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Old 11-19-2012, 02:47 PM   #16
burmbuster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cug View Post
I never found that the Tenere feels top heavy. For sure, it feels a bit heavier when getting on / off, and a lot heavier when moving around with muscle power, but top heavy is not an attribute I have seen on the Yamaha.

The Tenere also has better suspension out of the box, so depending on skills or recklessness (90%), road quality (5%), weight (3% while moving), power (1%), tires (1%), this might or might not be true.

The Tenere is the more "forgettable" in a good sense. Once moving, the weight shouldn't be an issue as long as you're on pavement, it has a suspension that lets you think about other things than crappy suspension, it has a shaft which lets you forget about chain maintenance, it has a pretty damn good track record for reliability.

I guess it's the perfect bike for people who like a Honda Accord or the good old Honda Africa Twin - these things are pretty much unbreakable even with complete service neglect. They are also a little boring as there isn't really one thing that stands out on these vehicles. Personally, I like that.
For me, the Tiger feels like it has a lower center of gravity. Thats where I get the top heavy feel. Maybe I used the wrong description. Lets just say that the Tenere feels a lot "taller" to me. Very stable and well balanced but I never got the feeling of just "sinking into the bike" as it were. Its very well balanced though.
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:21 PM   #17
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For me, the Tiger feels like it has a lower center of gravity.
Interesting. It might be just the overall much lower weight, but it's also possible that the heavier triple engine pushes weight a little lower.

Though I also never had the feeling that the Tiger had a particularly low CoG. What I really want in a dual sport is a V-Twin. Like the old 600cc from the TransAlp. Completely rock solid engine, enough power (50HP - okay, let's get 70 out of this plant), smooth, insane reliability, very narrow engine, tank can be really low around it.

Personally I think a V-Twin is the best dual sport engine. All these parallel twins and the triples are wider and make the front end uncomfortably wide. Yeah, it's possible to deal with it, but why? What's the benefit of a parallel twin over a V-Twin? Cheaper?

Okay, rant over. Sorry for the interruption, please continue with the normal program ...
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:55 AM   #18
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I have owned both and the Tiger is no longer in my stable. The Tiger is a very good road bike that you can take off road. Off road it never felt right, I always felt like it was going to break! The Tenere is a 575 lb enduro that excels off road. As others have mentioned it's size is a bit intimidating at first and picking it up can be a chore. The good news is the more experience you have on the S10 pig, your skills improve and the amount of time spent picking it up becomes a non issue. For me it boils down to learning to trust this big bike's capabilities and going with it.!
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:35 AM   #19
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Mass is measure of inertia. No matter what you say guys, both S10 (more) and Tiger 800 (less) can twist themselves into knot on first considerable "off". If you would have had chance to see what happens when both KTM LC4 and S10 and some other bike of that "category" fly into same trap it would shake your confidence. While (otherwise less desirable) LC4 comes out with few scratches - the "500 lbs" category bikes come out with bent frames and forks and smashed stuff. No matter how you engineer it. It is physics. Statement about "feeling Tiger will break something" - come on it's not better or worse than S10 or GS or etc. etc. in "breaking something".
Whole comparison between S10 and Tiger 800 is a bit "off" if you ask me. They are different bikes for similar purposes.
They both will do just fine in what they meant for. They will s...ck in what they not meant for.

Damn, comparing to one of my past bikes (DR800) both are damn fragile pointless horsepower exercises and posers with no offroad abilities - so can run comparisons to no end with no much point.

Ride it, chose what you like more. Period.
I myself did not got convinced or moved by S10 in any way. Does it matter? Totally not - above posters felt otherwise. People are different.
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:41 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by wolftrax View Post
As others have mentioned it's size is a bit intimidating at first and picking it up can be a chore. The good news is the more experience you have on the S10 pig, your skills improve and the amount of time spent picking it up becomes a non issue
Sounds like my life with my previous KLR's
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Old 11-21-2012, 05:19 PM   #21
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Please feel free to correct me, but wasn't the start to the whole multi-cylinder adventure bike segment the Paris-Dakar Rally? There was a multi-cylinder class. I'm no racing expert or Dakar expert - I'm just trying to recall the history. BMW had an R1100GS PD, didn't they? And this race spawned the KTM 950 Adventure. Was the first Honda Africa Twin developed before or after the early PD races?

In any event, the PD Rally is an open desert, long distance endurance race. I don't believe that there were any tight woods segments, or significant water / mud sections, although I could be wrong. We are now, years later, asking multi-cylinder ADV bikes to perform well over a much wider range of terrain and weather. It's no wonder that the offerings and our satisfaction with them is such a rich topic of conversation.

P.S. Wasn't the PD Rally also the driver for development of the Suzuki DR-Big series (DR-750, DR-800) in the large displacement thumper class? Then the KTM 640 ADV in the 650cc class? And now a new Honda in the new 450cc class? Too bad international politics keep getting in the way of that race!
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Old 11-22-2012, 03:21 AM   #22
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Honda AT and Supertenere (original one) were answer to early PD races that were won by BMW twins with scaring consistency. In fact Honda that raced in PD had almost nothing in common with AT750 and very little in common with AT650, the first one. AT750 does not carry one single part copying PD bike. Even frame different. It is pure marketing.
Yamaha Supertenere 750 have VERY little in common with PD Supertenere. Very little. I once (together with friend who are S10 fan) made lists of what is shared between PD S10 and "civilian" S10. That was funny....very little indeed.
DR Big was developed in 1987 as answer to multi PD racers with attempt to match raw power it had to compete against.
Surprisingly, probably because of tight budget and bikes built not by something like HRC but by Gaston Rahier own shop they share lots with civilian version 750 (and consequentially 800). So - DR Big stock closest to DR Zeta PD bike mechanically. Just for info - KTM was almost non-existent in PD at time it all started.
You are totally spot on about all this deal. Those are all open piste bikes, not meant to be taken into any at all technical stuff. People still do it, but it is like trying to hit small nail with sledgehammer. Pointless really. But I see many folks getting fun from lifting heavy bikes and crawling through tight terrain that any light enduro would simply fly through.
I use gym for heavy lifting and my tiger only for open piste.
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Old 11-22-2012, 03:46 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by bluesman View Post
.
I use gym for heavy lifting .
I use Gym and S10. Me Tarzan.
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Old 11-22-2012, 05:14 AM   #24
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You Aussies always have your own way!
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Old 11-22-2012, 08:04 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryphon12 View Post
Please feel free to correct me, but wasn't the start to the whole multi-cylinder adventure bike segment the Paris-Dakar Rally? There was a multi-cylinder class. I'm no racing expert or Dakar expert - I'm just trying to recall the history. BMW had an R1100GS PD, didn't they? And this race spawned the KTM 950 Adventure. Was the first Honda Africa Twin developed before or after the early PD races?

In any event, the PD Rally is an open desert, long distance endurance race. I don't believe that there were any tight woods segments, or significant water / mud sections, although I could be wrong. We are now, years later, asking multi-cylinder ADV bikes to perform well over a much wider range of terrain and weather. It's no wonder that the offerings and our satisfaction with them is such a rich topic of conversation.

P.S. Wasn't the PD Rally also the driver for development of the Suzuki DR-Big series (DR-750, DR-800) in the large displacement thumper class? Then the KTM 640 ADV in the 650cc class? And now a new Honda in the new 450cc class? Too bad international politics keep getting in the way of that race!
This and the post by bluesman are the best I have read regarding the genesis and purpose of "adventure" bikes.

These bikes were (and still are) designed largely for primitive (unpaved and/or poorly maintained) roads, like the Haul Road.

You will never wish you had a heavier bike when riding offroad, and you'll never wish you had a lighter bike when riding down the freeway - so any bike that does both is a compromise.
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Old 11-22-2012, 08:09 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesman View Post
Mass is measure of inertia. No matter what you say guys, both S10 (more) and Tiger 800 (less) can twist themselves into knot on first considerable "off". If you would have had chance to see what happens when both KTM LC4 and S10 and some other bike of that "category" fly into same trap it would shake your confidence. While (otherwise less desirable) LC4 comes out with few scratches - the "500 lbs" category bikes come out with bent frames and forks and smashed stuff. No matter how you engineer it. It is physics. Statement about "feeling Tiger will break something" - come on it's not better or worse than S10 or GS or etc. etc. in "breaking something".
Whole comparison between S10 and Tiger 800 is a bit "off" if you ask me. They are different bikes for similar purposes.
They both will do just fine in what they meant for. They will s...ck in what they not meant for.

Damn, comparing to one of my past bikes (DR800) both are damn fragile pointless horsepower exercises and posers with no offroad abilities - so can run comparisons to no end with no much point.

Ride it, chose what you like more. Period.
I myself did not got convinced or moved by S10 in any way. Does it matter? Totally not - above posters felt otherwise. People are different.
Good post. I agree that the "thought it was going to break" is unfounded.
Ride them both and make a list of the pros and cons. That's what I did.
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Old 11-22-2012, 04:35 PM   #27
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Bluesman - thanks! I know that there are some very serious Dakar wizards out there who would have taken me out to the woodshed. Your kinder approach is much appreciated.
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Old 10-14-2014, 04:27 PM   #28
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Anyone still listening??

I've been reading through this thread and I know that the models have changed a little but, I'm looking at these bikes (800XC and S10) as my next ADV bike. I wanted to see if a thought of mine had any validity. If you take these bikes off road and DO drop them (which in my world is a fact of life since I am a novice) shouldn't "cost of repair" be a factor in deciding? Isn't the Yamaha MUCH cheaper and easier to get parts for? I like the idea of the triumph but I must face the reality that I'm going to break something in the San Juan Mountains. My xr650r does good at being dropped and not breaking but its only 300#.
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Old 10-14-2014, 07:17 PM   #29
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Tiger vs Tenere

Test road a Tiger XC - and ended up getting a S10.
The Tiger is Fun - but what makes for a great test ride also can be considered weaknesses as an all-around bike.
The engine feels great - and is easy to keep in the power band - because the transmission is very close-ratio. And gearing is too low for long cruising (and too high for off road). Easy to change the cogs - but that will push the bike into revving higher on the slab.

I also found the seating position a little cramped - knees bent up a little, and standing position a little awkward due to the tank. I could probably go up on the seat a little (although much higher and I would not be able to flat-foot both feet at stop).

The Tiger would be easier around town - it is lighter and responds quicker to steering input.

The Tenere feels very solid on the road. It handles well, but takes a more deliberate input. I don't have 'all-day' experience with the Tiger, but I would guess the Tenere is more comfortable after 10 hours on the road - due to a lower revving engine, better wind management (I do have an aftermarket screen), better seating position. But I'm sorting out the drive-ability of the S10 (ECU flash, FI adjustments). Then some Tigers have stepper motor issues - both bikes have (small) issues - but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend either. (I think both have improved for 2014).

I only have a few hours on dirt/gravel - but I would guess the Tiger would be more manageable due to the weight difference - although the S10 engine/gearing is more suitable for the dirt. Really depends on rider ability.


If you through cost difference into the mix - the S10 is a better value. Easier to find good deals (I bought my 2012 S10 (15k miles) for $2500 less than a (new 2013) Tiger XC - and it included $1000 in luggage. (And about $6k less than a used 1190R). I'm putting the savings towards a 'real' dirt bike.
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Old 10-23-2014, 07:52 PM   #30
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Anyone still listening?
No...it's a stupid old thread. Why the fuck did you dredge it up again.


Noob has it nailed pretty good here. (kvango, LOL)
Just go ride 'em both if you want a big adventure bike and decide which one fits YOUR style.
I have a XC and love it. Also rode a S10 and it too is a very nice bike. It's just too damn big for me though.
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