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Old 11-12-2012, 03:43 AM   #1
davemon OP
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Regular without ethanol

Heres the question. Would it be better to run a regular grade gas without ethanol or a higher octane grade with ethanol ? The R1100 RS seems to perform OK on the regular but I haven't used enough to get a reading on the plugs. The regular without ethanol is available locally so its still ethanol mixes away from home. I use a fuel addative thats supposed to keep the system in shape but am curious which makes the most sense or if its even an issue?

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Old 11-12-2012, 12:49 PM   #2
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No Ethanol is best, especially for a little bit older bike.
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:37 PM   #3
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I'd say it depends on what octane your bike is designed to run on. It it needs a higher octane, then use that, regardless of ethanol content. However, if it does fine on the lower octane mix then non-ethanol is the way to go.
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:39 PM   #4
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I asked my buddy, who is the most knowledgable bike guy that I know, about this when I bought an 81 Gold Wing this year. His advice was to run ethanol-free premium rather than regular with ethanol.
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:28 PM   #5
dirtyron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigIron View Post
I asked my buddy, who is the most knowledgable bike guy that I know, about this when I bought an 81 Gold Wing this year. His advice was to run ethanol-free premium rather than regular with ethanol.
your buddy is correct. octane is octane no matter how its derived. and ethanol sucks.....always. and...if you are going to put your bike away for the winter, fill it with ethanol free if possible , with a stabilizer.
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:45 PM   #6
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There is a good chance that the up to 10% ethanol fuel does not have any ethanol in it because of the lack of corn in the mid west. A friend who works for a fuel distributor in Atlanta says that they are not getting any ethanol to blend. It would be interesting to get an ethanol test kit to check the content. Also the ethanol tax credit has expired.
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:48 PM   #7
caryder
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Fuel without ethanol has more energy in it by volume. Higher octane fuels simply have a slower burn rate. If the engine pings on lower octane fuel, the engine loses efficiency and is mechanically hard on parts. So ethanol or not, if the engine needs higher octane to avoid detonation or preignition it needs higher octane.

That said, you should always use the lowest octane fuel that your engine runs efficiently on.

So if the engine runs well on regular fuel and it's ethanol free, that's the best of both worlds. If it needs higher octane, but that fuel has ethanol, all you lose is a little energy content and fuel cost, but at least your taking care of the engine.


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Old 11-13-2012, 12:07 PM   #8
truck6driver
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How about run the straight gas and add Octane booster if needed? No ethanol and Octane to stop the detonation.

And for those of us that are stuck having to buy the "SHIT GAS" and have older machines (mine is 30 years old) The local lawnmower shop has ethanol remover than you can add to the tank when you fill it up.

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Old 11-13-2012, 12:21 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by truck6driver View Post
How about run the straight gas and add Octane booster if needed? No ethanol and Octane to stop the detonation.

And for those of us that are stuck having to buy the "SHIT GAS" and have older machines (mine is 30 years old) The local lawnmower shop has ethanol remover than you can add to the tank when you fill it up.

Ray
Would like to know more but first guess is I doubt it "removes". One way to remove it is to add water. The alcohol combines with the water and can be pumped out. Of course this has drawbacks and you need to be cautious with your fuel handling but adding water will separate the ethanol from the gas.
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Old 11-13-2012, 01:25 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by EZman671 View Post
Would like to know more but first guess is I doubt it "removes". One way to remove it is to add water. The alcohol combines with the water and can be pumped out. Of course this has drawbacks and you need to be cautious with your fuel handling but adding water will separate the ethanol from the gas.

Uses an enzyme to break down the natural properties of ethanol.


Here is something to add to the EPA Bull. Now remember when reading this that most of our fuel tanks are 3 gallons or less.



Tuesday, November 13, 2012 12:27 PM


November 13, 2012
Dear Friend,
Thank you for contacting me about the Environmental Protection Agency's (EPA) minimum gasoline purchase requirement. I greatly appreciate hearing from you on this important issue.
On June 15, 2012, the EPA approved the Misfueling Mitigation Plan, the final step before E15 could be sold by gas stations for vehicles made after 2001. E15 is a fuel comprised of 15 percent ethanol and 85 percent unleaded gasoline. The EPA is concerned with cases of E15 and E10 being dispensed from the same hose. In these instances, EPA is requiring that at least four gallons of fuels be purchased to prevent vehicles and engines with smaller fuel tanks from being exposed to gasoline-ethanol blended fuels containing greater than 10% ethanol.
While I support the development of advanced renewable fuels, this recent announcement by EPA is evidence that we need to consider whether changes to the ethanol mandate are needed. Rest assured, I will keep your thoughts in mind as the Senate considers legislation relating to the ethanol mandate.


Again, thank you for contacting my office. It is truly an honor to represent North Carolina in the United States Senate, and I hope you will not hesitate to contact me in the future should you have any further questions or concerns. If you would like to stay informed on my work in the Senate, you can sign up for my e-newsletter, follow me on Twitter at @SenatorHagan, or visit my Facebook page.
Sincerely,

Kay R. Hagan
Please do not reply to this email. Instead, if you have further questions, please visit

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Old 11-15-2012, 05:21 PM   #11
Evenflo76
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2 things about ethanol

1: It reduces actual octane, in the same way 2 stroke oil does.

2: It can cause oxidation.

Gasoline is diluted with ethanol in it, thus reducing octane. Compensate by stepping up a grade in octane.

A higher octane will resist pre-ignition and detonation, as well as increase the life of the fuel. This is better for the motor in the long run.

As far as oxidation goes, the fuel can not sit as long. This requires not allowing the fuel to sit.

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Old 11-15-2012, 09:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caryder View Post
Fuel without ethanol has more energy in it by volume. Higher octane fuels simply have a slower burn rate. If the engine pings on lower octane fuel, the engine loses efficiency and is mechanically hard on parts. So ethanol or not, if the engine needs higher octane to avoid detonation or preignition it needs higher octane.

That said, you should always use the lowest octane fuel that your engine runs efficiently on.

So if the engine runs well on regular fuel and it's ethanol free, that's the best of both worlds. If it needs higher octane, but that fuel has ethanol, all you lose is a little energy content and fuel cost, but at least your taking care of the engine.


Chuck
Tho is exactly correct. The only real drawback of ethanol is lower fuel economy because it takes more volume to get the same energy as regular gasoline produces. I've heard all of the different accusations against ethanol and poor fuel economy is the only proven fact that I've seen everything else seems to be isolated cases or possibly miss use of the fuel.
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:33 PM   #13
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The corrosion is due to the nature of ethanol to attract moisture. That is why it is used as a water remover in fuels. Stored gasoline that is "enriched" with ethanol will collect moisture at the bottom of the tank as gasoline is lighter that ethanol.

The fact that it attracts moisture is why they cannot add it in the gasoline pipeline. The pipe line seperates the different grades of fuel with a "Water Plug" (which they remove at the terminal in seperation tanks). Ethanol in the pipe line with disrupt the seperation precess resulting in the loss of fuel during transit in the line.

Pulled from this source: http://www.calgasoline.com/facttopten.htm







Top Ten Facts about Ethanol
  1. Ethanol dissolves oxide scale from the walls of pipes and tanks, subjecting the systems to internal corrosion, which leads to leaks
  2. Ethanol is listed as a known human carcinogen by the International Agency for Research on Cancer.







  3. The cost of Reformulated Gasoline with ethanol will increase 3-6 cents per gallons compared to RFG with MTBE.







  4. Spills of pure ethanol or gasoline containing ethanol from leaking storage tanks can create a benzene plume up to 150% larger than a spill from a non-ethanol fuel.







  5. Ethanol cannot be shipped by pipeline because of its high affinity for water posing significant distribution costs and hurdles for gasoline blenders.







  6. According to a study by Cornell University, for every gallon of ethanol produced, 1.4 gallons of energy is consumed in the process, compared to 0.15 gallons used in the manufacture of gasoline.







  7. It takes 1.5 gallons of ethanol (E-85) to drive as many miles as one gallon of gasoline.







  8. Every gallon of ethanol removes 53 cents from the Federal Highway Trust Fund because of a special tax break for producers.







  9. Ethanol increases the vapor pressure of gasoline by 1 psi. resulting in higher evaporative emissions of Volatile Organic Compounds, while tailpipe emissions of Acetaldehyde increase 150%.





  10. Ethanol permeates the hoses and lines of automobile fuel systems resulting in a 50% increase in VOC emissions for pre 1995 cars.
In short The cons of ethanol out weigh the pros. It is politics folks 100% nothing more.

Ray
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:48 PM   #14
BkerChuck
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Friend of mine who restore Indians here in PA showed me an article in an American Motorcyclist Association magazine printed way back in the 1940's that decried the use of Ethanol in gasoline. Government has known for almost 80 years that this crap does nothing good for an internal combustion engine. If you can still get Ethanol free gas where you live by all means use it!
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:46 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by truck6driver View Post
  1. Ethanol is listed as a known human carcinogen by the International Agency for Research on Cancer.


huh?
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