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Old 11-26-2012, 03:16 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by wzd1a View Post


I am not rallying around the GOP - I can't wait for this and other closures to happen. The faster the better.
I assume you didn't sign the petition then?
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:17 PM   #122
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You guys are trying to somehow associate this MAJOR land grab with the recent elections and that couldn't be farther from the truth. Was that on the platform or even an issue in the campaign? Take the blinders off, stay focused and do something about THIS.
THIS has probably been in the works for four years and is a transparent repayment to one of his biggest constituent groups now that the second term is a done deal and he doesn't have to face re-election. Does the timing of THIS just seem coincidental? THIS is a consequence whether you recognize it for what it is or not. It would have been easier to prevent THIS from happening a couple weeks ago than stopping THIS from happening going forward, but the horse is out of the barn. Only his signature is required (congress doesn't have a say in the matter of an Executive Order) so there isn't much to stop him now that his final election is in the past.
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:25 PM   #123
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Doc, you are an intelligent, insightful man. Look in the mirror...
I prefer to look in the bowl of logic. We really should get back to seeing how we can head off the Sierra Club through the kind of coalition that gets things done. This issue is happening all across the West as public useage becomes more intense. We have lots of land in this beautiful part of the country. We need to keep it open for energy exploration, outdoor experience, and raising cows in some places. And some areas need to be protected from too much use. Yellowstone was such a battle ground a few years ago and in the early days places like Mt. Rainier Park were. The central Utah region is unique in all these battles, though and I think that the situation right now is pretty ideal and seriously doubt that the area will be redefined in any significant manner. I strongly believe that the Sierra Club will not prevail, and don't think the Utah Governor will hold sway either. I think that we will be able to do our thing, but we need to recognize that some areas are vulnerable to damage. Some of the 4x4 groups do a great job repairing damage, lobbying, and picking up trash. I think motorcycle riders do the least damage of all but are the poorest at lobbying. For this reason alliance with the 4x4 groups and getting important advocates such as Jon Huntsman and Ken Salazar are crucial. The equipment manufacturers seem to be runny scared and don't really realize where their bread is buttered, but all this political rancor between ADV members is pretty silly and useless.
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:41 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by wzd1a View Post
Your simply wrong - it is directly related to the elections as is the gun grab proposed Nov. 24, 2012 here in CO,


1st story on Utah one week after election:

More than 100 outdoor-recreation companies Tuesday formally petitioned President Barack Obama to designate a national monument surrounding Canyonlands National Park near Moab, a major tourist hub for everything from mountain biking to navigating the area's famous slot canyons....

We need to quit the infighting! I received a response from New Belgium Brewing and in it he said they signed the letter to President Obama in SEPTEMBER.
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:47 PM   #125
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Response from Gregory Mtn Products.

Below is what they said. I have countered most of what he said via Blue Ribbon's emails and asked where in the letter it say's they'll preserver our roads and trails and all current forms of recreation. The part that concerns me, and that I've asked for info about, is the allegation about the huge impending oil and gas development increase. I know there is a bunch already going at White Wash, but does anyone have any further info about it? I responded to them by saying, in essence, that I smelled a SUWA'r rat!
---------------------------

David,

Gregory has long held fast in the belief that we need to preserve our natural resources for the enjoyment of future generations. Access to, and protection of, these pristine wilderness areas are what ultimately keeps us in business. Our products are built to empower our customers with the simple freedom to explore the outdoors.

Greater Canyonlands area is one of these areas that need public attention and protection from unnecessary development. Gregory signed the letter from the Outdoor Industry Association to open up the dialogue and bring the issue to the forefront. A couple of points of clarification are in order as we continue the dialogue.

1) Motorized Recreation in Greater Canyonlands
The Outdoor Industry Association proposal for a Canyonlands National Monument WOULD KEEP ROADS AND TRAILS OPEN TO MOTORIZED TRAVEL. The outdoor industry is asking for this Monument to protect recreation of all types---biking, jeeping, hiking, horses, ohv's, hang gliders, base jumpers---EVERYBODY. We are seeking to protect the area from mineral extraction, like oil and gas, tar sands, and oil shale. Development of these resources has already started and is slated to ramp up beginning next year on the 5 million acres to the north, south, east and west of Canyonlands. No one enjoys camping near an oil pump that is making noise all night, or riding our bikes, hiking, or driving through toxic sludge. The Moab economy and the outdoor industry both depend on big natural places that people want to visit. That is what Greater Canyonlands is, and we want to keep it that way so everybody can come and see it.

2) Nobody is stealing the land in the middle of the night
The Outdoor Industry Association made public the proposal to protect the area around Canyonlands National Park as a National Monument because we want you to talk about it. Over 5 million acres around the 1.4 million acre proposal is slated for oil and gas, tar sands, and oil shale development. Moab and other nearby towns may someday get mineral lease money and jobs from these industries, but today Moab and the outdoor industry depend on recreation. We want you to know more about all aspects of the recreation economy. We also want you to know more about YOUR public land and what people are doing with it. While some people think we should get every last drop of oil and gas from every last acre, others would like to save a portion of the land for recreation of all types from hiking to Jeeping. We encourage you to discuss this choice, but recommend you do it under the stars, around a campfire, somewhere out in OUR---that's right, it belongs to all of us---beautiful Utah desert.

Gregory will continue to support efforts to protect outdoor recreation areas that benefit the enjoyment from all outdoor enthusiasts.

I hope this helps.

George McCloskey
Grassroots Coordinator




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Old 11-26-2012, 03:54 PM   #126
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This proposal would not have been shelved to wait out the dems in the White House. If you don't like how the election turned out, sorry. Get involved there too and maybe get a better candidate next time.
Sounds like you think the better candidate would never consider signing something like this to pay back a constituent group so you shouldn't have anything to worry about, right? It cannot happen without him signing the Executive Order. Why are you so worried about what the better candidate will do?
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:02 PM   #127
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You are either kidding yourself or you aren't paying attention. National Monuments cannot be created by "environmentalists." Virtually all other means of permanent sequestration of public lands are controlled by Congress. Congress is the most "democratic" branch of our government. That's the point. The power to create a NM rest with the Executive (i.e. the President). One more time: The power to create a NM is the President's.
Right...The President. We get that. Do you not get who is behind the letter to president obama? It is SUWA, it is Sierra Club, it is the CEO of Black Diamond. These are the 'environmentalists' and they are campaigning for a national monument via their letter to the president.

This is just a different tact than what they tried a few years ago via the proposed Red Rock Wilderness Bill. Are you familiar with that? If not, it would have LOCKED US OUT OF MOST OF UTAH had it passed in Congress.

So ya see? They tried the democratic approach and now they are trying another tact. If they succeed, do you think they'll be satisfied?

I don't understand wny ANY off road dirt biker would want the monument to be put in place. If there is a good reason, I'm listening.
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:50 PM   #128
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I don't understand wny ANY off road dirt biker would want the monument to be put in place. If there is a good reason, I'm listening.
Not a single person, as far as I could tell, has said they wanted the monument to be put in place anywhere in this thread. Nice red herring. The group behind the push, Sierra Club, SUWA or any such group doesn't matter at all if the President will not sign the Executive order.

My issue is if someone voted for someone they think might go ahead and sign such an executive order to create this National Monument or not. I did not vote for someone I think would actually do such a thing. Did you? Again, if someone doesn't think their guy would do something like this, they probably don't have much to be worried about. If they do think he would, was the rest of the stuff they got for their vote worth it?
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Old 11-26-2012, 05:32 PM   #129
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Petition signed.
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Old 11-26-2012, 06:01 PM   #130
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A little history in case anybody missed it:
http://www.twowheelmania.com/2011/06...-lands-policy/
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Old 11-26-2012, 06:45 PM   #131
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A little history in case anybody missed it:
http://www.twowheelmania.com/2011/06...-lands-policy/
Thanks, Doc. Since this would require an Executive Order, it sounds like there is nothing to worry about and this is all just a false alarm...








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Old 11-26-2012, 06:56 PM   #132
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Not a single person, as far as I could tell, has said they wanted the monument to be put in place anywhere in this thread. Nice red herring. The group behind the push, Sierra Club, SUWA or any such group doesn't matter at all if the President will not sign the Executive order.

My issue is if someone voted for someone they think might go ahead and sign such an executive order to create this National Monument or not. I did not vote for someone I think would actually do such a thing. Did you? Again, if someone doesn't think their guy would do something like this, they probably don't have much to be worried about. If they do think he would, was the rest of the stuff they got for their vote worth it?
I smell a troll and suggest you quit trying to make this into a political arguement with everyone. It just may be an important issue and yes wzd1a said he couldn't wait for the closure to happen. Looking at it again, he was likely tongue in cheek.

Thanks for trying to drag me down to your level, but it ain't happenin. Sorry to disappoint you.
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Old 11-26-2012, 06:59 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by FatChance View Post
THIS has probably been in the works for four years and is a transparent repayment to one of his biggest constituent groups now that the second term is a done deal and he doesn't have to face re-election. Does the timing of THIS just seem coincidental? THIS is a consequence whether you recognize it for what it is or not. It would have been easier to prevent THIS from happening a couple weeks ago than stopping THIS from happening going forward, but the horse is out of the barn. Only his signature is required (congress doesn't have a say in the matter of an Executive Order) so there isn't much to stop him now that his final election is in the past.
Look, there's just no doubt that if this passes thru, it's because of who is in the office (Prez).
Doesn't exactly help us now, but we can still fight this and make our contacts, and voices heard to those with the strings, and those who support this retardation. . . .
BO is going to push the envelope in many ways during his last term.
Hang on, and be ready to feign shock when he does. ()
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Old 11-26-2012, 07:04 PM   #134
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Thanks, Doc. Since this would require an Executive Order, it sounds like there is nothing to worry about and this is all just a false alarm...








If you had bothered to read the article then you would have noted this:
"The move was largely met with outrage and controversy, as it seemed to be a blatant attempt to ignore the legislative process. Fortunately, the backlash was such that the order never went anywhere. In fact, President Obama’s April signing of the Fiscal Year 2011 Continuing Resolution, essentially a temporary budget agreement, included specific language blocking the Bureau of Land Management from instituting the policy."

Which shows that with the outrage from the wheeler community, the Pres signed the CR that blocked BLM from instituting a full roadless designation. Now what are we as ADVers missing as 'part of the community;? And what are you missing?
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Old 11-26-2012, 07:07 PM   #135
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Update on my contact with New Belgium Brewing (I selected them as one of my 20 contacts on Sunday because I like to enjoy a Fat Tire from time to time).

Anyway, they largely provided the response that was published earlier, but with a few more details. Subsequent to that, I responded back and provided some facts per the BRC and I also offered to provide some more info from my (our) point of view. The gentleman I was in contact with expressed a willingness to review the information and possibly discuss things further within the company.

Anyway, I was glad to hear that they would at least take a look at things from our vantage point.
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