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Old 11-17-2012, 09:33 AM   #61
amk
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SUVs are popular for their comfort and inner volume. How a typical good american of 250 pounds might be squeezed into a Civic? Into a GMC Yukon without a problem. And it still will drive to a place where no Civic would dare to.

Wanna be adventure bikes, which are considered as motorcycle SUVs, are V Stroms and Versys, at least they have some ground clearance, more than a sport bike suspension travel, and relaxed knee angle.

Could anybody tell how CB500 might be adopted to an adventure riding, if adventure implies off pavement riding now and again?

BTW, I have nothing against the bike itself, nice college commuter, belongs to road bikes.

If Guzzi called V7 Classic a V7 X Classic, would it belong to beasts then?

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Old 11-17-2012, 09:35 AM   #62
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Eh? ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Süsser Tod View Post
....... there is nothing "ADV" about this bike. Sure, you can have an adventure on any motorcycle, just like you can drive a nail with a stone, that doesn't mean the CX500 is an Adventure bike or that a stone is a hammer.
how can you or anyone else on this site decide what an Adventure bike is...

you can say: that's a trail bike... that's a street bike... that's a dual purpose bike... but

Adventure is a state of mind... unless you're in my head, you don't know if I'm experiencing an adventure or not, no matter what I'm riding.



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Old 11-17-2012, 09:56 AM   #63
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Do we have to go down this road? Adventure Politics - who gives a shit.
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Old 11-17-2012, 02:34 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XZed View Post
how can you or anyone else on this site decide what an Adventure bike is...
you can say: that's a trail bike... that's a street bike... that's a dual purpose bike... but
Adventure is a state of mind... unless you're in my head, you don't know if I'm experiencing an adventure or not, no matter what I'm riding.
.
I belong to a local dual sport club, they are motocross riders really, normal bike is a 300CC KTM 2 smoke. Good luck to anyone that goes on a ride with them even on a KLR.
I have a XR400 Honda that I rarely use, it is basically brand new 2004 bike. I have a DR650 that I have put 16,000 Km on but I perfer the Honda Varadero that I own. I am 56 years old, I am past the motocross stage by a long shot.
The attraction, to me, is a lighter bike, that I sit up streight on, that has some weather protection, that has a lot of after market support, that has a larger tank(longer range), burns regular gas, that has a smooth motor, liquid cooled is best, twin in line cylinders are best, can do highway and gravel roads, I want to do my own repairs, cheap to purchase new perferable, EFI is best, NOT A BMW(been there and FD broke), I do not plan to change suspension, would like to be able to add TKC80 type tires if I desire, I want aluminum panners and for sure a back rack(aftermarket), don't really care about ABS, nice to have a centre stand, tubless tires are good, I want chain final drive, I do not need to do 80 MPH all day long, electric start, want to be able to do 800 mile days for 3-4 days in a row and still feel more or less alive, do not want a ultra hopped up more or less race motor that would cost a fortune to rebuild(CRF450Xtype bike), cheap to insure(not so expensive that I need full coverage ins.), start every time and need next to no repairs for a long time, enough juice to power an electric vest and heated grips, good enough seat stock for some comfort, and good gas mileage.
I think the Honda NC700X and this CB500X both fit this list rather nicely. I have a feeling that I may dispose of the DR650 to get one of these bikes. If I want to do offroad the XR400R will do that and it is street legal so I can get to the ride on it if necessary but I have a trailer.
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Old 11-17-2012, 03:28 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmieA View Post
The attraction, to me, is a lighter bike, that I sit up streight on, that has some weather protection, that has a lot of after market support, that has a larger tank(longer range), burns regular gas, that has a smooth motor, liquid cooled is best, twin in line cylinders are best, can do highway and gravel roads,

I want to do my own repairs, cheap to purchase new perferable, EFI is best, NOT A BMW(been there and FD broke), I do not plan to change suspension, would like to be able to add TKC80 type tires if I desire, I want aluminum panners and for sure a back rack(aftermarket), don't really care about ABS, nice to have a centre stand, tubless tires are good, I want chain final drive, I do not need to do 80 MPH all day long, electric start, want to be able to do 800 mile days for 3-4 days in a row and still feel more or less alive, do not want a ultra hopped up more or less race motor that would cost a fortune to rebuild(CRF450Xtype bike), cheap to insure(not so expensive that I need full coverage ins.), start every time and need next to no repairs for a long time, enough juice to power an electric vest and heated grips, good enough seat stock for some comfort, and good gas mileage. I think the Honda NC700X and this CB500X both fit this list rather nicely. .
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Old 11-17-2012, 07:02 PM   #66
Ham
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Nice job JimmieA. These oneupsmanship wannebees regarding adventure riding become a real bore after a while. The 19/17...21/19 tire folks become tiresome. My Dakar supposedly has the cat's meow of wheel set ups vs my Guzzi but my Guzzi is WAY more ridable in virtually anything....go figure. Now knobbys vs street tires can be a concern but that is easy to remedy mostly. Otherwise I have to say you hit it on the head.

The problem is we have a lot of motocross wannabees who think they are adventure riders and just don't get it...and never will. Its a Literacy problem.
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Old 11-17-2012, 07:39 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaY YreKa View Post
Honestly, most euro riders think this bike is a dog, and it has a terrible rep for build quality. I wouldn't touch one with a 10-foot pole.
No worries, and not to bash any manufacturer, let alone Kawasaki. Kawasaki builds, mmmm how should I put this, low-budget bikes, but the price is always right. Take what I or someone pay for a particular Kawasaki model and compare that with an Italian or German product cost. I'm totally satisfied, and even with spending funds to upgrade. Entry admission fees are a bargain!

For me the KLR (any version) won't cut it. I had a KLX-650C back in the mid-90's and thought it was a hoot. Don't know what it is but, maybe something to do with KL-250 experience back in the 80's when I worked for Kawasaki of Denver. I wish I still had the KLX-650C, but it seemed to disappear in Huntsville, AL.
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:00 AM   #68
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I think it'd make a great chick adv bike for some sub 5'4"-120lb gal, especially if she was touring with her SO on a full or mid size ADV tourer, and the guy was carrying most of the heavy gear. A short/light gal would probably do better with a 430lb twin w/a 17" front and low seat height off road than she would with any other adv bike that had reasonable road manners. Plus it'd be way better on the tarmac than most lighter/low slung dirt road capable rides. It could probably cruise at 120kph all day. Light gal with light loads don't need as much travel or clearance as big guys with a butt load of gear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaY YreKa View Post
Yamaha recently showed their 750cc-900cc triple engine, which will power a range of bikes. They'll target the Tiger 800s, I'm sure.
Yamaha, seems our only hope. They are they only JP mfgr that seems to have any real understanding of the TRUE ADV market. While the proliferation of new "standard " or UJM motos has been encouraging only Yamaha seems concerned with what advRiders really want. If Yamy builds a mid weight triple with tubeless tires and good travel/GC, I will come.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryphon12 View Post
the KLE500 was originally designed for the Asian markets, then exported to the EU, Australia and maybe even South America (?)...
Yeah, you see a few of them running around S Am, but not too many.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryphon12 View Post
IF Honda would really (really) try to update and replace the Africa Twin, nothing could touch them. It will never happen...the market [is] too small with too few buyers willing to spend what a new AT would cost.
If they could offer an modern Africa Twin that came in competitively priced w/a strom 650, it'd really put a dent in the vstrom's popularity. I fear the nx700 is the indication of what Honda perceived the adv market to be, kinda like some sort of fantasy ADV market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryphon12 View Post
The new Yamaha triples will be awesome, and I'm waiting with baited breath...Like the Tiger 800, with width and torque curves aren't as good as a P2 or V2 design for a real AT replacement. A smaller XTZ1200 would leverage Yamaha's investment in this design....
Yeah, Yamaha seems like our only chance for a real ADV touring mid weight from a JP manufacturer.
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Old 11-18-2012, 06:59 AM   #69
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A "chick bike"???

Grow up...




And to those who think this bike wouldn't go off road, I'd bet the farm that you're wrong. No, you won't do tabletops or jumps, but motoring around in bad places? Hell yes. When I was a kid I beat the crap out of a KZ400 off road and could hold my own against Honda Elsinores (for the most part!) in the mountains.
And then I had a Honda CB350 twin that I put dualsport tires on... took that thing into some really rough places too.

This new Honda will have similar limitations off road, but those limits aren't going to be as bad as some here seem to think. Decent tires and the right rider.....
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:25 AM   #70
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I guess my feeling is that everything is life is a compromise. No bike can do everything. It can't do slab all day well and than do single track like a motocross bike, carry a months worth of camping gear and be a MX bike as well.

I did the TransLab Highway in my Honda Varadero. This was before the road was complete and there were long patches of deep gravel and rocks. I had white nuckles for a couple hundred Kms. The rest of the 2500 Kms were great. I guy I know did it at the same time on a KTM 690, he loved the couple hundred Kms of deep rock but I will bet I enjoyed the other 2500 Kms a hell of a lot more than he did. He actually trailered his bike to the start of the TLH highway and home again (Michigan). It was a compromise, great offroad bike on the road vs. a great on road bike on the barely road.

The way I see it no one goes dancing in work boots, they aren't made for that. If you want to jog cowboy boots are bad for jogging. We expect a motorcycle to be a highway touring bike and a dirt bike, ain't going to happen!
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:14 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlySniper View Post
This new Honda will have similar limitations off road, but those limits aren't going to be as bad as some here seem to think. Decent tires and the right rider.....
For me, this bike looks just about as capable in the dirt as a Bandit, for example. On the other hand, many streetbikes can actually ride quite well outside the tarmac, long as it´s not real off-road. Maybe this bike is one of them (but I don´t think anyone outside Honda has the answer to that just yet... you´ll need to know, how does its suspension work, can the engine pull in low rpm, are its wheels made out of cheese, etc).
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Old 11-18-2012, 06:32 PM   #72
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I just can't seem to stay away from this thread.

I like the concept of the X, it's something I've given some thought to... turning my Ninja 500 into an dirtish bike. But the pissing contest that has erupted over this bike is laughable, so many unfounded assumptions, strange opinions and just downright hostility towards a bike that none of us have so much as thrown a leg over!

And saying how un-offroadable this bike must be due to it's short travel and 17" tires while holding 9000lb behemoths up as supremely offroadable and the pinnacle of the manly ADV market! In my mind, the weight of a bike is more of a problem off road. Mud, slick rock, steep hills, roots and tight trails; weight works against you over time. It's physically demanding. A lighter bike can be more easily manuvered around, takes less momentum to climb hills and is more manageable in mud.

I'm telling you, I had my old CB350 in places most would fear to take their GS's. And it was a low bike, only had 18" wheels and little travel.

I'm not saying the X would be great off road, but I am saying it can probably handle it just fine IF the rider picks good lines and watches the ground clearance. Things like steering angle, clutch action and brakes are going to define how offroadable it really is. I trust Honda, they have some of the best engineers on the planet... I'm looking forward to seeing how well they have done with all flavors of the 500.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:56 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlySniper View Post
And saying how un-offroadable this bike must be due to it's short travel and 17" tires while holding 9000lb behemoths up as supremely offroadable and the pinnacle of the manly ADV market! In my mind, the weight of a bike is more of a problem off road. Mud, slick rock, steep hills, roots and tight trails; weight works against you over time. It's physically demanding. A lighter bike can be more easily manuvered around, takes less momentum to climb hills and is more manageable in mud.
I do agree on the weight thing. BTW, what is the weight of this new CB500X?

At least the NC700X is a bit on the heavy side, though not as heavy as few +1000cc monsters, that some people still seem very happy to take to a swamp, then brag about how capable the bikes are... for me, real “off-road” is 125-400cc, and dry weight is a bit more than 100 kilograms max. Makes a world of difference in mud, or deep sand, or anywhere, where the surface does not offer good traction.

But you gotta keep in mind, for most people “adventure” is not the same as off-road, it is often about going the distance, too, offering good space and ergonomics, and carrying lots of stuff (sometimes 2 people and their luggage) while doing it. That´s when any real off-road machine will suffer.

So a compromise between these two demands will be the best solution for many people. Is it good, that most of the new offerings seem to be targeted more towards the street, than any real off-road? That´s up to the buyers to decide.
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:44 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pecha72 View Post
Africa Twin was discontinued almost 10 years ago, can't remember about KLE500, but I think it's history, too. I've owned 5 AT's in the past, great bikes in their own time, and in a way they still are, but these days they're old, most are quite high mileage, and IMO overpriced.
Finland prices are not even close to reality. In your country all bikes priced 2X of price in Germany/France/Benelux due to high taxes. Same goes for Norway, Denmark, Israel etc. etc.
This is strict specifics of market.
Rest - I agree with,but have to admit that I am not fan of ATs or TAs. I'd prefer Dominator 650 as one-up do-it-all.

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Old 11-18-2012, 11:57 PM   #75
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Taxes or not, the AT seems to keep its value "too good" for me more or less all over Europe. For a bike, that's latest major makeover has taken place in 1993! But don't get me wrong, I still love the AT, and I know people still do big trips on them. These days I prefer fuel injection and a couple other features I get on newer bikes, but that does not mean the AT is not a very good bike, even though it is gaining age. I know some people prefer carbs, for example.
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