ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Road warriors
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-26-2012, 02:36 PM   #76
rocker59
diplomatico di moto
 
rocker59's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: The Trans-Mississippi
Oddometer: 15,437
Quote:
Originally Posted by wannaklr View Post
I almost added "and will sell for 2/3rds that price in 6 months".

I think MSRP will be around $19,000.
If they price the Cal 14 more than the Road King in the USA market, they're nuts...
__________________
Rocker59 (aka guzzimike), Aux Arcs (NW Arkansas)
Moto Guzzi: LeMans 1000 CI, Sport 1100, V11 LeMans Nero Corsa
IBA #24873, MGNOC #21347
“Just keep playing, no matter how weird it gets.”
rocker59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 02:48 PM   #77
Lobby
Viel Spass, Vato!
 
Lobby's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: San Antonio, Tx
Oddometer: 27,474
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
If they price the Cal 14 more than the Road King in the USA market, they're nuts...



It needs to be way less than an equivalent RK, else folks won't buy.

Oh, and because MG USA is probably reading this thread: "bring some demo bikes to Daytona Bike Week!"

Triumph stopped their demo fleet a few years ago. Too bad, as I'd love to have test ridden the bikes. I won't buy one without a test ride.

And don't ask me to go to a dealer for one, either.
__________________
Gracie's Gold
Lobby is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 02:52 PM   #78
rocker59
diplomatico di moto
 
rocker59's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: The Trans-Mississippi
Oddometer: 15,437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobby View Post


It needs to be way less than an equivalent RK, else folks won't buy.

Oh, and because MG USA is probably reading this thread: "bring some demo bikes to Daytona Bike Week!"

Triumph stopped their demo fleet a few years ago. Too bad, as I'd love to have test ridden the bikes. I won't buy one without a test ride.

And don't ask me to go to a dealer for one, either.
Yeah. The RK is a known quantity. Even if a newcomer is equal in every measurable way, buyers will want a financial reason to try the unknown.
__________________
Rocker59 (aka guzzimike), Aux Arcs (NW Arkansas)
Moto Guzzi: LeMans 1000 CI, Sport 1100, V11 LeMans Nero Corsa
IBA #24873, MGNOC #21347
“Just keep playing, no matter how weird it gets.”
rocker59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 02:53 PM   #79
rocker59
diplomatico di moto
 
rocker59's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: The Trans-Mississippi
Oddometer: 15,437
The only smart thing I've seen with Guzzi pricing in my memory is the lowering of the Griso SE pricepoint to $12,490.

That price really stimulated sales of that model.

However, Guzzi has a history of overpricing its bikes in the USA market.
__________________
Rocker59 (aka guzzimike), Aux Arcs (NW Arkansas)
Moto Guzzi: LeMans 1000 CI, Sport 1100, V11 LeMans Nero Corsa
IBA #24873, MGNOC #21347
“Just keep playing, no matter how weird it gets.”
rocker59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 04:00 PM   #80
Unleaded
Unit Train
 
Unleaded's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2003
Location: Hellinois
Oddometer: 726
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
I'll save judgement on "presence' until I see a pic of those bikes side-by-side.
Good luck with that. I'm on record saying I love the looks of the 14, but Im afraid pics are the only place you'll see them 'side by side' in the real world....unless the Guzzi is priced much less.

Which was my point.
__________________
www.thehurricanedeck.com
Unleaded is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 04:40 PM   #81
rocker59
diplomatico di moto
 
rocker59's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: The Trans-Mississippi
Oddometer: 15,437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unleaded View Post
Good luck with that. I'm on record saying I love the looks of the 14, but Im afraid pics are the only place you'll see them 'side by side' in the real world....unless the Guzzi is priced much less.

Which was my point.
Relatively speaking, that is true of any Guzzi.

In the USA, no one model is sold in quantities of more than a few hundred units per year. Many models are more like 50 or 100 units per year.

Guzzi's best selling line in the USA right now is the V7 Classic/Racer. How many of those have you seen on the road?

Since Guzzi's worldwide production is under 10,000 annual units, even a bike that sells in the hundreds can be considered a success for them.

I predict that this bike will be a big success for Guzzi. That won't change the fact that Guzzi will still not be on the radars of most OEMs and most buyers.
__________________
Rocker59 (aka guzzimike), Aux Arcs (NW Arkansas)
Moto Guzzi: LeMans 1000 CI, Sport 1100, V11 LeMans Nero Corsa
IBA #24873, MGNOC #21347
“Just keep playing, no matter how weird it gets.”
rocker59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 04:53 PM   #82
Unleaded
Unit Train
 
Unleaded's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2003
Location: Hellinois
Oddometer: 726
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
Relatively speaking, that is true of any Guzzi.

In the USA, no one model is sold in quantities of more than a few hundred units per year. Many models are more like 50 or 100 units per year.

Guzzi's best selling line in the USA right now is the V7 Classic/Racer. How many of those have you seen on the road?

Since Guzzi's worldwide production is under 10,000 annual units, even a bike that sells in the hundreds can be considered a success for them.

I predict that this bike will be a big success for Guzzi. That won't change the fact that Guzzi will still not be on the radars of most OEMs and most buyers.


Agreed. All good points. I really hope Guzzi does well with this bike too. I think the overall bike will surpass most current in-class offerings in handling and power, and Guzzi has credibility in the heritage and class arena that the Japanese competition could never enjoy.

I'm a huge Euro-bike fan, and seeing Guzzi succeed in the US with more future models (and dealers) would really be exciting.
__________________
www.thehurricanedeck.com
Unleaded is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 06:29 PM   #83
Lobby
Viel Spass, Vato!
 
Lobby's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: San Antonio, Tx
Oddometer: 27,474
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
Since Guzzi's worldwide production is under 10,000 annual units, even a bike that sells in the hundreds can be considered a success for them.

I predict that this bike will be a big success for Guzzi. That won't change the fact that Guzzi will still not be on the radars of most OEMs and most buyers.
Piaggio didn't buy MG to sell 10k bikes a year. They'd be poor businessmen if they weren't thinking 100k bikes a year.

And 5x - 10x more dealers.

And a better parts distribution network.

etc, etc, etc.


I hope they have the balls for this.
__________________
Gracie's Gold
Lobby is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 08:42 PM   #84
rocker59
diplomatico di moto
 
rocker59's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: The Trans-Mississippi
Oddometer: 15,437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobby View Post
Piaggio didn't buy MG to sell 10k bikes a year. They'd be poor businessmen if they weren't thinking 100k bikes a year.

And 5x - 10x more dealers.

And a better parts distribution network.

etc, etc, etc.


I hope they have the balls for this.
Technically speaking, Piaggio didn't buy Guzzi...

In 2004, Piaggio bought Aprilia in order to own their main scooter competition...

Aprilia just happened to have owned Guzzi since 1999...

Guzzi was a byproduct of the Piaggio/Aprilia deal...

Guzzi's highest production years were in the early 1970s. 50,000 units +/-...

100,000 units would require a new, or additional, factory and a whole lotta other peripheral improvements.

I think they'd be happy with a steady 10,000 units, at a profit, for awhile...

Piaggio is just now, over the past couple years, figuring out what to do with Guzzi. The v7 Classic, the Stelvio, the 8v engines. Now the Cal 14.

Guzzi is pretty healthy right now, thanks to Piaggio. And, I'd imagine thier goals are a little more down to earth than 100,000 units.
__________________
Rocker59 (aka guzzimike), Aux Arcs (NW Arkansas)
Moto Guzzi: LeMans 1000 CI, Sport 1100, V11 LeMans Nero Corsa
IBA #24873, MGNOC #21347
“Just keep playing, no matter how weird it gets.”
rocker59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 08:59 PM   #85
Lobby
Viel Spass, Vato!
 
Lobby's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: San Antonio, Tx
Oddometer: 27,474
Nope. I don't buy it.

As backup to my argument are the Stevio NTX and the California 1400

These machines were quite obviously designed with significant market research done beforehand. Both machines appear to perfectly fit the market segments they were targeting. This doesn't happen by accident. Somebody was thinking ahead.

Perhaps Piaggio doesn't have the growth plans for MG in mind that they should, but you can guarantee the big boys at MG are holding some ballsy biz plans on their back pockets.

They're waiting for the customer and magazine reviews to come in so they can ramp up production. If they're not, they are crappy businessmen who deserve to run the company into the ground.

(Hey MG. how am I doing?).

__________________
Gracie's Gold
Lobby is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 09:13 PM   #86
rocker59
diplomatico di moto
 
rocker59's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: The Trans-Mississippi
Oddometer: 15,437
The Stelvio is closely related to the Breva/Norge/Griso family. It was a natural, and smart, off shoot of that platform.

The California 1400 is basically all-new and incorporates some things that are new for Guzzi. It represents a huge investment on Piaggio's part, and is proof that they do not intend to see Guzzi languish.
__________________
Rocker59 (aka guzzimike), Aux Arcs (NW Arkansas)
Moto Guzzi: LeMans 1000 CI, Sport 1100, V11 LeMans Nero Corsa
IBA #24873, MGNOC #21347
“Just keep playing, no matter how weird it gets.”
rocker59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 07:50 AM   #87
Josephvman
I'm the Decider
 
Josephvman's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2002
Location: Houston, TX
Oddometer: 3,430
Do you really think anybody who is considering a Road King would even have the Guzzi on their radar? I don't Harley guys even look at other bikes. To the average rider a cruiser style bike appeals to, the HD is the de facto "I've arrived" brand, and most everything else is painted with the "why that, couldn't you afford a Harley" brush.

I'm not a cruiser guy, but I like the California a lot. Still, there are very few manufacturers that can push $20k for a bike and sell it in any decent numbers, and Guzzi isn't one of them. Hopefully they'll offer a more stripped down model in the low teens to get some bikes out on the road and build some model recognition that pays off with sales of the more expensive dresser models. At $20k these bikes are going to depreciate like car keys falling out of an airplane...


Quote:
Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
If they price the Cal 14 more than the Road King in the USA market, they're nuts...
__________________
'11 Ducati Multistrada 1200S Sport "Stormtrooper II"
'09 BMW HP2 Sport
'98 Ducati 900SS Final Edition "The old whore"
'93 Ducati 900SS "Slightly older whore"
"Gentlemen. You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
Josephvman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 08:05 AM   #88
studad
Studly Adventurer
 
studad's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Willow Springs, MO
Oddometer: 790
I've got a Road King in the garage right now, sharing space with my Sportster. And I've got to say the Guzzi is definitely on my radar. I'd like to have a bike that may split the size difference between my two bikes, freeing up some space and cash to take on another bike. I had been looking at a Breva to replace the Sportster, but this new California might just be the one.
studad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 08:06 AM   #89
Josephvman
I'm the Decider
 
Josephvman's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2002
Location: Houston, TX
Oddometer: 3,430
More dealers isn't the answer, but better dealers and new dealers who actually get it is a step in the right direction. Unfortunately struggling, smaller volume manufacturers are often more interested in selling and shipping bikes to dealers than actual retail sales to buyers. It's far easier for a manufacturer to double the size of the dealer network and dump another 30-40 bikes a year on each new dealer than to grow the retail business to customers, but this is a short-term strategy that usually has poor long-term consequences. If you had three Guzzi dealers within a hundred miles of each other it's a virtual guarantee that between them they'll sell about the same number of bikes as one good dealer, and the margins on the bikes the three dealers sold would be terrible. Terrible margins mean dealers try to switch customers to something that makes them more money, and that they can't/won't afford to stock parts, accessories, and adequately train service people on the brand. Guzzi is never going to be BMW, or even Triumph, and most importantly for their success is to have dedicated dealers who can make money selling their motorcycles, not by sticking 2-3 Guzzi dealers in every large market.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobby View Post
Piaggio didn't buy MG to sell 10k bikes a year. They'd be poor businessmen if they weren't thinking 100k bikes a year.

And 5x - 10x more dealers.

And a better parts distribution network.

etc, etc, etc.


I hope they have the balls for this.
__________________
'11 Ducati Multistrada 1200S Sport "Stormtrooper II"
'09 BMW HP2 Sport
'98 Ducati 900SS Final Edition "The old whore"
'93 Ducati 900SS "Slightly older whore"
"Gentlemen. You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
Josephvman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 09:46 AM   #90
Lobby
Viel Spass, Vato!
 
Lobby's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: San Antonio, Tx
Oddometer: 27,474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josephvman View Post
Do you really think anybody who is considering a Road King would even have the Guzzi on their radar?




HD sells about 200k bikes a year. I suspect all MG wants is to penetrate the cruiser market in the U.S. to the tune of about 500 bikes.

Therefore statistics is on their side: there's certainly enough motorcycle buyers who will look at this bike to entice MG into making / importing it.
__________________
Gracie's Gold
Lobby is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 07:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014