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Old 01-25-2013, 05:47 AM   #526
blacktiger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarno123 View Post
A question related to the Triumph crashbars, whether it's OEM or aftermarket:



This is from the sibirsky extreme thread. What is your take on this? Can you mount the crashbars properly without it transmitting the impact through to the engine? Is it to protect the plactic bits, or will it actually have protect something more?

Somewhere further along in the Sibirsky extreme thread they mention that if you have wider bashplates, you don't need the crashbars anymore. Do you have any thoughts on this?
My take on this is that it all depends on the shape of the engine. IMO the Tiger engine needs crash/engine bars because it has vulnerable bits sticking out the side. i.e. the generator is on the LH end of the crank. The other side not so much but the crash bars do also help stop the radiator from touching down. With regard to the bars transmitting the shock to the engine. Well, the Tiger's crash bars are mounted to the engine in several places and the engine castings are designed with crash bars in mind and,therefore, to take the shock.
Their reference to the boxer engine being tough is incorrect. I've seen the rocker cover on an airhead Beemer holed in a simple fall. And, indeed, my R100GS came with protector bars around the cylinder to prevent that from happening. And their reference to the Dakar is also incorrect, I see crash bars on this bike. http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgur...Q9QEwAw&dur=21
And these. http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgur...QEwAw&dur=1137 Hubert Auriol (centre) won the Dakar on these bikes in 1981 & 1983. Those racers came with rocker "halves" and it was also quite common for BMW riders to carry a spare somewhere on the bike, just in case. You can see it just below the seat in this photo. http://images.motorcycle-usa.com/Pho...--winning-.jpg

You've also got to consider that owners of a pretty pricey bike are going to want to protect their asset. If that guy doesn't want to protect his Tiger, that's his prerogative but why take the risk that a fall will end your ride with a chunk of the engine hanging off?
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:24 AM   #527
Jarno123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacktiger View Post
My take on this is that it all depends on the shape of the engine. IMO the Tiger engine needs crash/engine bars because it has vulnerable bits sticking out the side. i.e. the generator is on the LH end of the crank. The other side not so much but the crash bars do also help stop the radiator from touching down. With regard to the bars transmitting the shock to the engine. Well, the Tiger's crash bars are mounted to the engine in several places and the engine castings are designed with crash bars in mind and,therefore, to take the shock.
I agree, it does depend on the shape of the engine, which is why I'm asking it here since I don't own one (yet) and I don't want to keep going to the dealer. It makes me look silly
So I'll take your worth for it, that the Tiger has it's fair share of bits sticking out, which you want to protect. I was just wondering what would happen if you would fall down with the bike. Will the handlebar touch the ground, and prevent the rest of the bike from touching down? Or can the engine still touch the ground?
As for your remark that the mount is designed to take the shock. I have heard stories of crashbars transmitting the force to the frame, and by doing so, the frame got bend. Obviously it's a little extreme, but normally you would expect that construction to be designed with that in mind as well. So I don't know how well I can trust Triumph's designers.
Regarding your comment on the mounting points. Is that good? To mount a crashbar on the engine? Or would there be a better alternative in an ideal world? What would be best? Once again, I don't know, I'm just informing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blacktiger View Post
Their reference to the boxer engine being tough is incorrect. I've seen the rocker cover on an airhead Beemer holed in a simple fall. And, indeed, my R100GS came with protector bars around the cylinder to prevent that from happening. And their reference to the Dakar is also incorrect, I see crash bars on this bike. http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgur...Q9QEwAw&dur=21
And these. http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgur...QEwAw&dur=1137 Hubert Auriol (centre) won the Dakar on these bikes in 1981 & 1983.

You've also got to consider that owners of a pretty pricey bike are going to want to protect their asset. If that guy doesn't want to protect his Tiger, that's his prerogative but why take the risk that a fall will end your ride with a chunk of the engine hanging off?
And as for the pricey bike bit, I agree, I just want to know whether or not the crashbar protect more then "just" a little plastic.
To be fair, Walter was talking about some sort of BMW bike, no really familiar with those, but I believe it was the gs650 he's talking about.

PS. Isn't dakar 1981 way different then 2013? Can you honestly use that as a reference? I'm just asking, not questioning your statement.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:40 AM   #528
blacktiger
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Originally Posted by Jarno123 View Post
PS. Isn't dakar 1981 way different then 2013? Can you honestly use that as a reference? I'm just asking, not questioning your statement.
He did mention "prutsers boxer". F650 is not a boxer engine. I didn't think he was referring to his undercrackers so hence my going back that far.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:49 AM   #529
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Originally Posted by Jarno123 View Post
I agree, it does depend on the shape of the engine, which is why I'm asking it here since I don't own one (yet) and I don't want to keep going to the dealer. It makes me look silly
So I'll take your worth for it, that the Tiger has it's fair share of bits sticking out, which you want to protect. I was just wondering what would happen if you would fall down with the bike. Will the handlebar touch the ground, and prevent the rest of the bike from touching down? Or can the engine still touch the ground?
As for your remark that the mount is designed to take the shock. I have heard stories of crashbars transmitting the force to the frame, and by doing so, the frame got bend. Obviously it's a little extreme, but normally you would expect that construction to be designed with that in mind as well. So I don't know how well I can trust Triumph's designers.
Regarding your comment on the mounting points. Is that good? To mount a crashbar on the engine? Or would there be a better alternative in an ideal world? What would be best? Once again, I don't know, I'm just informing.



And as for the pricey bike bit, I agree, I just want to know whether or not the crashbar protect more then "just" a little plastic.
To be fair, Walter was talking about some sort of BMW bike, no really familiar with those, but I believe it was the gs650 he's talking about.

PS. Isn't dakar 1981 way different then 2013? Can you honestly use that as a reference? I'm just asking, not questioning your statement.
I can comment on that from first hand experience. This pic is from a tip over at zero speed speed on a dirt road.




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Old 01-25-2013, 06:53 AM   #530
blacktiger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarno123 View Post
I was just wondering what would happen if you would fall down with the bike. Will the handlebar touch the ground, and prevent the rest of the bike from touching down? Or can the engine still touch the ground?
As for your remark that the mount is designed to take the shock. I have heard stories of crashbars transmitting the force to the frame, and by doing so, the frame got bend. Obviously it's a little extreme, but normally you would expect that construction to be designed with that in mind as well. So I don't know how well I can trust Triumph's designers.
Regarding your comment on the mounting points. Is that good? To mount a crashbar on the engine? Or would there be a better alternative in an ideal world? What would be best? Once again, I don't know, I'm just informing.
I think the engine would make contact with the ground without the engine bars. The handlebars will fold back to full lock and give very little protection to anything. (Edit) Burmbuster confirms it above.
Triumph's design is the best in the world so IMO can be trusted. And, as I said the cases were designed with the crash bars in mind. Most other designs seem to be after thoughts. Also, as there is no frame running under the engine there is no other way of mounting the engine bars. Each side is mounted in three points with a connecting bar running across the front. So any impact is effectively taken by SIX contact points. My bike's been down really hard with no damage except paint missing off the engine bars.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:57 AM   #531
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Originally Posted by cug View Post
And I don't think people use the Giant Loop as "last resort", it's just that what works for some, doesn't work for others. I get that you like the Wolfmans, but that doesn't mean you have to say that others are "last resort" or less well made . Because that's plain not true.

And don't get me wrong as I said that before: I think the Giant Loop is a great idea with sub-optimal execution. They aren't waterproof and they are expensive as hell for what they are.
Personally I like the Wolfman Expedition saddlebags -- I agree they're a bit of a pain to mount/dismount, but that happens only at the beginning and end of a trip, for me at least. And I actually made it easier for next time by leaving them mounted to my Givi racks -- I just unbuckled the throw-over straps and dismounted the racks with the bags on them. As for using the bags during the trip, I find them easy to get in and out of, and I like the fact that their volume can be adjusted by rolling down the top more or fewer times. One fastex buckle on each side and a strap over the top, and the bag is securely closed and 100% waterproof. Takes ten seconds.

I get that it might seem like a bit of a hassle for people who are used to just closing the lid of a hard case and flipping a latch, but it really doesn't take much getting used to.

I personally don't care for the design of the Giant Loop bags. Just don't really like having one large bag instead of two or three smaller ones. I prefer having things a little more compartmentalized in the smaller bags. But of course that too is just a matter of preference.

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Old 01-25-2013, 07:38 AM   #532
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Thanks a lot guys for clearing this out!
Cheers!
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:51 AM   #533
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I dig the Forma Adventure Boots on his site. Wonder if they have them state side? Hmmm.
competition accy is carrying the whole Forma line now. Atomic moto has the adventure boots.

Another style that looks interesting from Forma is the CAPE HORN. Sure would like to see both in hand and try on.

Cape Horn ($299):



Adventure ($299):



Another new one from them is the BOULDER ($249), a trials type boot, reported to be better than the Gaernes:

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Old 01-25-2013, 08:02 AM   #534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarno123 View Post
A question related to the Triumph crashbars, whether it's OEM or aftermarket:

This is from the sibirsky extreme thread. What is your take on this? Can you mount the crashbars properly without it transmitting the impact through to the engine? Is it to protect the plactic bits, or will it actually have protect something more?

Somewhere further along in the Sibirsky extreme thread they mention that if you have wider bashplates, you don't need the crashbars anymore. Do you have any thoughts on this?
I've referenced this thread before, as I think Tyson's bike has probably hit the ground the most of any T800 I've seen. He's not had the sides of the bike touch down. I think that speaks volumes about the usefulness of the HT crashbars.

As for the quoted comment, a racebike is totally different from one's personal bike. Racers don't care about scratches. In roadracing, one almost never sees frame protectors. They run crashworthy engine covers. It's been argued, infinite times, about the risks of engine damage from frame protectors. My take has always been that if the crash was bad enough to break the cases, then the whole bike is probably a write off. However, I've never seen low-speed crashes break any cases. For me, it's worth it to take the "risk" with crashbars, to save everything else, should I drop the bike. It's a sacrificial piece.

On the T800, I don't think a wider bashguard would do anything but protect the stator side of the engine in a frontal impact. If you were drop it straight down, onto a rock, it's still risking breaking the cover.
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:05 AM   #535
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I'm in the market for new boots. Thanks, for posting those offerings. They're more ADVer and not so much MXer.

I'd been looking at these.
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:06 AM   #536
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Originally Posted by Jarno123 View Post
I agree, it does depend on the shape of the engine, which is why I'm asking it here since I don't own one (yet) and I don't want to keep going to the dealer. It makes me look silly

>snip

Regarding your comment on the mounting points. Is that good? To mount a crashbar on the engine? Or would there be a better alternative in an ideal world? What would be best? Once again, I don't know, I'm just informing.

>snip.
First, I would say wait 'till you get a bike then dig into what accessories you'll really need once you get some miles on it.

Second, this is not a dirtbike. It's a road bike that has been adapted to travel off pavement. It is heavy, suspension is soft, and the motor and gearing is oriented for road going.

The ideal crash bar attachment point is the frame. The ideal design is a down-tube cradle frame with a substantial skid plate attached to the frame at the bottom, ala motocross/enduro bike.

The Tiger has been designed with the option to add protection bars to the motor to protect it from a lay down. If you crash it hard enough it's gonna break something.

If you crash it hard enough it will break the passenger foot peg brackets off and bend the frame - the sub is an integarted part of the main frame.

The factory handguards are plastic. If you crash it hard enough it will break them and bend the bars, break all your levers and mirrors off. If you do a lot of offroad a pair of guards with an aluminum backbone is highly suggested.

It's fun to discuss all the little add-on doodads you can do with these bikes, but let's not lose sight of what the design intention was for it and not try to make it something it's not. It makes a horrible dirtbike. It makes a fantastic adventure bike that is road oriented. It will NOT keep up with lightweight enduro bikes offroad. Any wild ideas that it could is just a pipe dream.

IMHO a guy should have a bike for each type of riding he likes to do.
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:59 AM   #537
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Another style that looks interesting from Forma is the CAPE HORN. Sure would like to see both in hand and try on.
If they haven't made them at least a little bit stiffer, I would not buy them again. I have the previous model of these and the protection is on par with a pure leather road touring boot. It's just higher.

Oh, and the buckles are crap on mine, they don't stay where I set them, and when I tried I wasn't able to get replacement parts. Might be better on newer boots though.
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:00 AM   #538
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One more hint for the Forma boots: as far as I know, Forma makes the boots for BMW.
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:06 AM   #539
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One more hint for the Forma boots: as far as I know, Forma makes the boots for BMW.
I wouldn't be surprised if they also made them for Hein Gerricke http://www.hein-gericke.co.uk/boots-...r-stiefel.html and TCX http://www.tcxboots.com/eng/prodotti...hp?prodotto=10 as well as they're all a very similar design.
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:12 AM   #540
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Yes. Totally possible. The Cape Horn are not GoreTex btw. Breathability on the old ones was okay. Not great, but okay.
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