ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > Racing
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-29-2012, 10:22 AM   #346
Pantah
Red Sox Nation
 
Pantah's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: India Wharf
Oddometer: 9,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurky-Loo View Post
Complete speculation, but given that he's got less mass to shift over the bike, my guess is that he's using his right hand to stand the bike up quickly. By that I mean that he finishes some turns with an extra helping of throttle; this slides the back slightly pulling the bike upright sooner, at which point the rear regains grip and the extra throttle turns the slide into early acceleration.

That kind of control is what makes him an alien.
Talk about complete speculation!
__________________
Straight ahead and faster -Bo Weaver 1970
"There I was..." -Griffin Niner Three Hotel
"One day closer to a parade..." Jonny Gomes, spring training 2013
Pantah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 11:44 AM   #347
Lurky-Loo
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Oddometer: 445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantah View Post
Talk about complete speculation!
If you're going to lie, lie big.

I don't have video clips as examples, but it seems to me that on many of Pedrosa's exits there are times when there's an abrupt transition from being leaned over to being upright. Since Newton's Third Law would preclude this happening by stomping on the outside peg (because that would cause Pedrosa to hang off further, which he doesn't do), I'm going to stick to my throttle theory.

For now.
Lurky-Loo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 11:49 AM   #348
BeeCeeGS
WeaponOfMassDestruction
 
BeeCeeGS's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Chilliwack, BC
Oddometer: 1,787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurky-Loo View Post
Complete speculation, but given that he's got less mass to shift over the bike, my guess is that he's using his right hand to stand the bike up quickly. By that I mean that he finishes some turns with an extra helping of throttle; this slides the back slightly pulling the bike upright sooner, at which point the rear regains grip and the extra throttle turns the slide into early acceleration.

That kind of control is what makes him an alien.
That's how it looks on TV, anyways. It's almost a "mini(me)highside".
__________________
Every day I break my previous record of consecutive days still alive.
BeeCeeGS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 11:52 AM   #349
wiseblood
Hall Monitor
 
wiseblood's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: New York City
Oddometer: 11,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurky-Loo View Post
If you're going to lie, lie big.

I don't have video clips as examples, but it seems to me that on many of Pedrosa's exits there are times when there's an abrupt transition from being leaned over to being upright. Since Newton's Third Law would preclude this happening by stomping on the outside peg (because that would cause Pedrosa to hang off further, which he doesn't do), I'm going to stick to my throttle theory.

For now.

There's also this new thing they're doing in MotoGP called "counter steering."
__________________
"Hard Work Often Pays Off After Time, but Laziness Always Pays Off Now."

Big Apple Tag-o-Rama Maps: Click Here!
wiseblood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 11:59 AM   #350
Lurky-Loo
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Oddometer: 445
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiseblood View Post
There's also this new thing they're doing in MotoGP called "counter steering."
On exits?

I see Pedrosa with his wheel crossed up after a turn, but that's because once he's upright he's wheelieing and is trying to keep it balanced. See esp. the last turn of Misano this year (during practice, not the race. Thanks Hector!).

Edit: vid of Pedrosa wheelie
Lurky-Loo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 12:01 PM   #351
wiseblood
Hall Monitor
 
wiseblood's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: New York City
Oddometer: 11,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurky-Loo View Post
On exits?
Sure, why not? Try it next time you go out riding.
__________________
"Hard Work Often Pays Off After Time, but Laziness Always Pays Off Now."

Big Apple Tag-o-Rama Maps: Click Here!
wiseblood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 12:07 PM   #352
HarveyMushman
commutingmysentence
 
HarveyMushman's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: Virginia, USA
Oddometer: 16,149
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeCeeGS View Post
That's how it looks on TV, anyways. It's almost a "mini(me)highside".
Garry McCoy (and others) used to chop the throttle to intentionally highside half-way through a chicane, to get the bike to change direction faster.

These guys operate at a level far beyond the experience of a street rider, or Keith Code graduate, or even club racer.
__________________
Tim

photo galleries
HarveyMushman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 12:11 PM   #353
Pantah
Red Sox Nation
 
Pantah's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: India Wharf
Oddometer: 9,949
Yeah I noticed that during his drives he's often in a 3 inch power wheely with the steering crossed up. I wonder why he does that? It seems like he would upset the bike when he sets it down, but I've never seen so much as a wiggle.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurky-Loo View Post
On exits?

I see Pedrosa with his wheel crossed up after a turn, but that's because once he's upright he's wheelieing and is trying to keep it balanced. See esp. the last turn of Misano this year (during practice, not the race. Thanks Hector!).

Edit: vid of Pedrosa wheelie
__________________
Straight ahead and faster -Bo Weaver 1970
"There I was..." -Griffin Niner Three Hotel
"One day closer to a parade..." Jonny Gomes, spring training 2013
Pantah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 12:12 PM   #354
Lurky-Loo
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Oddometer: 445
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiseblood View Post
Sure, why not?
Because they're already at the edge of traction when they're leaned over and accelerating out of a turn. Countersteering would add unwanted and abrupt additional load on the front. Recent example: when Pedrosa crashed at Phillip Island on the hairpin, he went in too deep and tried to pull it back around (countersteering or not), put too much load on the front and lowsided.

What we do at 40mph to avoid an unseen obstacle in a canyon corner is a whole different deal than what they're doing at 10/10ths on a closed circuit.
Lurky-Loo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 12:26 PM   #355
Crisis management
Latte riders FTW!
 
Crisis management's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: New Zealand
Oddometer: 1,386
I'm with Wiseblood on this, small countersteering movements are the only way to get a controlled change in direction, the wheelie occurs after the more upright transition (or at the same time) but after the steering input as the power is applied. I don't see another way of changing the stance or direction of the bike precisely and quickly, we all do this on every corner.
Don't forget we are talking about a degree or two of steering input, not the shit load required to shove a Goldwing onto it's side, I wouldn't expect it to be visible unless a real slow motion recording can be studied.




I'm off to demonstrate my expertise to other road users on the R80........ stand by for tank slappers!
__________________
Orange...cause it makes me look like I know what I'm doing!
Crisis management is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 12:29 PM   #356
Lurky-Loo
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Oddometer: 445
This is why countersteering is a time-tested and reliable thread-hijack. Someone says "try it", making it sound like it's something you have to consciously and deliberately do, and then the definition changes to mean it's simply what you do to keep a two-wheeled vehicle balanced, the latter definition I agree with.
Lurky-Loo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 12:43 PM   #357
mdubya
Right Brigade
 
mdubya's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: western, MD
Oddometer: 7,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarveyMushman View Post
Garry McCoy (and others) used to chop the throttle to intentionally highside half-way through a chicane, to get the bike to change direction faster.

These guys operate at a level far beyond the experience of a street rider, or Keith Code graduate, or even club racer.
You got that right. The fact that we are debating the benefits and drawbacks of hanging off and whether or not counter steering works speaks volumes.
__________________
+0
mdubya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 12:45 PM   #358
wiseblood
Hall Monitor
 
wiseblood's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: New York City
Oddometer: 11,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurky-Loo View Post
This is why countersteering is a time-tested and reliable thread-hijack. Someone says "try it", making it sound like it's something you have to consciously and deliberately do, and then the definition changes to mean it's simply what you do to keep a two-wheeled vehicle balanced, the latter definition I agree with.

No, it's not something you "consciously and deliberately do" most of the time. Certainly not at legal road speeds. However, if you do it "consciously and deliberately" you will see that it does exactly what you would expect it to do, and promptly.

At very high track speed (and with clip-ons, as opposed to bars) it does take a considerable effort to turn a bike. Not something you wouldn't notice.

Is it "simply what you do to keep a two-wheeled vehicle balanced" ? No. It's actually the opposite. You countersteer to UN-balance a motorcycle.

Geeze... are we really debating the reality of COUNTERSTEERING in the MotoGP thread? Harley thread opens tomorrow. Have fun.
__________________
"Hard Work Often Pays Off After Time, but Laziness Always Pays Off Now."

Big Apple Tag-o-Rama Maps: Click Here!
wiseblood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 12:47 PM   #359
wiseblood
Hall Monitor
 
wiseblood's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: New York City
Oddometer: 11,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantah View Post
Yeah I noticed that during his drives he's often in a 3 inch power wheely with the steering crossed up. I wonder why he does that? It seems like he would upset the bike when he sets it down, but I've never seen so much as a wiggle.
Oh, it DOES wiggle. Plenty of videos -- high motion videos, too -- of the tires deforming and the bars snapping forward when the bike lands.
__________________
"Hard Work Often Pays Off After Time, but Laziness Always Pays Off Now."

Big Apple Tag-o-Rama Maps: Click Here!
wiseblood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 12:49 PM   #360
Lurky-Loo
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Oddometer: 445
http://www.roadrunner.travel/magazin...r-2002/page/97
Quote:
... while [Schwantz] did use counter steering to initiate the corner, from that point on he used as little upper body input as he could. Instead, he relied on weighting the inside footpeg and using his outside thigh to pull the fuel tank (located above the center of mass) to the inside of the turn and finish the steering input. As a result his arms could stay more relaxed on the bars and the bike more stable.
So, no, a successful GP rider is not countersteering deliberately after turn-in.
Lurky-Loo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 06:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014