major engine broken bolt

mqo233 · 11-23-2012, 10:22 AM

on my 05, GS, the clutch went out, and the two bolts that hold the sub frame on, which you have to remove to swing the rear frame upward, well one broke. I went to loosen them, and it was tough, so I started sparying thread lubrication, I like areo koil, sparyed for days, finally, it was time, and it broke right off. not good. I got some left hand drill bits, to start drilling it out, things started out good, as the smaller bits went in really good. I have new bolts so I know how long they are, and I marked the bits, so as not to drill all the way. things went well for the first three bits. Number four broke inside the bolt, have ever tried to drill a drill bit out??? not good,

I decided to take a break and ask for any advise

thanks

James

onewheelwunder · 11-23-2012, 10:56 AM

APPLY heat! It may have red thread locker on it. Heat guns work best, torch in a pinch

def · 11-23-2012, 11:43 AM

If heat fails, EDM would be my next approach. I believe there are some portable EDM services out there.

mqo233 · 11-23-2012, 01:05 PM

what is a EDM device

mqo233 · 11-24-2012, 02:59 AM

I google the EMD device and could not find anyone in my town that has one, if someone knows where I could go, I am willing to travel to get this problem taken care of

thanks

James

JRP · 11-24-2012, 05:04 AM

A carbide burr used in a Dremel tool will get rid of the broken drill, will take some time and patience though. If your drilled hole is center I would suggest a tap drill for the original size thread. That will leave just a small amount of thread from the original bolt to remove. A pick is handy for that.
I'm a tool & die maker so I get to do this often.

ragtoplvr · 11-24-2012, 05:22 AM

the drilling out of broken bolts is one of the most difficult arts to master. There is a reason a master machinist makes a very good living. This is one of them. On a BMW, assume it has lock tight. I have several wire stands for my heat gun, so it can sit and do its thing while I take a break and walk around muttering random obscenities about German bikes, German engineers and German parts in general.. When the part is hot, they screw right out.

Then when it is back together, the Koolaid is so good!

Rod

def · 11-24-2012, 09:06 AM

You might start here...

http://www.reliableedm.com/

But, I would follow the heat suggestion first...heat...as much as you dare apply.

Pukmeister · 11-24-2012, 09:44 AM

Assuming the drill bit you broke was a standard HSS drill, you could use a harder grade drill bit such as Cobalt steel (or better if you can find one), with lots of cooling, to drill out the broken drill. You will also need a steady hand or a means of keeping the drill square and centre whilst drilling.

The dremel sounds a very good idea if you can get a hard enough grinding burr for it, again it needs to be harder than the broken drill material. A Diamond burr would be good but I bet they are pricey and hard to find.

Patience is key, rushing the job usually causes more trouble than taking your time. good luck with it.

schlim66 · 11-24-2012, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mqo233

what is a EDM device

http://youtu.be/XfYXelZ4IaY

Reliable EDM
314 Garber Rd. · Broussard, LA 70518
Ph (337) 839-4799 · Fax (337) 839-4798

Schlim66

lhendrik · 11-25-2012, 07:49 AM

I suggest you step back and consider the possibility that you are in over your head and get some help with this from a pro. Just my thought.

def · 11-25-2012, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mqo233

I google the EMD device and could not find anyone in my town that has one, if someone knows where I could go, I am willing to travel to get this problem taken care of

thanks

James

You're fortunate. If you will visit this website, you'll find that they are located just a few miles from you in Broussard. This is one of the foremost EDM shops in the country.

http://www.reliableedm.com/

Reliable EDM
314 Garber Rd. · Broussard, LA 70518
Ph (337) 839-4799 · Fax (337) 839-4798
E-Mail: phil@reliableedm.com

Lujo · 11-25-2012, 11:29 AM

BTDT. With my '04 GS. I was lucky and extracting broken drill bits was relatively straightforward. Once I bought some very high-quality drill bits everything went smoothly. Before that I was wondering what I was doing wrong.

mqo233 · 11-25-2012, 01:18 PM

as to the drill bits, I purchased the most expensive left handed bits, thinking that would help get the bolt turning and maybe assist in the removal, I first drilled a pilot hold with a right handed cobalt bit, and as I see the first several went well,

I will be contacting the shop in Broussard on Monday,

thanks for all the help, I was able to get the other side out without any problem, I guess I just got the bit in a bad position,

we will see

thanks

James

Lujo · 11-25-2012, 01:21 PM

If the right-hand drill bits are working for you, you could try drilling out the old bolt completely, enlarge the hole in the engine case, and put in a helicoil. (This is what I did.)

11-23-2012, 10:22 AM	#1
mqo233 ^OP Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Jan 2006 Location: Lafayette, Louisiana Oddometer: 347	major engine broken bolt on my 05, GS, the clutch went out, and the two bolts that hold the sub frame on, which you have to remove to swing the rear frame upward, well one broke. I went to loosen them, and it was tough, so I started sparying thread lubrication, I like areo koil, sparyed for days, finally, it was time, and it broke right off. not good. I got some left hand drill bits, to start drilling it out, things started out good, as the smaller bits went in really good. I have new bolts so I know how long they are, and I marked the bits, so as not to drill all the way. things went well for the first three bits. Number four broke inside the bolt, have ever tried to drill a drill bit out??? not good, I decided to take a break and ask for any advise thanks James

11-24-2012, 05:04 AM	#6
JRP Old guy Joined: Apr 2004 Location: Hampden, MA Oddometer: 1,362	A carbide burr used in a Dremel tool will get rid of the broken drill, will take some time and patience though. If your drilled hole is center I would suggest a tap drill for the original size thread. That will leave just a small amount of thread from the original bolt to remove. A pick is handy for that. I'm a tool & die maker so I get to do this often. __________________ "What could possibly go wrong? " The Jerk 2012 TE 250 2010 F 650 GS 1983 R 80 G/S

11-24-2012, 09:06 AM	#8
def I have little to say Joined: Feb 2004 Location: The woods and mountains of Alabama Oddometer: 6,338	Edm You might start here... http://www.reliableedm.com/ But, I would follow the heat suggestion first...heat...as much as you dare apply.

11-25-2012, 07:49 AM	#11
lhendrik Truffle Rustler Joined: Dec 2008 Location: New York and Floridoodie Oddometer: 1,944	I suggest you step back and consider the possibility that you are in over your head and get some help with this from a pro. Just my thought. __________________ Normal is just a setting on the dryer. Armageddon was yesterday - Today we have a serious problem. 2009 R1200GS Adventure 2008 K1200GT

11-25-2012, 11:29 AM	#13
Lujo Studly Adventurer Joined: Nov 2003 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Oddometer: 954	BTDT. With my '04 GS. I was lucky and extracting broken drill bits was relatively straightforward. Once I bought some very high-quality drill bits everything went smoothly. Before that I was wondering what I was doing wrong. __________________ '08 F800ST, '04 GS Adv, [ex: '99 KLR 650, '88 Vulcan 750]

11-23-2012, 10:56 AM	#2
onewheelwunder are we there yet? Joined: Mar 2005 Location: minneapolis,MN Oddometer: 129	APPLY heat! It may have red thread locker on it. Heat guns work best, torch in a pinch

11-23-2012, 11:43 AM	#3
def I have little to say Joined: Feb 2004 Location: The woods and mountains of Alabama Oddometer: 6,338	If heat fails, EDM would be my next approach. I believe there are some portable EDM services out there.

11-23-2012, 01:05 PM	#4
mqo233 ^OP Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Jan 2006 Location: Lafayette, Louisiana Oddometer: 347	what is a EDM device

11-24-2012, 02:59 AM	#5
mqo233 ^OP Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Jan 2006 Location: Lafayette, Louisiana Oddometer: 347	I google the EMD device and could not find anyone in my town that has one, if someone knows where I could go, I am willing to travel to get this problem taken care of thanks James

11-24-2012, 05:22 AM	#7
ragtoplvr Beastly Adventurer Joined: Oct 2007 Location: S. W. Mssouri Oddometer: 4,560	the drilling out of broken bolts is one of the most difficult arts to master. There is a reason a master machinist makes a very good living. This is one of them. On a BMW, assume it has lock tight. I have several wire stands for my heat gun, so it can sit and do its thing while I take a break and walk around muttering random obscenities about German bikes, German engineers and German parts in general.. When the part is hot, they screw right out. Then when it is back together, the Koolaid is so good! Rod

11-24-2012, 09:44 AM	#9
Pukmeister Adventurer Joined: Apr 2007 Oddometer: 20	Assuming the drill bit you broke was a standard HSS drill, you could use a harder grade drill bit such as Cobalt steel (or better if you can find one), with lots of cooling, to drill out the broken drill. You will also need a steady hand or a means of keeping the drill square and centre whilst drilling. The dremel sounds a very good idea if you can get a hard enough grinding burr for it, again it needs to be harder than the broken drill material. A Diamond burr would be good but I bet they are pricey and hard to find. Patience is key, rushing the job usually causes more trouble than taking your time. good luck with it.

11-25-2012, 01:18 PM	#14
mqo233 ^OP Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Jan 2006 Location: Lafayette, Louisiana Oddometer: 347	as to the drill bits, I purchased the most expensive left handed bits, thinking that would help get the bolt turning and maybe assist in the removal, I first drilled a pilot hold with a right handed cobalt bit, and as I see the first several went well, I will be contacting the shop in Broussard on Monday, thanks for all the help, I was able to get the other side out without any problem, I guess I just got the bit in a bad position, we will see thanks James

11-25-2012, 01:21 PM	#15
Lujo Studly Adventurer Joined: Nov 2003 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Oddometer: 954	If the right-hand drill bits are working for you, you could try drilling out the old bolt completely, enlarge the hole in the engine case, and put in a helicoil. (This is what I did.) __________________ '08 F800ST, '04 GS Adv, [ex: '99 KLR 650, '88 Vulcan 750]

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