Dealing with dealers.....

[Pantah]

The hard way:

1. Dealer cost on the motorcycle is about 85% of MSRP
2. If the bike has been sitting on the floor, their financing costs are piling
3. Select all the accessories you want and assume dealer cost is 70%
4. Total it up and offer the number as a cash offer ready to pick it up today
5. Put it down on paper so they can see exactly what you want and how much

They'll come back with a counter offer. The first thing they'll drop is the dealer prep mark-up and agree to cost on accessories. After that it will be their destination charge. If it's not close than politely walk but make sure they have your contact points. After that it is a matter of how bad you want the bike and gear and who you want to deal with.

The fun way: My favorite thing to do is buying new motorcycles. I like to buy from the dealers I enjoy so my first step is to pick the dealer. I want it to be a fun experience and I want their help going forward, so I never really grind their axles off anymore. I pick my number and they counter. I always get a good transaction.

KTM race shops are a little different. They are small and we really need them after the sale. If I'm buying one of their bikes I never quibble. They typically offer the bike at MSRP, drop dealer prep and destination, and throw in new hand guards, skid plate and a free first tune. It's a good trade. Everybody is happy and they take care of me long after. I think of it like supporting your pro shop.

[B.Curvin]

Originally Posted by markk9

First step is to either have cash in hand or your own financing in place before the purchase. Research what the bike is really worth. I have purchased Kawasaki and Harley-Davidson new in the past and have always followed the 1K under MSPR out the door. The only number you should care about is the OTD price ( the amount you actually pay). How the dealer plays with the numbers is of no concern to me.

Just for clarity, that does NOT include taxes. Correct?

[filmfan]

From the dealer's point of view all deals are cash, it doesn't matter if you come in with a wheelbarrow of bills from your mattress, or a cashiers check from your bank where you just signed up for a loan.

If it's a finance deal, the dealer may be making more money if it's their financing, and because of that may be able to make you a better price on the bike. Whether or not it's a better deal for you depends on the details.

[spafxer]

Originally Posted by TrashCan

Did you not want to pay for extra parts that you wanted???

How did the dealer do you wrong?

Not at all..

Cost of the bike + large tank + hand gaurds + a few other things = $$$ I write one check or how much in cash..

I thought a "shop" worked together to get the sale.. Even though they are different departments, they scratch each other's backs.

[BanjoBoy]

Get Out The Door prices from different dealers, buy cheapest bike. Simple? (Keep'in in mind sales tax & reg if'n yer deal'in with outta state dealers)
Or do like us cheap bastards, and buy used 'n save big.

[markk9]

Originally Posted by B.Curvin

Just for clarity, that does NOT include taxes. Correct?

That number does include the tax.

[outdoornate65]

Isn't tax paid at the DMV?

[markk9]

In NC all the taxes and dmv fees are done at the dealer.

[outdoornate65]

Thanks Mark.

I'll have to look at the p/w from when I bought my Beemer. Can't remember what the rules are here in CO.

[davevv]

I always prefer to negotiate an out the door price with the dealer. It saves some hassle and avoids the potential for misunderstandings. The last bike I bought was from a place that specializes in used Harleys. They were really reluctant to do this, so I ended up negotiating a price for the bike plus TT&L. When I went to sign the papers, I found out why they didn't want to talk OTD price. They had added $300 worth of admin and document fees. I told them that since we hadn't included those in the negotiation, I wouldn't pay them. I put the title to my trade in back in my pocket and picked up my helmet. I was almost out the door when they agreed to drop those fees.

With my favorite dealer, where I've bought two new and one used bike, we have a good enough relationship that he doesn't bullshit me. If I ask the price on a bike he has, he tells me the least he's willing to take OTD. I either accept it or tell him what I'm willing to pay in case he ever gets to the point he's willing to accept that price. The last bike I bought from him was a used Guzzi. I originally thought it was considerably overpriced, told him so and why (politely), and told him I would pay approximately 30% less. Four months later (February) he asked if I still wanted the bike, and sold it to me for exactly what I had offered OTD. No negotiations and no bullshit.

These deals are always cash, though. In over 50 years of riding I have never financed a bike, because I don't believe in financing any item that isn't a necessity. And I don't consider a motorcycle a necessity unless it is my only means of transportation. Otherwise, it falls in the "nice to have, but not actually needed" category. Of course the down side of that philosophy is that I never could afford a brand new bike until five years ago. But I have gone through a lot of used ones. Oddly enough, those new ones are gone and every bike I have now was bought used.

[kadesean]

Try something crazy. Be honest. You'd be surprised at how far it can go.

Tell them you're shopping, they should assume that anyway. Many here will say to just go for the cheapest, but as the old adage goes, 'Price is a poor substitute for value'. There are other factors to consider besides price. Are you treated with respect? Location? Are you interested in supporting that particular business?

[Josephvman]

For some reason motorcycle guys are obsessed with OTD costs, which mean very little when comparing state to state transactions where sales tax, title, and registration fees can vary quite a bit. These are all set costs that have nothing to do with the dealership, and you have to pay regardless.

The variable is really just the price of the bike, and setup or destination fees, if any are charged. Most manufacturers have a standard destination fee, so you need to determine what that is. Setup fees are generally determined by individual dealers, and can vary wildly. Some dealers charge $100-200, which is a reasonable fee in my opinion and covers their actual costs to uncrate, assemble, and road test/setup a bike. Some charge $500, and it's an obvious profit center.

Without getting specific on the bike, it's hard to know what the good "deal" is. A good deal on the new water-cooled BMW GS would be getting one for list price and not having to take a bunch of bundled options and pay a stupid setup fee. A $5,000 discount on a new VFR1200 probably isn't such a good deal, and you can do better. You won't know until you research a specfic model, and can probably find that information a a model-specific forum rather than here.

If you had to quantify it for a new current year motorcycle that's not particularly hard to find, but not considered a distressed model that is deeply discounted, I'd say 15% off, actual destination charges by manufacturer, and a setup fee of $200 or less, is probably a good deal.

Keep in mind, you're not only buying the bike, but you're buying the dealer. I'd rather pay a little more and do business with someone who knows their stuff and will be servicing my bike for me. If your final drive takes a dump a week after the bike is out of warranty, the difference between goodwill and being told to take a hike really comes down to the dealer. If you bought your bike from someone else and expect your servicing dealer to jump through hoops on your behalf then you're fooling yourself.

[klaviator]

Don't worry about dealers fees and all that. The only thing that matters is the OTD price because that is what it will cost you. The idea that cash will get you a better price is a myth. The dealer doesn't care where the money comes from. In some cases a buyer with poor credit will get a better deal because that's the only way the dealer can get him financed.

Price is also not everything. I will buy from a good dealer over one with a bad reputation even if it isn't the lowest price. Some times the lowest price will end up costing you more in the long run depending on the circumstances.

[davevv]

I use the OTD cost to compare to what the bike is worth to me. Am I willing to pay that particular dollar figure to own that bike? I don't care how the charges are listed on the paperwork. And yes, it is hard to compare hard dollar figures between different locations because of the variables in TT&L. Dealers generally are charged a set shipping fee on new bikes, so that doesn't vary.

It's the same as buying a used bike and adding in the extra expenses of the purchase to the price you're going to pay to the owner. In Texas, if I buy a used bike from an individual for $5k, the tax is going to be $312.50. Title transfer and registration is approximately $50. In another state, those costs will vary. Maybe the only things it needs is tires and fluids changed. Add another $300 to $400. That's my OTD on the used bike. The question is whether or not I'm willing to pay $5762.50 to own that particular bike. Just the same as deciding whether or not I'm willing to pay the dealer's OTD price for any given bike, whether new or used.

[dwoodward]

Originally Posted by RedShark

MSRP (which btw IS RETAIL afterfuckingall).

Manufacturer's
Suggested <---
Retail
Price

MSRP is what the manufacturer hopes the machine sells for.

One other thing is the "Extended Warranty" costs the dealership about half what they tell you it costs. It generally does NOT have to be bought at time of new purchase, nor from the dealership you buy the bike from, so you might shop around in advance to see if there's another dealership you can get it from cheaper. (I know one such for a particular brand that will sell them at their cost.)

If the new machine has new technology that's not proven, a reliable FACTORY Extended Warranty (Yamaha Extended Service, etc- third party warranty- RUN AWAY!) can pay for itself with one trip to the shop for, say, a fried ECU, or even something simple, like the two cam chain tensioners my FJR ate through before Yamaha redesigned the part.