ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > Regional forums > The Rockies It's all downhill from here...
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-25-2012, 10:57 AM   #91
COXR650L
Beastly Adventurer
 
COXR650L's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Denver
Oddometer: 1,435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Garvin View Post
I will say this again, because I do not possess the computer savy yet, that we need to get the obama and business list link out to all of the regional forums in adv rider. I was scouting the other forums looking for issues similar to ours, and realized that there are a lot of people on the other forums that need to know about this. Every signature counts! and it is so easy to complete. I would think that this would be an excellent way to show strength in numbers because that is what is needed here and if this happens some where else, that we would be called upon to respond. I would think that the 4wd off road groups would be pissing razor blades about this also. I will see if my jeep club is aware of this when I get back in town and see if a collective effort is being mounted on their part.
Maybe regarding this a moderator can help or offer advice. Can we do a post in the other regional forums regarding this issue, or is that considered spam??
COXR650L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 01:02 PM   #92
dmac1 OP
Desert SW Luvr
 
dmac1's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Elizabeth, Colorado
Oddometer: 663
I got the standard Patagucci response:

Dear Dave,
Thank you very much for getting in touch about something you and we care about. We hope you'll reconsider your decision to stop buying from us, but our position on national monuments and wilderness remains what it has been for forty years.

We think that some lands need to be set aside and the human impact on them should be light in order to give the land a rest, and the animals and plants on it a place to live.

Sincerely,
Patagonia
Customer Service |P: 800.638.6464 800.638.6464 |www.patagonia.com
Patagonia Customer Service Reps are available for inquiries weekdays from 6am to 6pm, and weekends from 8am to 4pm (PT).

Heres what I asked em back:

Thanks for the response, but your company seems to be a bit hypocritical in
its position. What about the climbers you support who climb illegally (a
certain arch in Arches National Park comes to mind). Or how about the piles
of waste (human and otherwise) that climbers continually leave at various
basecamps and mid-climb? And how do you reconcile your response when your
company supports expeditions into pristine environments that are left
trampled and soiled? And what about bolts placed on virgin rock faces?
Oh...and do they not use vehicles to get there? And does your firm not
profit off of all the above? Or is all of the above somehow different?

So...what I want to know is how you are going to give the land a rest from
YOUR firm's impact? When you tell me that, I'll reconsider buying your
products.

Thanks.
Dave
__________________
RwR | BRC | COHVCO | USA-All | Gunny/C.B GOATS
2006 KTM 450 EXC
dmac1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 05:44 PM   #93
Gordy
Team Listo
 
Gordy's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: NM
Oddometer: 21,888
It's also very easy to have your spouse write a few letters too.

If someone can post up contact info for all of the businesses (as you find them) that would help as well.
Gordy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 06:08 PM   #94
dmac1 OP
Desert SW Luvr
 
dmac1's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Elizabeth, Colorado
Oddometer: 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordy View Post
It's also very easy to have your spouse write a few letters too.

If someone can post up contact info for all of the businesses (as you find them) that would help as well.
Good idea Gordy. I'm having my son sign the ARRA petition too.

As far as writing each company, I just googled them and located their contact link. Most often you have to fill in their form. A couple I've encountered limit comments to 1000 characters (Jansport and Marmot) so that was a pain. Each company is different, but generally I cut and pasted the same base email into each company's form and I customized it from there. So this AM I wrote 20 emails and will try to chip away at the list this week. A few of the local companies such as the coffee roasters and the restaurant above it on the list I posted don't have websites.

I've also drafted a letter for COXR650L and hope its a good start and something we can all sign and send to the retailers to, in short, impress upon them what a national monument is all about, the diversity of interests we all have (e.g a bunch of us are mountain bikers) and the economic impact we provide to the areas we visit. Stay tuned for more on this.
__________________
RwR | BRC | COHVCO | USA-All | Gunny/C.B GOATS
2006 KTM 450 EXC
dmac1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 05:06 AM   #95
dentvet
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: hunt country virginia
Oddometer: 1,239
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmac1 View Post
A few of the local companies such as the coffee roasters and the restaurant above it on the list I posted don't have websites.

I've also drafted a letter for COXR650L and hope its a good start and something we can all sign and send to the retailers to, in short, impress upon them what a national monument is all about, the diversity of interests we all have (e.g a bunch of us are mountain bikers) and the economic impact we provide to the areas we visit. Stay tuned for more on this.

"Organizing the community" of local mom and pop businesses that will be harmed by this into a coherent group would be a good thing. Turn this into a "little guy" vs. "Big/corporate Recreation" (patagonia Inc. etc) issue. I guess we need to find a way to get them to defect from their list to ours. Get all the local country store, motel, restaurant, outfitters, gas station businesses etc.

Does Lyle Lovett still ride? President loves the celebrities.

One last random thought; there must be several working or retired lawyers in the ADV community that could start up something like the "Center for Recreational Diversity". Meetings held in Alaska and/or Bike Week.
dentvet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 07:15 AM   #96
singletrackslayer
Legalize singletrack
 
singletrackslayer's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2011
Location: Morningwood, CO
Oddometer: 473
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmac1 View Post
I got the standard Patagucci response:

Dear Dave,
Thank you very much for getting in touch about something you and we care about. We hope you'll reconsider your decision to stop buying from us, but our position on national monuments and wilderness remains what it has been for forty years.

We think that some lands need to be set aside and the human impact on them should be light in order to give the land a rest, and the animals and plants on it a place to live.

Sincerely,
Patagonia
Customer Service |P: 800.638.6464 800.638.6464 |www.patagonia.com
Patagonia Customer Service Reps are available for inquiries weekdays from 6am to 6pm, and weekends from 8am to 4pm (PT).

Heres what I asked em back:

Thanks for the response, but your company seems to be a bit hypocritical in
its position. What about the climbers you support who climb illegally (a
certain arch in Arches National Park comes to mind). Or how about the piles
of waste (human and otherwise) that climbers continually leave at various
basecamps and mid-climb? And how do you reconcile your response when your
company supports expeditions into pristine environments that are left
trampled and soiled? And what about bolts placed on virgin rock faces?
Oh...and do they not use vehicles to get there? And does your firm not
profit off of all the above? Or is all of the above somehow different?

So...what I want to know is how you are going to give the land a rest from
YOUR firm's impact? When you tell me that, I'll reconsider buying your
products.

Thanks.
Dave
some sherpas volunteered to remove 8.5 tons of trash from mt everest. I agree that maybe "some lands need to be set aside and protected" from companies such as patagonia and black diamond.

http://www.savingmounteverest.org/clean-up.html
__________________
This is Motorado . . .
singletrackslayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 07:31 AM   #97
dmac1 OP
Desert SW Luvr
 
dmac1's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Elizabeth, Colorado
Oddometer: 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by COXR650L View Post
Maybe regarding this a moderator can help or offer advice. Can we do a post in the other regional forums regarding this issue, or is that considered spam??
I suggest we cross post to other regional forums once we have the letter finalized. and any necessary links established. People come to Moab from all over the country. Once we are ready, I suggest we create a new thread on this issue in this forum and the first post should be clear and concise. It should spell out what all we're going to lose (I've got a querey into Ride with Respect for some help on that) and what action we are asking people to take. Clearly signing the ARRA letter generator is a no brainer. Hopefully our petition to the retailers will be a no brainer too. The letter is drafted and probably will be slightly revised and then good to go soon. I spent most of yesterday on this.

In case you guys missed my post - I believe the southern portion of White Wash is INCLUDED in the proposed national monument. I think Dead Cow Loop and Cow Freckles will be goners. Possibly the southern portion of Enduro Loop but I can't tell on that for sure from the Sierra Club's map.

If any of you are on the mtn bike forums, is the issue gaining any traction there? I checked mtbr.com and saw nothing. I've also asked RwR for any mtn bike impact. I think Canyon Rims will be impacted (its S of Moab and W of 191). I am unsure about Bartlett Wash and Amasa Back.
__________________
RwR | BRC | COHVCO | USA-All | Gunny/C.B GOATS
2006 KTM 450 EXC
dmac1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 08:00 AM   #98
COXR650L
Beastly Adventurer
 
COXR650L's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Denver
Oddometer: 1,435
Maybe someone can help, i thought there is a study about the sources of tourism revenue in utah that showed about 1/3 of it is generated by OHV visitors. Can some send me a link to this study?

Thanks

Edit: Never mind, right in front of me

COXR650L screwed with this post 11-26-2012 at 08:14 AM
COXR650L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 08:11 AM   #99
FatChance
Road Captain
 
FatChance's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: Durango, Colorado, USA
Oddometer: 10,140
Quote:
Originally Posted by COXR650L View Post
The best way I can see to stop this is banning together.
Unfortunately, everyone did get together on November 6th and the majority decided they wanted to support the guy who will sign away your land access rights. I find it ironic to hear the outrage about this closure of public land from the same people who actively supported him right here in the Rockies forum knowing that this was one of the things he wanted to do.
__________________
Pain in the Butte Ranch
Durango, Colorado

- Calculated risk or forbidden fruit?
FatChance is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 08:22 AM   #100
COXR650L
Beastly Adventurer
 
COXR650L's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Denver
Oddometer: 1,435
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatChance View Post
Unfortunately, everyone did get together on November 6th and the majority decided they wanted to support the guy who will sign away your land access rights. I find it ironic to hear the outrage about this closure of public land from the same people who actively supported him right here in the Rockies forum knowing that this was one of the things he wanted to do.
I cannot agree more, but this is the hand we have been dealt. Unfortunately the country as a whole is moving in a direction that will create more and more threats to our lifestyle and hobbies.

This is why it is so important to stop this. If they get the ball rolling on land use issues by pushing though such a massive closure it will be the start of a very slippery slope.

I think this quote from a European rider in the Capt Jacks thread is our future.....

"In the UK, nowhere.

10 yrs ago the government shut 98% of our trails, and what's left is not very good and is being shut one trail at a time.

But now I ride illegally, in bits of wood and some military land.

STEALTH is the name of the game now, and night riding.

One of the main reasons I don't update my bike is if I get caught there is a good chance they confiscate your bike.."



IS THE ABOVE QUOTE OUR FUTURE??? I am curious at what point they were facing the same decisions we are? Did it look similar to this issue?
COXR650L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 08:26 AM   #101
wzd1a
Beastly Adventurer
 
wzd1a's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Castle Rock
Oddometer: 1,363
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatChance View Post
Unfortunately, everyone did get together on November 6th and the majority decided they wanted to support the guy who will sign away your land access rights. I find it ironic to hear the outrage about this closure of public land from the same people who actively supported him right here in the Rockies forum knowing that this was one of the things he wanted to do.
I was going to type something very similar to this, but it probably would not have been so well stated. From my perspective the country made its choice - I will spend no money, time or effort working to halt the processes that result from that choice.

Both this area and the Captain Jacks area will be nice places to go for a walk.
wzd1a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 08:40 AM   #102
Bendejo
Movin' on up
 
Bendejo's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Far East Colfax
Oddometer: 4,493
Quote:
Originally Posted by wzd1a View Post
I will spend no money, time or effort working to halt the processes that result from that choice.
So you're taking your ball and going home?
Bendejo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 08:45 AM   #103
wzd1a
Beastly Adventurer
 
wzd1a's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Castle Rock
Oddometer: 1,363
pretty much. I see no reason to fight the masses. I am all in now for Obama care as well. I will try to apply for food stamps as soon as possible, hopefully about the same time as I get my unemployment.
wzd1a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 08:45 AM   #104
COXR650L
Beastly Adventurer
 
COXR650L's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Denver
Oddometer: 1,435
Quote:
Originally Posted by wzd1a View Post
I was going to type something very similar to this, but it probably would not have been so well stated. From my perspective the country made its choice - I will spend no money, time or effort working to halt the processes that result from that choice.

Both this area and the Captain Jacks area will be nice places to go for a walk.
WOW.........

Do you think this is the first time the country will choose a leader you will not agree with??? Do you really think it will be the last???

It is because of this mentality and a lack of will power to suck it up and keep moving forward that is detrimental to what we are trying to do. America as a whole is becoming more and more complacent and just gives up the fight (for any issue....) and becomes another member of the herd.

Is it frustrating, absolutely yes. But do you really think you are the first person that has to fight for something they believe in even when it is not popular and an up hill battle??
COXR650L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 08:48 AM   #105
Bendejo
Movin' on up
 
Bendejo's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Far East Colfax
Oddometer: 4,493
Quote:
Originally Posted by wzd1a View Post
pretty much. I see no reason to fight the masses. I am all in now for Obama care as well. I will try to apply for food stamps as soon as possible, hopefully about the same time as I get my unemployment.
Not that you're bitter or anything.

P.S. Can I have your bikes?
Bendejo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 09:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014