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Old 03-19-2013, 08:30 PM   #91
vivo
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Croak...

I'm convinced this is a better bike than I had expected from the photos... It's much more road bike and so the sport touring classification seems fitting.

Not loving the I Phone connectivity... these phone formats have a very short lifespan. I'm not sure you need to know torque and horsepower on the fly but as said it has other uses... as an option I suppose it's ok. The suspension being fully active sounds cool... wonder what we did for these many years without computers tweaking the settings? If I could ride like him I might like that the suspension does what it does and I think it's the sportbike rider this bike is aimed at. That segment surely will grow as we age. Being put on a rack with your butt in the air becomes a half day of fun followed by several days of aches and pains...this kind of bike is the answer!

Looks like a nice bike. It obviously isn't an off rode tank and that might be best? Aprilia does know how to make a sport bike.

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Old 03-19-2013, 09:04 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by vivo View Post
Croak...


Not loving the I Phone connectivity... these phone formats have a very short lifespan.

Vivo
According to some reports I've read, it's not restricted to iPhone connectivity, it also works with Android phones. The interface isn't even via cable, it's via Bluetooth, which means it could be supported by any smartphone with Bluetooth in the future. Personally, (assuming I buy the bike) I'm planning on using my 2-year old Galaxy S2 without a SIM installed. It's my "backup" phone, which is currently gathering dust in a drawer, something I wouldn't fuss too much about walking off or falling off.

The cradle shown is an Evotech 4Lock you can buy for any bike (or bicycle) and merely supplies USB power and comes with a waterproof "shower cap".
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:32 PM   #93
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Well then... the interface is better than I thought too... That aside... the bike seems really well thought out for the segment it is intended for. I had a Capo. It was a nice bike, nothing about it felt modern though...

I would be interested in this bike if we had a local Aprilia dealer. I like Aprilia and Guzzi and just got a new NTX. I don't much care for the Multi's look. It hasn't grown on me and I much prefer the look of the Aprilia.

Wish Piaggio well...

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Old 03-19-2013, 10:55 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Croak View Post

Personally, I like the concept of the Multistrada, think it's the greatest thing since sliced cheese, as it does suit my type of riding, as a person who's spent maybe an hour on dirt bikes off-road, but decades on sport bikes on the road and track.

Because of that, I'd never even CONSIDER owning an ETV1000. .
I'm likely to be one of the very few people who have both bikes, EVT and a Multi, so I have a perspective on this. I think you are spot on in assessing this, more so now that we see a clearer picture of this development. Thinking about it, I'd suggest that Aprilia was not terribly successful in moving EVTs off the showroom floor so perhaps it should not be a surprise that the new one is focused a bit differently. What's more, I think the market for this type of machine is going to be quite large but it requires people to think honestly about how they really use the machine and not be put off by the direct approach to a motorcycle built to ride roads when in fact, those are the thing that most of them use 95% of the time. It's exactly what I wanted and why I bought the Multistrada and not a GS or a KTM this time.

I wish Aprilia great good luck and think that if enough people are honest with themselves Aprilia will attract its buyers. For those looking for a bike focused on dirt, the Caponord will not be the first choice just as the Ducati shouldn't be, and that category might as well include the GS for a great many of its riders. If one is looking for a practical alternative for a broad range of street uses including daily riding, touring and a sensibly arranged sporting experience, the Multistrada finally has direct competition.

I think smaller bikes are better suited to dual sport use anyway, and have never been clear what the appeal is in taking a 600 pound motorcycle through deserts and over mountains. Surely there are easier and more efficient ways to do that . For each ass, a seat but wouldn't you like to be able to pick it up when it falls down as it surely will in four foot ruts?


Precis, this one's not got your name on it, but I hope those at whom it is targeted will take the opportunity to give it a fair shake.

Have you seen anywhere how much the Aprilia weighs?

In respect to "how it looks:" from certain angles it is a clear homage to the Multistrada.Vivo, I'm perplexed how you might find the Aprilia attractive but the Multi unattractive. I do like the lack of a beak on the Capo....I'll give it that. Otherwise, more alike than different, which is fine with me.

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Old 03-19-2013, 11:14 PM   #95
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Travel Pack model is supposed to be around 250kg wet, with a full tank of fuel, panniers, centre stand, etc. Call it 560 pounds. The base model is 14kg/30lbs lighter, with the bulk of that weight savings due to no panniers and mounts, and a few pounds saved with no ADD electronics or motors.

Based on real world weighings, the Multistrada S is actually somewhere north the 520 pound range with panniers and a full tank, so it's still lighter, but not by as much as the oft-quoted dry weight figures from Ducati would lead you to believe (Ducati's figures seem to be based on a bike with no panniers or even mounts, no centre stand, no active suspension components, etc).

Besides, I'm fairly certain there's a quick 20 pounds to be saved ditching that rather large stock exhaust on the Caponord. :)

And while I can't speak for Vivo, I can say it's the beak that's kept me away from the MTS so far. It's not quite the slap in the face it was when I first saw it in 2009, but it still hurts a bit.

My own take, with this bike Aprilia finally plugged the gap in their model line that used to be filled by the Futura. And there's been a fair amount of clamoring for that replacement. They just gave it the wrong name this time. :)
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:33 PM   #96
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Getting back to my earlier edit on Australian prices, turns out that $20,995 AUD price is for the Travel Pack model, the base model is not coming to Australia.

That's $9,000 less than the Multistrada S Touring, and $2,000 AUD less than even the base Multistrada. This bodes well for the sales potential of this bike.

http://www.mcnews.com.au/2013_Bikes/...200/Intro1.htm
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Old 03-20-2013, 12:40 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Croak View Post
Getting back to my earlier edit on Australian prices, turns out that $20,995 AUD price is for the Travel Pack model, the base model is not coming to Australia.

That's $9,000 less than the Multistrada S Touring, and $2,000 AUD less than even the base Multistrada. This bodes well for the sales potential of this bike.

http://www.mcnews.com.au/2013_Bikes/...200/Intro1.htm
The Multi is expensive, but less so on a comparative basis here than in Australia. I don't know why the Australians get so pounded on the Multi, but we do relatively better here. I expect the price difference will be a few thousand bucks to start, maybe three for comparably equipped models. And that should be enough.

What Aprilia needs to avoid is getting into the situation of having too many bikes which then need to be dumped. That has happened multiple times in the past to the detriment of resale values, as any new/early adopter Aprilia buyer will know. I wouldn't be surprised if they limit supply at the start to avoid that scenario or at east control it conservatively. That's what I would do.

As regards the Multi's looks: if you own one it really grows on you, especially the PP, which is a stunner. Pretty is as pretty does, and the Multi sets a very high bar for riding pleasure. No BS, that is the way it is. Anybody who says otherwise hasn't ridden one.
Purely on looks of course everything is subjective and I like the beak a whole lot better than I did before I bought the bike. Surely you understand.
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Old 03-20-2013, 06:05 AM   #98
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Conversation with Dave Richardson

From Squadra Guzzi, in an interview with Kevin Hoffberg:
Conversation with Dave Richardson, Moto International Owner, The Guy You Want to Buy a Bike From.

"I’ve heard from Aprilia that their approach is to look at a segment and the competition . . . they run their calculators and ask, “Can we build a bike that’s better than the competition for less money.” If they see that, they do it. That doesn’t mean they’re always the best or the cheapest. But that’s their approach."
"You’re basically holding up a mirror and reflecting it off everyone else. That bothers me. I feel like that Aprilia doesn’t have enough individualism. They’re looking too much at Ducati. They have much more inventiveness on the scooter side than they do on the motorcycle side."
"The next generation of Aprilias will be a V-Twin based on the Shiver... they’ve said that engine goes 750 to 1200 ccs. It’s a 90-degree twin which will give away what’s unique with the 60-degree twin and be sort of a Ducati which it really isn’t. Rather than going with something that’s unique and arguably better, they go back to copying again."
"And in America, I think that we sometime make decisions based more on what our friends are going to think of it. So do you buy a bike that isn’t the highest horsepower? Are you a wuss or something? It reminds me of when Aprilia brought a 450 and a 550 to the market. They were maybe $500 apart in price. Well, who in the world would buy a 450 when you can buy a 550? If you’re going to race in a 450 class that’s fine, but if not, you’re a wuss. Aprilia said they felt like their customers were discerning enough to know their horsepower requirements. I said, “You have to be nuts.”

- from one of the US's - and probably the world's - top Aprilia dealers.
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Old 03-20-2013, 06:18 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Croak View Post
Getting back to my earlier edit on Australian prices, turns out that $20,995 AUD price is for the Travel Pack model, the base model is not coming to Australia.

That's $9,000 less than the Multistrada S Touring, and $2,000 AUD less than even the base Multistrada. This bodes well for the sales potential of this bike.

http://www.mcnews.com.au/2013_Bikes/...200/Intro1.htm
That's AU$20,995 PLUS on-road costs... which, depending upon where you live & register it, could add $4000 or more to the base-price.
They're quoting a dry weight of 228kg - so, about 30kg UP on the 1200cc twin-cylinder BMW GS - the one with shaft-drive....
Add 24 litres of fuel, brake & clutch fluid, fork oil, couple of litres of coolant, four litres of oil etc and you've poured over 30kg more into it.

As for "boding well" for the Capo-not - you're ignoring the ability Australian Aprilia dealers have for alienating customers!
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Old 03-20-2013, 06:58 AM   #100
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Actually, we don't have enough of those.
It's clearly not your cup of tea, since you seem to have a strong disdain for any pavement-oriented motorcycle, perfectly understandable with you practically living in the bush and all, and with Australian laws and road revenue generation what it is these days. But then again there's no shortage of bikes that fit your criteria to one degree or another.
Disdain? Not at all: I still own more roadbikes than ADV-bikes - and have straight-up dirt-bikes too; I've done many hundreds of thousands of km/miles on street-bikes and they have their place. Plus, while I've roadraced any number of bikes, I'd never consider tackling an off-road event of any substance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Croak View Post
Personally, I like the concept of the Multistrada, think it's the greatest thing since sliced cheese, as it does suit my type of riding, as a person who's spent maybe an hour on dirt bikes off-road, but decades on sport bikes on the road and track.
And that's fine - I guess I'm railing against misleading semantics - the Ducati is NOT capable of tackling "All-roads" as its name implies, and it is not an ADV-bike, in exactly the same way that the Capo-not is not an ADV-bike. Too bad Aprilia couldn't be bothered to come up with a new name to reflect the new model's capabilities or intended audience - though "Old Guy's image-enhancer" is a lot to get onto the sidecovers and "Viagra" is taken.

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Because of that, I'd never even CONSIDER owning an ETV1000. Rode a couple, and just like any other big ADV bike, they're simply not for me where I ride and the way I like to ride. So personally I'm GLAD they're not trying to simply update that old mule, nice as it was for what it was at the time.
And continues to be: twice in recent months, my wife has been asked if her (2001 model) Caponord is an new model from Aprilia (hers is much shinier than mine!); barring the ground clearance issues (fixed on my Capo), hers performs as well as most "sports" bikes - 100 horsepower isn't much different to 125hp, if you're only using 75 of them... and she has no problem filling the mirrors on some of the hunchback riders who come to play on the tarred roads in our patch on weekends - and we're old enough to be most of these kiddy's parents too! When a 50+ year old woman rounds you up in the corners and then takes her helmet off at the coffee-stop - well, more than a few kids go real quiet!
I bought my ETV almost by accident and liked it; so did she, so we found one for her too - though she's now thinking that it's more motorcycle than she needs and is looking at lighter, more nimble, more wieldy ADV alternatives: she still has two road-bikes and a trail-bike.

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Anyway...while I like the idea of a (relatively) light, upright, fairly naked, road-only Sport Tourer with high-tech suspension and a big twin, I'm not a fan of spending that much dosh on one, or dealing with the local Ducati dealerships and ownership experience in general, and I still haven't come to terms with the styling either.
Light? Bu-wahaahaa! 228kg dry - plus upwards of 30kg in fluids? Light? What's a GoldWing? Medium-weight?

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Prior to the Caponord 1200 details coming clear, the new 1190 Adventure came real close to fitting my personal shopping list but loses points for the ugly, bulky, wide top loading panniers, loses a few more points for garish decals and colour choices, another few points for lack of local support here, and then throws the score sheet right out the window with 19" fronts and 170 rears (though it is wider than most rubber found on that class of bikes, and if the Capo 12 didn't come along it'd be top of my short list still).
So, pull off the panniers, sell them to a one-eyed purist and respray the bike - or simply rip off the offensive decals; if you don't like the 170-mm wide rear tyre - well, you're going to love the Capo-not's 180....
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:58 AM   #101
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Only downsides mentioned from those French reports: possibly the fuel consumption and the finish with cables and hoses which could be better hidden. No mention of fuelling issues at low rpms.

Apart from that, it sounds exactly like my old capo for me, a very capable bike for travelling and commuting in London traffic with a good turning radius. And seeing the state if the roads here, the suspension will be very welcome.

I just wish there was a shaft drive and more options like heated seats or engine bars!

But it does sound the ticket. They do call it a sport trail...
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Old 03-20-2013, 09:09 AM   #102
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The Multi's beak is polarizing visually and not exactly original, a bit hyper, a bit gs but to me so unattractive. I have no doubt it's a great bike. The rear panniers aren't exactly my cup of tea either but as a sport bike alternative it rocks

The Aprilia is set to complete in the Ducati Multi market slot. They both seem very similar in design brief. I would love to own another Aprilia. No doubt the two wilk be the subject of magazine competition articles, a better match than the Stelvio, KTM, Explorer, GS types..

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Old 03-20-2013, 10:26 AM   #103
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Light? Bu-wahaahaa! 228kg dry - plus upwards of 30kg in fluids? Light? What's a GoldWing? Medium-weight?
Heh, yep, when you consider the weight of everything else out there these days marketed as Sport Touring bikes, it is on the light side. FJR1300@ 290kg, C14@305kg, Norge@270kg, Sprint GT@270kg, etc. The R1200 is about the same weight as the Caponord, but, well, it's an R1200. Stretching things a bit, the Ninja 1000 is about 10-15kg lighter.

That leaves the Ducati and the KTM as bikes lighter than the new Capo in the category and not by a lot. Weight without fuel on the base 1190 KTM (no panniers, no electronic suspension), for instance, is 212kg, compared to 214kg on the similarly equipped Capo, and there's only a litre difference in tank sizes, so we're only talking about 3 kilos difference in favour of the KTM.

Quote:
So, pull off the panniers, sell them to a one-eyed purist and respray the bike - or simply rip off the offensive decals; if you don't like the 170-mm wide rear tyre - well, you're going to love the Capo-not's 180....
I like slim-fit panniers, but the only way you'll get those on the KTM is going with something like Givi PLX cases, which still requires mounting unsightly scaffolding on the bike to replace the factory integrated mounts.

As for rubber, the Capo does come with a 6" rear wheel, it was designed with optional 190/55 rubber in mind (and all the fancy electronics will auto-calibrate as you change tire sizes too). You might be able to spoon 180/55's on the KTM, if the rear hoop is 5" and not 4.5", but you'd also get a profile that's a bit weird with a rim that narrow.

Oh, and I just got confirmation it was the pegs scraping on that video:

Quote:
Quick question? What's touching down when you hear the hard parts dragging? The centre stand or the hero blobs on the pegs?

Reply
raptorama 35 minutes ago:
That'll be the pegs and due to the ADD it's completely without drama.
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:32 AM   #104
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Here comes the English reviews:

Quote:
When I first saw the Caponord at the EICMA show, I quickly dismissed it as a smart, full-dress evolution of the Aprilia Dorsoduro, a bike conceived to snatch a slice of the growing adventure-touring pie from the iconic BMW R1200GS. However, after riding the Aprilia Caponord 1200 on some secluded and twisty roads on Sardinia, I must apologize to the Aprilia technical team: The new Caponord is actually a smartly conceived and very efficient street-biased adventure-tourer that only looks inspired by the Dorsoduro when seen from afar.
http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/03/20...00-first-ride/
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:34 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Precis View Post
From Squadra Guzzi, in an interview with Kevin Hoffberg:
Conversation with Dave Richardson, Moto International Owner, The Guy You Want to Buy a Bike From.

"I’ve heard from Aprilia that their approach is to look at a segment and the competition . . . they run their calculators and ask, “Can we build a bike that’s better than the competition for less money.” If they see that, they do it. That doesn’t mean they’re always the best or the cheapest. But that’s their approach."
.............”

- from one of the US's - and probably the world's - top Aprilia dealers.
I've mentioned Dave here before. I count him as a friend, and he is indeed the guy you want to buy a bike from, especially an Aprilia or Guzzi. His (for us Puget Sound folks) local dealership means that a purchase of one of these brands is risk free. I expect he will be cautious as he steps into this machine, but I don't think that means he can't be surprised by it's success. Neither is he a seer, and he would be the first to say so. By the way, you can find such thoughts on AF1's website. I recall as you do reading similar comments on their sponsored site a few months back when the machine was first announced.

Probably the potentially most disappointing aspect of this (you could say "these") bike(s) is it's weight. Giving the Multi it's due and acknowledging that none of us who own one trust the factory weight spec, it nonetheless does a hat trick and somewhat melts away underneath you when you swing a leg over it, especially compared to the other heavyweights of the class like the GS and the S10. If Aprilia pulls off that trick, the weight as it impacts the bike as a pure road weapon will be less a concern. Unfortunately, along with horsepower, AMericans also seem to like a bit of weight with their touring rides, so perhaps that will work in the bike's favor. For me it has become a disincentive. I find some of the AAprilia's feature set to be very interesting but also wonder about the lack of heated grips. Perhaps waiting until we see the final specification might be wise.

Here's another first ride, this one from Cycle World.


Persuant to pricing, note their comments at the end of the article.
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