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Old 11-30-2012, 12:53 PM   #46
guns_equal_freedom OP
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Originally Posted by DireWolf View Post
Do you make this up as you go?

We never had that excange that I can recall. I mean, I've pointed out your bigoted posts a couple of times in the political rants that you insist on posting in PNW, but I have never asked anything from you. In fact, you generally skulk away with no further comment.

Interesting you want to chat about it now.
Please point out my bigoted posts.
We have been down this road before and you have yet to show these posts.

I stopped doing "political rants" as I was asked by posters here to refrain from doing so, to keep my comments PNW and / or motorcycle based.

When was the last political post I started?

I stop posting because after a while there's nothing more to say.

If I were to continue to post (like this one) it is off topic and as such could either have my comments moved to head explody or have the entire topic moved to the basement.

My questions have not changed, why do you feel the need to troll Washington state related posts and why do you feel the need to troll my posts.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Well, I will ask another question, how come Mr Cob can his rants without you jumping on them. I am pretty sure that me and Mr Cob share a like mind set in the grand scheme of things.
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:02 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by guns_equal_freedom View Post
Please point out my bigoted posts.
You want me to post it *again*?



And if you think I haven't butted heads with Cob over politics, you need to get out of the PNW regional more.
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:18 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by DireWolf View Post
You want me to post it *again*?



And if you think I haven't butted heads with Cob over politics, you need to get out of the PNW regional more.
Tell me how that post is bigoted?
You are applying your own preconceived notions and personal prejudices to my post, nothing more, nothing less.

I have better things to do than waste my time in the basement.

I have yet to see you trolling one of Cob posts here in the PMW forum.

You still have not answered my questions.
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:22 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by wbedient View Post
Also, mountain bikers probably use equipment specific trails a lot more than motorcyclists do.

i.e. a mountain biker spends 90% of his riding on mountain bike trails, and very little time on public dirt roads. We on the other hand get a lot more use out of the dirt roads and we ride trails too. So they've got more to gripe about.

Or we argue too much with each other.
I think we all should take a broader view, because to get what you want perhaps you need to acknowledge others and agree that the legitimate uses need to be served. In other words, are there just two sides- eg motoheads wanting to roost the entire world v Sierra Clubbers wanting to convert the entire world to Wilderness? I think not, we all are between those I think (although I know folks of both extremes).

MTB as a group are sooo successful and sooo into convincing the world of their victim status... Yet new MTB trails open every year! Yep, I and my family ride MTB, have a BOB and go overnight on MTB outings. We also backpack and do the 'flower-sniffer" stuff. And we are 'motorized' everytime we leave Leavenworth to go up in the mountains to go hiking or biking, snomo or Jeep ridin'. As a matter of fact, the most ardent enviro is full-on motorized every time they head out into the mountains. My garage has two motorcycles, three MTBs for me and wife, daughter, a snomo to haul us all, and a large quiver of all types of skis. We pretty much do it all, walkin' and ridin', motor and no motor, sometimes in combination. All to get into the good country. Lots of folks are like us. I think we all should take a broader view, because to get what you want perhaps you need to acknowledge others and agree that the legitimate uses need to be served.

Of the uses mentioned above, which has the largest number of seasonal users yet is scarcely provided for on public lands, and has been increasingly displaced for 25 years? I will let you all ponder and debate that, it is an unrealized situation...

ADVNCW screwed with this post 11-30-2012 at 01:29 PM
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:34 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by ADVNCW View Post
I think we all should take a broader view, because to get what you want perhaps you need to acknowledge others and agree that the legitimate uses need to be served.
Is high-country single track off road motorcycle use legitimate to you?
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:40 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by WB-PDX View Post
I've been waiting for this post for days.

All the bigots that post in the PNW forum will delete posts or sulk away, but never own up to their racism, classism or sexism; nor will they ever apologize for anything but getting caught.

'MERICA!
Really? Nothing better to do than wait for some innernetz rebuttal?

I am a racist married to female from Asia, lower middle class but still a classist, and sexist in every way (go men!!!!). Still upset for my use of the term earned by the gal who ran down the motorcyclist?

Now make sure you go on the survey page and root for the team! Go off road motorcycle usage! I bet you're passionate about that, right?
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:31 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by guns_equal_freedom View Post
Tell me how that post is bigoted?
You are applying your own preconceived notions and personal prejudices to my post, nothing more, nothing less.
Dear lord.

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Old 11-30-2012, 05:08 PM   #53
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Dear lord.

Yep, a snide comment and then a smiley face, I would expect nothing less from you.

You can't even answer my original questions and now you won't answer my other question, so at this point I know I am not going to get any kind of a straight answer from you, so, I am done with this.
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Old 11-30-2012, 05:39 PM   #54
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I am a racist
Correct.
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:48 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shrubitup View Post
Is high-country single track off road motorcycle use legitimate to you?
Yes, that is why I own a motorcycle! Why would you ask that, looking for an enemy? On the OWNF there is enough for all uses, sometimes management is lamo and politicized.

I would pay $50 per year if it went directly to good hardened moto trails and more of them- in the large areas of the Forest set aside for motos. The key is managed- a free-for-all just works against us. But there is enough country to have great singletrack riding trails! Managed is more sustainable against the folks who want Wilderness everywhere except their cul de sac with their 4000 sq ft home and wherever they like to drive their Prius to Starbucks to get some eco-friendly coffee.

The Wildrness is so crowded that the places I went so often 20 years ago are now just full of the Prius drivers. Because of that, I seek and find more soltude sometimes on my motorcycle!
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Old 11-30-2012, 07:33 PM   #56
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Correct.
Alright, thanks.
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Old 11-30-2012, 07:35 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by ADVNCW View Post
Yes, that is why I own a motorcycle! Why would you ask that, looking for an enemy? On the OWNF there is enough for all uses, sometimes management is lamo and politicized.

I would pay $50 per year if it went directly to good hardened moto trails and more of them- in the large areas of the Forest set aside for motos. The key is managed- a free-for-all just works against us. But there is enough country to have great singletrack riding trails! Managed is more sustainable against the folks who want Wilderness everywhere except their cul de sac with their 4000 sq ft home and wherever they like to drive their Prius to Starbucks to get some eco-friendly coffee.

The Wildrness is so crowded that the places I went so often 20 years ago are now just full of the Prius drivers. Because of that, I seek and find more soltude sometimes on my motorcycle!
Good to hear! My confusion led to the question - sorry for that.
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Old 11-30-2012, 08:42 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shrubitup View Post
Good to hear! My confusion led to the question - sorry for that.
Cool. Is it possible to support great large nice high areas that have singletrack motorcycle riding, and also support other areas as Wilderness? I support that. Not everything should be Wilderness, and motors should not be everywhere. I am an advocate for both (and for logging where appropriate, no disturbance elsewhere where appropriate).

But motorcycles on singletrack is legit and needs to be defended and maintained in the areas set aside for that. We could use more moto trails, as well we need more hiking trails and access to/ in Wilderness because of concentration of visiting Prius drivers in certain areas...From what I see, motorcycle riders have much less crowded singletracks than the Wilderness hikers...go to Colchuck Lake in summer if you want to see 100 people from Seattle...Sadly disciples of Harvey Manning want to take Mad Lake etc from motorcycle riding....no way

At least on my home OWNF, all could co-exist with some real management. Citizens should not be divided against each other, the Agencies should manage for all uses- they all will fit well in their places if the extremes do not mess it up. So I guess I encourage motorcycle riders and all other users to think of how all can play instead of excluding some...
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:43 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by ADVNCW View Post
Cool. Is it possible to support great large nice high areas that have singletrack motorcycle riding, and also support other areas as Wilderness? I support that. Not everything should be Wilderness, and motors should not be everywhere. I am an advocate for both (and for logging where appropriate, no disturbance elsewhere where appropriate).

But motorcycles on singletrack is legit and needs to be defended and maintained in the areas set aside for that. We could use more moto trails, as well we need more hiking trails and access to/ in Wilderness because of concentration of visiting Prius drivers in certain areas...From what I see, motorcycle riders have much less crowded singletracks than the Wilderness hikers...go to Colchuck Lake in summer if you want to see 100 people from Seattle...Sadly disciples of Harvey Manning want to take Mad Lake etc from motorcycle riding....no way

At least on my home OWNF, all could co-exist with some real management. Citizens should not be divided against each other, the Agencies should manage for all uses- they all will fit well in their places if the extremes do not mess it up. So I guess I encourage motorcycle riders and all other users to think of how all can play instead of excluding some...
Yes, all good. One Wilderness area i say should be open to ORVs is Wild Sky since it was falsely designated unfortunately. Place is littered with forest road, logging camps, mines, skid roads, logging cables, timber sales, antennae, mining claims, etc. and they still made it Wilderness. Same thing is happening to areas near Oly Natl Forest. I call it a land grab. A buffer to the buffer. Soon that buffer will need another buffer. Too many buffers. Manage existing Wilderness such that the user has to get deep within rather than simply cross a magical line that somehow provides serenity whereas other side of the line in the sand is viewed as unfit for their recreation experience.
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Old 12-01-2012, 05:39 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by shrubitup View Post
Yes, all good. One Wilderness area i say should be open to ORVs is Wild Sky since it was falsely designated unfortunately. Place is littered with forest road, logging camps, mines, skid roads, logging cables, timber sales, antennae, mining claims, etc. and they still made it Wilderness. Same thing is happening to areas near Oly Natl Forest. I call it a land grab. A buffer to the buffer. Soon that buffer will need another buffer. Too many buffers. Manage existing Wilderness such that the user has to get deep within rather than simply cross a magical line that somehow provides serenity whereas other side of the line in the sand is viewed as unfit for their recreation experience.
Yeah, that example should be used to show a balance is needed- eg improve even expand some motorcycle trails.
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