. It is larger. It has a spring around it, that you can see, the mix screw also has a spring on it but it's inside and not visible. The idle speed screw opens the throttle butterfly, but just a little, to allow the engine to idle. It is really hard to see with the carbs on the engine but the idle speed screw should be about one turn in from the point it first contacts the lever it pushes against. I get this setting from an old friend of mine, it's not in the book.

If no other problems with the carbs this will allow you to ride enough to warm the engine and then be able to properly balance the carbs. We will maybe have to do another whole couple of pages on balancing but I think that can wait till you report back on progress.
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:46 PM   #39
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well....

After a few calls to Tim (Big Bamboo) i think i sorted out the valve clearance. but i'm still hearing a valve ticking that to me seems too loud, Tim said you should hear something but i think its too loud which has me think i've done something wrong.

but the bike started up and for the first 20 minutes ran great, no problems, then as soon as the engine warmed up it started stumbling/coughing/back firing again.... sucks.... was hoping to fix the issue...

Also checked both fuel bowls and they both had nothing but clean clear fuel in them.

What should i try next?

I did say in previous posts that it only seamed to be happening on the right side but today it was both and very well could have been both the last time we checked. So lets just assume its always been both from the beginning.
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:51 PM   #40
disston
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Set the carb mixture screws to one turn out. This is the basic starting setting for your bike in the Bing manual. Further directions and explanations are in my two posts above which I made when you were on the phone with Tim.
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:55 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disston View Post
When you are trying to adjust the valves you will have to rotate the engine either by a Hex Key in the alternator bolt with the engine in neutral, or the engine in gear, higher gear works better, and rotating the rear wheel. Which ever method is used remove both spark plugs so you aren't rotating against engine compression.

I know you are keeping your eyes out for some loose wire, dirty connector, solution to this problem But in the mean time we would like you to put the bike in a state of basic good tune. It's been said before, (1) set the valves, (2) Adjust the timing, (3) adjust carbs on a warmed up engine.

So far we have said a lot about adjusting the valves. This is a critical adjustment for you to get right and to get it right it must be done right. So I hope you get this part. For timing adjustment you will need a timing light and know how to use it. Have you got the timing light? And the know how?

And for the 3rd thing I'm going to give you the basic settings for this engine and the carbs on this engine so it will run after you have done the other two things. The carbs on a 1976 R90/6 are the Bing 64/32/11 & 12. I don't think at this point we are suspecting any problems inside the carbs like plugged jets or bad/maladjusted floats? What you need is the basic setting for these carbs that will make the bike run well enough to get it warmed up. This follows;

There are two screw adjustments on the underside of the carbs. If you are not working on a bike stand but the bike is on the ground you will have to lay on your back on the ground to see these screws. The smaller screw that is inside a shrouded part of the carb body is the mixture screw. For this bike the mixture screw is one turn out. Turn the screw in gently till it seats. Do not turn the screw in tightly. It can be damaged or, because the screw is steel and the seat is Aluminum or Brass, the seat can be damaged. Turn the screw out some and in several times but don't seat it too tight. Then after you have found bottom turn this screw out One (1) Turn. This is the basic setting for these carbs on an R90/6. Other years and other carbs may have a different setting so if your buddy with an R80 G/S tells you he uses a different setting don't worry. Different bikes, years, carbs, different basic settings. I get this information from the Bing manual.

The other screw on the bottom of the carb is the idle speed screw. It is larger. It has a spring around it, that you can see, the mix screw also has a spring on it but it's inside and not visible. The idle speed screw opens the throttle butterfly, but just a little, to allow the engine to idle. It is really hard to see with the carbs on the engine but the idle speed screw should be about one turn in from the point it first contacts the lever it pushes against. I get this setting from an old friend of mine, it's not in the book.

If no other problems with the carbs this will allow you to ride enough to warm the engine and then be able to properly balance the carbs. We will maybe have to do another whole couple of pages on balancing but I think that can wait till you report back on progress.
Have a timing Light, have a good idea how to use it thanks to Tim but won't turn down any more advice.

thanks so much for the help and advice! i'm going to spend the day tomorrow messing with it again. Thanks!
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:01 PM   #42
Big Bamboo
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Next time take the timing light with you and when it starts backfiring etc pull over and check that you are getting full advance and that it returns to the S mark at idle. Could be a sticking advance unit... Did you try adjusting the carbs a bit richer at idle like I said?
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:04 PM   #43
Yachtie OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disston View Post
Set the carb mixture screws to one turn out. This is the basic starting setting for your bike in the Bing manual. Further directions and explanations are in my two posts above which I made when you were on the phone with Tim.
Did that, found that sweet spot as Tim put it. Seemed to let the bike idle better but the stumbling under throttle persists...
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:53 PM   #44
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As BB says you can try the mixture a little richer, that's out, to correct for back firing. As strange as it sounds a lean mixture will cause back firing.

Puzzle, puzzle, puzzle. Eventually you will learn this stuff.
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:14 PM   #45
Big Bamboo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disston View Post
As BB says you can try the mixture a little richer, that's out, to correct for back firing. As strange as it sounds a lean mixture will cause back firing.

Puzzle, puzzle, puzzle. Eventually you will learn this stuff.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking; less restrictive air filters pulling less fuel.
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