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Old 11-19-2012, 07:42 AM   #76
Mobiker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pecha72 View Post
I do agree on the weight thing. BTW, what is the weight of this new CB500X?

At least the NC700X is a bit on the heavy side, though not as heavy as few +1000cc monsters, that some people still seem very happy to take to a swamp, then brag about how capable the bikes are... for me, real “off-road” is 125-400cc, and dry weight is a bit more than 100 kilograms max. Makes a world of difference in mud, or deep sand, or anywhere, where the surface does not offer good traction.

But you gotta keep in mind, for most people “adventure” is not the same as off-road, it is often about going the distance, too, offering good space and ergonomics, and carrying lots of stuff (sometimes 2 people and their luggage) while doing it. That´s when any real off-road machine will suffer.

So a compromise between these two demands will be the best solution for many people. Is it good, that most of the new offerings seem to be targeted more towards the street, than any real off-road? That´s up to the buyers to decide.
Honda claims 430 lbs fueled up ready to go. This is KLR650 and G650gs territory. Its not an off road bike by any stretch, but I'm thinking it could be very good backroad, poor pavement, gravel road bike, which is what I want.
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:52 PM   #77
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Comparing the 700X to the 500X...

Fork travel: 700's 6.0" to the 500's 5.5" (advertised long stroke lol)
Rear suspension: 700's 5.9" to the 500's 4.7"
Wheelbase: The 700's 60.6" to the 500's 55.9"
Fuel: The 700's 3.7 gal to the 500's 4.5 gal
Seat height: The 700's 32.7" to the 500's 31.9"
Wet wet (mfg spec): 700 - 472 lbs, 500 - 430 lbs
Same size wheels for each: 17" - 120/70 & 160/60, same as the old F4 CBR600 wheels.
Finding good dual sport tires will be tough. (Pirelli MT-60 gets my vote)
I have not looked for hp & torque specs... anyone? And at what rpms?

Still, I like this bike. It will be a good regional tourer if some solid mount panniers become available. Throw over saddlebags will suck...
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:32 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by FlySniper View Post
I trust Honda

There's your problem right in front of you...

The C(hick)B(ike)500 - a budget bike built to a price point by the same company that doesn't care if they sell you a motorcycle or a civic.
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:33 PM   #79
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Let me be the bearer of bad tidings ADV masses. Just as we make mockery of all the Harley poseurs, we can now start making mockery of ourselves. This bike is in a very large part about the ADV image. With a little extra suspension travel and ground clearance and the facsimilie of a bash plate, it does have limited adventure qualities, but true hard core adventure riders weren't their target market. Poseurs and those who understand the bikes ADV limitations are the target market. I think Honda knocked it out of the park with this bike. Entry level riders, riders on a budget and riders who don't need to feed their ego with their bike's CCs with find great favor with this very practical real world machine. If it's priced right it will sell quite well. If they offer ABS here, it will be my next bike. I'll see all you true adventure riders at the next ADV gathering where we can pose together.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:05 PM   #80
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JimmieA- great post in that it is bringing out some interesting comments and opinions. One of the things we all like to do is think of the "ideal" dualsport. Of course that means different things to different people. Like many of you I have been biking for almost forty years and am coming around full circle to the less is more philosophy. (I went from a 650cc dualsport to a 250cc, and in the spring will go from an 1800cc street bike to a 800cc). My reasons for that are more to do with weight of bikes and what I need them to do for me as opposed to my "wants". It is amazing how many people will regard my WR250R and then ask me when I am going to trade up to a bigger bike. They just don't get it and I would be wasting my time trying to explain it to them. I salute any manufacturer who tries to bring a bike to market in this environment. The market for the product will decide if the model survives.
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:52 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by Maxacceleration View Post
I have not looked for hp & torque specs... anyone? And at what rpms?.
i read a review in some euro magazine of the versys,650 wee and the 700. The 700 has nice low torque but that's it, the other 2 leave it in the dust after the midrange. The 500 obviously even less. They LOOK like nice bikes, seems a shame honda doesn't deliver at least one version with actual performance beyond stellar fuel economy but such is honda.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:07 AM   #82
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Missing the Point, AGAIN!

I actually came in at midnight from a gunnery range and fired up my computer so that I could see the new Honda's.

I think there is a whole lot of point missing going on around here. Honda is a very big company with big resources. Honda is still a business,

Unfortunately it isn't the 70's where showrooms are packed with new models of all kinds. I remember going into a showroom and seeing MR's, CR's, SL's, XL's and all sorts of other bikes. That's not the case today. Why? Because the market simply doesn't support it.

Honda is a BUSINESS. It's main goal is to build what sells. It costs money to import a new bike and there needs to be some expectation that the cost will be recovered. The only way the cost is recovered? Is by selling bikes.

Anyone remember all the buzz around the Super Tenere? well, in pretty big part of the country there are leftover Super 10's. The dealer that my son goes to sold one at cost and the other it sold to another dealer in hopes they could move it. Another dealer nearby has one leftover marked down 3K.

NC 700's on the other hand are moving off showroom floors. I looked at one yesterday as it's one of the bikes my son is considering trading his V-Star 650 on. The same dealer who basically gave away his Super 10's has sold every NC 700 he can get his hands on.

Honda is making a bold shift to world market, shared technology products that provide a level of competence and reliability....at a price point. Sound familiar? It should. it's the model that made Honda in the 70's.

So back to the CB 500X. It's sound basic transportation that isn't locked into any one basic mold. It's not really a sport bike and it's not really and adventure bike. It's a bike that can probably do a whole bunch of things well enough be fun.

It's also the kind of bike that may/will lure new riders to the sport. That's probably the most important part. sales equals revenue. Revenue equals a little freedom of maneuver. It's easier to fund developing a cool new real adventure bike when the coffers are full with revenue from CB500X's and NC 700's.

It may actually be refreshing to walk into a dealer and see more than one row of sport bikes and one row of cruisers and not much else.

On a side note? That really cool CB 1100 that some many people said they would buy if Honda imported it? Wanna bet it dies off after two model years? We NEVER buy what we beg for in sufficient enough numbers to support bringing them here.....case in point, Super 10.

By the way. I didn't trade my GSX on a Vee to go off roading. I traded because I wanted something less effected by road quality that could go down 3 miles of dirt or gravel road I encounter fairly regularly on my rides. Since then I've found myself actually planning rides that end up going down dirt and gravel roads to see things my GSX wouldn't have taken me to see.

It still isn't a dirt bike. and on some level I'm betting 90% of adventure ikes get used the same way.....so getting all worked up because Honda calls the NC or CB an Adventure bike? Is silly. It will be a fine adventure bike to lots of people. And hopefully enough people to finance some other cool bikes.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:32 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlySniper View Post
A "chick bike"???

Grow up...


And to those who think this bike wouldn't go off road, I'd bet the farm that you're wrong. No, you won't do tabletops or jumps, but motoring around in bad places? Hell yes. When I was a kid I beat the crap out of a KZ400 off road and could hold my own against Honda Elsinores (for the most part!) in the mountains.
And then I had a Honda CB350 twin that I put dualsport tires on... took that thing into some really rough places too.

This new Honda will have similar limitations off road, but those limits aren't going to be as bad as some here seem to think. Decent tires and the right rider.....
Lighten up ....

This is an internet forum, not the Economist. I suppose an 80cc mx'er has got to be called a youth motorcycle instead of "kids bike" too, eh?

My point was pretty much the same as yours, that it'll be a fine adv bike if you take into account its limitations. Most upright geometry street bikes will handle quite rough terrain, but your speed cannot be nearly as high. That much said, if the rider & gear is light, that can make a big difference as well. For a 105 to 135lbs "person", that bike would probably do as well as any vStrom with 200lb rider. The 2" less travel and 17" front won't be as much an impediment for a lighter rider w/less gear.

Sorry that my informal language offended you.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:28 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert110411 View Post
I actually came in at midnight from a gunnery range and fired up my computer so that I could see the new Honda's.

I think there is a whole lot of point missing going on around here. Honda is a very big company with big resources. Honda is still a business,

Unfortunately it isn't the 70's where showrooms are packed with new models of all kinds. I remember going into a showroom and seeing MR's, CR's, SL's, XL's and all sorts of other bikes. That's not the case today. Why? Because the market simply doesn't support it.

Honda is a BUSINESS. It's main goal is to build what sells. It costs money to import a new bike and there needs to be some expectation that the cost will be recovered. The only way the cost is recovered? Is by selling bikes.

Anyone remember all the buzz around the Super Tenere? well, in pretty big part of the country there are leftover Super 10's. The dealer that my son goes to sold one at cost and the other it sold to another dealer in hopes they could move it. Another dealer nearby has one leftover marked down 3K.

NC 700's on the other hand are moving off showroom floors. I looked at one yesterday as it's one of the bikes my son is considering trading his V-Star 650 on. The same dealer who basically gave away his Super 10's has sold every NC 700 he can get his hands on.

Honda is making a bold shift to world market, shared technology products that provide a level of competence and reliability....at a price point. Sound familiar? It should. it's the model that made Honda in the 70's.

So back to the CB 500X. It's sound basic transportation that isn't locked into any one basic mold. It's not really a sport bike and it's not really and adventure bike. It's a bike that can probably do a whole bunch of things well enough be fun.

It's also the kind of bike that may/will lure new riders to the sport. That's probably the most important part. sales equals revenue. Revenue equals a little freedom of maneuver. It's easier to fund developing a cool new real adventure bike when the coffers are full with revenue from CB500X's and NC 700's.

It may actually be refreshing to walk into a dealer and see more than one row of sport bikes and one row of cruisers and not much else.

On a side note? That really cool CB 1100 that some many people said they would buy if Honda imported it? Wanna bet it dies off after two model years? We NEVER buy what we beg for in sufficient enough numbers to support bringing them here.....case in point, Super 10.

By the way. I didn't trade my GSX on a Vee to go off roading. I traded because I wanted something less effected by road quality that could go down 3 miles of dirt or gravel road I encounter fairly regularly on my rides. Since then I've found myself actually planning rides that end up going down dirt and gravel roads to see things my GSX wouldn't have taken me to see.

It still isn't a dirt bike. and on some level I'm betting 90% of adventure ikes get used the same way.....so getting all worked up because Honda calls the NC or CB an Adventure bike? Is silly. It will be a fine adventure bike to lots of people. And hopefully enough people to finance some other cool bikes.
Very good post
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Old 11-20-2012, 04:59 PM   #85
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Very good post

Yes it was!
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:55 AM   #86
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MCN (UK) says the 500s looked very good in person, especially considering the price point.

The rumour is £4000 in the UK, which is frankly astonishing if true, as a Ninja 250 will set you back £4299.
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Old 11-21-2012, 12:18 PM   #87
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Rev limit

Anyone know what the rev limit is on the CB500X? I rode a NC700 and the gas mileage was great (72mpg with WFO) but passing as a chore with hitting the rev limiter just when it was waking up.

Maybe I am being like Goldilocks - The CBR250 is too small (but I want one) and my 929Fireblade is too big for my commute. I like a standard or a sportbike so the "Adventure" bike seems to be the new "standard" moniker. Marketing...

If you know the rev limit, thanks for your help!
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Old 11-21-2012, 01:20 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Gryphon12 View Post
[*]We really need an XTZ1200 Super Tenere in a 750cc size and 100 lbs. less weight (a modern Africa Twin).
You took the words right out of my mouth. Precisely what I'm looking for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glasswave View Post
Yamaha, seems our only hope. They are they only JP mfgr that seems to have any real understanding of the TRUE ADV market. While the proliferation of new "standard " or UJM motos has been encouraging only Yamaha seems concerned with what advRiders really want. If Yamy builds a mid weight triple with tubeless tires and good travel/GC, I will come.

If they could offer an modern Africa Twin that came in competitively priced w/a strom 650, it'd really put a dent in the vstrom's popularity.

Yeah, Yamaha seems like our only chance for a real ADV touring mid weight from a JP manufacturer.
The other thing that Yamaha did right with the Tenere is putting the 270 deg crank in their parallel twin. It seems like Honda and Kawi don't get that buzzy parallel twins with 360 or worse 180 degree cranks are not pleasing to ride. There is a reason why people like V-twins.

I am excited to see more interest and offerings like the CB500X, I just hope they give some attention to the factors that separate a really fun and interesting bike with one that is just Ho-Hum to ride. It doesn't mean it needs big power, but it needs good feel with power/torque in the right places. It needs decent suspension, brakes, and handling. And it needs to have some attractive styling (Kawasaki are you listening???).

I honestly think Triumph could produce an even smaller 675 sized Tiger (and hopefully commensurately lighter) that could be successful. Put that puppy smack in the face of the Vstrom 650 and Versys 650.
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Old 11-21-2012, 02:01 PM   #89
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^ " I honestly think Triumph could produce an even smaller 675 sized Tiger (and hopefully commensurately lighter) that could be successful. Put that puppy smack in the face of the Vstrom 650 and Versys 650."

+1 on that and I would not be surprised to see Triumph do it in the near future.
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Old 11-21-2012, 03:13 PM   #90
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Every once in awhile I have to stop and pinch myself when I read some of the comments about the NC700X....I am left wondering if some people who say they have rode one really did.

Now a guy riding a FIrehawk929....I can understand if he thinks passing with the NC700 is slow...but you should take that in considerations when you test rode.

Vibration....what vibration...I found the S10 was way rougher all around, however I understand that engine gets smoother with time.

If there is anything that stands out about the NC 700 it is its smoothness, its quietness, its low COG, its total lack of any vibration. Even the Honda owner told me to be careful not to test ride it first as it will totally spoil me for just how smooth a bike should run. He was dead on.

I found it plenty fast, but then again, I understand it isn't a sport bike or a 1200 zipper, its a 700 tuned for torque.

It just seems to me people trying to criticize it are really reaching. It shows me Honda has again made something people just haven't experienced before...a paradigm shift for previous motorcycle riders, but not newbies.
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