ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Beasts
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-16-2012, 06:41 AM   #46
amk
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Oddometer: 444
I have checked global web sites for all 4 jap manufacturers, the conclusion is the european "true adventure" bike market is not much different from amerika. Currently, only Yamaha has there something unavailable in amerika: TDM and Tenere 660. All other "what we all like to have" are available only as used, no matter what condition they are. And there is no a slightest hint this would change in near future. Seems like marketing totally inappropriate for off pavement riding nc700 and cb500 as "adventure" becomes a tendency. And adventure riding transforms into in town hooliganism of teen school students. Choices still exist, but not from japan.
amk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 07:22 AM   #47
Kennon
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Kennon's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Location: Oxford, Cambridgeshire, NT Hong Kong
Oddometer: 272
its all aimed at new riders and the european market the CBR500R will be more powerful in non-european countries as they won't have the same restictive license rules which i've managed to by-pass by doing my license last june thank goodness for that. so i believe the CB500X and CB500F will probably be more powerful aswell i'm guessing just ECU management to make the differences for different markets.

Kennon
Kennon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 07:29 AM   #48
Pecha72
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Oddometer: 2,692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryphon12 View Post
Are the Honda Africa Twin or Kawasaki KLE500 still available new in Europe? I understand both were good bikes, and should still be available used. Are they all beat up or are some available in reasonable condition?
Africa Twin was discontinued almost 10 years ago, can't remember about KLE500, but I think it's history, too. I've owned 5 AT's in the past, great bikes in their own time, and in a way they still are, but these days they're old, most are quite high mileage, and IMO overpriced.

Pecha72 screwed with this post 11-16-2012 at 07:57 AM
Pecha72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 08:36 AM   #49
TeepS
Full Circle Rider
 
TeepS's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Location: Torrance, CA
Oddometer: 320
I saw this bike the other day, in the lobby, at Honda Headquarters in Torrance.
(static display, sitting on the bike was forbidden)

First glance; IMO, this bike is about as much adventure, as a Honda CRv.

I'm guessing after a couple grand of suspension, and wheel upgrades, it might be as capable as my Ulysses. Which is still not much.
TeepS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 09:20 AM   #50
Gryphon12
Studly Adventurer
 
Gryphon12's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Carnation, WA USA
Oddometer: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugz View Post
Ah, I see.

I never rode with the KTM 690ies. Though when I'm thinking about a bike which would fit your specifications the duke 690 wouln't be close to it. Obv you can make it work, but there are a lot bikes more practical, economical and more relieable. I think these new 500's would fit your bill really well.

The KTM 690 is a relative hardcore streetbike (not as hardcore as true supermoto's) but really it's meant for spirited backroad riding. KTM released the Duke 690 to offer a bike a 'littke ' less hardcore compared to the SMC's. Duke 690 would be best for the street and city riding. Doesn't mean there arn't better alternatives IMO.

Another bike which I think you would really like is the tiger 800 or a street triple? A lot more expensive compared to these new 500's but more high-end. Could upgrade suspension as well for it.

Just my .02 GL with the search!
This discussion has wandered a bit off of the original topic - sorry. Thanks for the background on the KTM's. It's always good to know how the home market is using them. And I love the Triumph triples - both are on my list.
__________________
1990 Honda NT-650 Hawk-GT

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world;
indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead
Gryphon12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 10:11 AM   #51
RaY YreKa
I Am the Mayor
 
RaY YreKa's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: YreKa BaKery
Oddometer: 15,954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryphon12 View Post
We really need an XTZ1200 Super Tenere in a 750cc size and 100 lbs. less weight (a modern Africa Twin).
Yamaha recently showed their 750cc-900cc triple engine, which will power a range of bikes. They'll target the Tiger 800s, I'm sure.
__________________
IBA #40578

shine on, you crazy emo diamond
RaY YreKa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 10:14 AM   #52
RaY YreKa
I Am the Mayor
 
RaY YreKa's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: YreKa BaKery
Oddometer: 15,954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kennon View Post
its all aimed at new riders and the european market the CBR500R will be more powerful in non-european countries as they won't have the same restictive license rules which i've managed to by-pass by doing my license last june thank goodness for that. so i believe the CB500X and CB500F will probably be more powerful aswell i'm guessing just ECU management to make the differences for different markets.

Kennon
For older bikers on a tight budget (me), I do hope the 500X can get the 54bhp USA version. MCN are estimating £5000 or thereabouts, which is £2000 less than a decently equipped DL650 or Versys.

Tempting, for many, on price alone; especially when Honda are claiming 76mpg, 260-miles to reserve.
__________________
IBA #40578

shine on, you crazy emo diamond
RaY YreKa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 10:54 AM   #53
Maxacceleration
What now
 
Maxacceleration's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: Wa
Oddometer: 1,802
Honda missed this. Just slightly longer forks & a 19", just a slightly longer shock for increased travel on the X, and ba dah boom, winner!
The X still looks good, and should perform well, but it could be better.
I'm sure the 17" wheels transition well though through the curves.
I would like to see how the motor compares to a Ninja 500 (EX), a gem of a motor IMO.
I would like to wring the shit out of the new X.



IMO the new F700GS from Germany is the current middleweight bike to compare with, weight, power etc.
I don't think Honda can compete with it or sell enough to even try...

And I don't think a transverse four is a viable option for an adv style bike.
The parallel to me is the most compact design...
__________________
Horsepower is a distant second to useable torque, unless cafe cruising is the reason for the purchase...
Quote:
Originally Posted by DireWolf
Sounds dangerous.

Maxacceleration screwed with this post 11-16-2012 at 06:18 PM
Maxacceleration is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 10:59 AM   #54
RaY YreKa
I Am the Mayor
 
RaY YreKa's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: YreKa BaKery
Oddometer: 15,954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxacceleration View Post
Honda missed this. Just slightly longer forks & a 19", just a slightly longer shock for increased travel on the X, and ba dah boom, winner!
The X still looks good, and should perform well, but it could be better.
I'm sure the 17" wheels transition well though through the curves.
I would like to see how the motor compares to a Ninja 500 (EX), a gem of a motor IMO.
I would like to wring the shit out of the new X.



IMO the new F700GS from Germany is the current middleweight bike to compare with, weight, power etc.
I don't think Honda can compete with it or sell enough to even try...

And I don't think a transverse four is a viable option for an adv style bike.
The parallel to me is the most compaction design...
Honestly, most euro riders think this bike is a dog, and it has a terrible rep for build quality. I wouldn't touch one with a 10-foot pole.
__________________
IBA #40578

shine on, you crazy emo diamond
RaY YreKa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 11:07 AM   #55
DiabloADV
Semi-Occasional
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Location: Nor Cal, USA
Oddometer: 2,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckracer View Post
Seems like they'll be competing with one another on the showroom floor, almost guaranteeing the Dealer is gonna get stuck with something.

I wouldn't be a Honda dealer for anything these days.
A $2k difference is a lot of money to some people.
__________________
1974 R90/6 w/1050 kit. Motor only. Seeking a frame.
1970 R60/5
1981 R80G/S Renovation under way. For sale Spring '14
'91 Bill Holland Steel w/Dura Ace

'01 Z3 3.0 Coupe. The Clownshoe.
DiabloADV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 12:17 PM   #56
Gryphon12
Studly Adventurer
 
Gryphon12's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Carnation, WA USA
Oddometer: 954
If I understand the development history, the KLE500 was originally designed for the Asian markets, then exported to the EU, Australia and maybe even South America (?). It didn't do well against the XT Yamahas or the Africa Twin Hondas, but it was cheap and easy to modify (as noted above).

The F700GS is a great attempt from BMW, but it is too expensive to compete even in its own market, and with crimped cartridges, actively discourages the one improvement it really needs to the front suspension (and which should be included from the factory for free, given the very high asking price).

IF Honda would really (really) try to update and replace the Africa Twin, nothing could touch them. It will never happed, however, as the BMW GS1200 sells too well, making the remaining market too small with too few buyers willing to spend what a new AT would cost. The same arguement probably applies for my dream of a new XTZ750, too.

The new Yamaha triples will be awesome, and I'm waiting with baited breath - for street bikes, especially a SPORT-tourer. Like the Tiger 800, with width and torque curves aren't as good as a P2 or V2 design for a real AT replacement. A smaller XTZ1200 would leverage Yamaha's investment in this design (motor and chassis). I'm still puzzled as to why Yamaha hasn't put the 1200 motor in another chassis to spread the smiles and their development costs. I saw a photoshop TRX concept that was just plain cool. The new triples probably make that idea obsolete, however.
__________________
1990 Honda NT-650 Hawk-GT

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world;
indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead
Gryphon12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 02:27 PM   #57
eakins
Butler Maps
 
eakins's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2002
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
Oddometer: 16,700
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaY YreKa View Post
Honestly, most euro riders think this bike is a dog, and it has a terrible rep for build quality. I wouldn't touch one with a 10-foot pole.
That may be true but Honda could take this new motor (same concept as KLE, 500 twin) and build a bike similar in concept. Weber used that same 500 motor in their rally twins http://www.rallytwin.com/
__________________
Butler Maps - motorcycle maps for riders by riders -
Alaska
, IDBDR this summer! , COBDR info, AZBDR - now shipping!
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=598717
Facebook - please come follow us:
https://www.facebook.com/butlermaps
eakins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 07:23 PM   #58
surly357
Cochetopa dreamin'
 
surly357's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: Colorado
Oddometer: 531
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeepS View Post
..... IMO, this bike is about as much adventure, as a Honda CRv.....

IMHO, If you can't find adventure in places accessible to a Honda CRV it speaks more to a lack of imagination in trip planning than it does to vehicle limitation...
surly357 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 07:34 PM   #59
Süsser Tod
Studly Adventurer
 
Süsser Tod's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Location: Mexico City, Mexico
Oddometer: 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by surly357 View Post
IMHO, If you can't find adventure in places accessible to a Honda CRV it speaks more to a lack of imagination in trip planning than it does to vehicle limitation...
I think his point is loud and clear, don't try to pretend you didn't understand what he meant.

This is just a streetbike with an upright riding position, nothing more. Everything on it is "wrong" for a bike that is meant to go off road, because, it isn't meant to. That was his point, there is nothing "ADV" about this bike. Sure, you can have an adventure on any motorcycle, just like you can drive a nail with a stone, that doesn't mean the CX500 is an Adventure bike or that a stone is a hammer.
Süsser Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 08:40 PM   #60
Motard_Menace
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Motard_Menace's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Phoenix
Oddometer: 284
The bottom line is that this bike was built for a specific market segment and its intended purpose will most likely hit the spot intended, which isn't racing it in the Dakar rally. Although it would be really cool for Honda or someone to build a bike out of the crate ready for Dakar at $5K, it's not going to happen no matter how much people on forums bitch about it, just missing the mark. It is a $5K bike that will most likely pack more of a punch for the money then has ever been sold before. For those who haven't noticed SUV's have sold really well and the moto manufactures are trying to capitalize on a similar concept that is currently happening with motorcycles which is a wanna be adventure bike. The cool thing is that with some time and a bit of money you can turn an SUV into an actual off-road machine just like you can do with these quasi-adventure bikes with some creativity and a little cash. I've said it before and I'll say it again we live in a great time for motorcycles, tons of choices and at affordable prices too......enjoy this bike for what it's worth folks!
__________________
2007 Triumph Tiger 1050


"If you Can't Fix it with a Hammer, it must be an Electrical Problem......"
Motard_Menace is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 07:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014