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Old 11-24-2012, 08:20 PM   #16
roger 04 rt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alainmax View Post
well Roger, it seem to run better in open loop and started running a little rougher when one first bar ( temp) came on....
had little time today, will try to find some tomorrow to confirm...i did all this without the idle accelerator() on...


If indeed confirmed, i suppose i will take the tank off and disconnect the O2 sensor connection , reassemble and try again, right? if at that point it runs fine, do i just change the O2 sensor ( + module reset)?

thanks Wirepro, I have not tried the plug dance yet

Again thank you much for your help
Alainmax, Just before 1 bar it is Open Loop AND richer mixture. Often, the richness (only a few percent richer at that point) makes a big difference.

What I think I'd do if I were you would be disconnect the O2 and add temporarily an AIR TEMP. Shifter like BoosterPlug or iice air. I have one you can borrow for testing. Does your fuel have ethanol in it? If so is it 10% like I get here in MA? Adding the air temp shift in open loop will keep the mixture a few percent richer. I don't recommend it as a long temp solution but it may give you a lot of insight.

What we want to find out before you spend money on a new o2 sensor is how sensitive your bike is to its mixture.
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Old 11-24-2012, 09:07 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roger 04 rt View Post
Alainmax, Just before 1 bar it is Open Loop AND richer mixture. Often, the richness (only a few percent richer at that point) makes a big difference.

What I think I'd do if I were you would be disconnect the O2 and add temporarily an AIR TEMP. Shifter like BoosterPlug or iice air. I have one you can borrow for testing. Does your fuel have ethanol in it? If so is it 10% like I get here in MA? Adding the air temp shift in open loop will keep the mixture a few percent richer. I don't recommend it as a long temp solution but it may give you a lot of insight.

What we want to find out before you spend money on a new o2 sensor is how sensitive your bike is to its mixture.
thank you Roger,

My mistake : i keep forgetting to include this info . : i have been running the booster plug for 3-4 years !!!
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Old 11-25-2012, 04:22 AM   #18
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Even though you have a BoosterPlug, if you follow my sequence it will have a different effect. With the O2 sensor disconnected and the Motronic reset, the BoosterPlug will always add 6% to your fuel. After a while of running closed loop the BP effect is greatly diminished

However if you are running Ethanol fuel you need to connect the BoosterPlug in a different way for this test. That is because ethanol is 4% too lean. Normally the Motronic in closed loop corrects for this. To run the test open loop you need to add 4% for ethanol and 6% to get a richer mixture. The BP can be wired in series with the IAT for this test.

Is your fuel with or without ethanol? Any chance you have ever run leaded fuel?

roger 04 rt screwed with this post 11-25-2012 at 04:38 AM
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:43 AM   #19
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?vacuum leak?
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:46 AM   #20
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Yes the gas is up to 10%ethanol and no i have never run leaded gas in this bike.

I have to take the tank off and see how i can run the BP in serie with the AIT (air intake temperature, right?) without cutting wires etc...otherwise, not sure how to proceed
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Old 11-25-2012, 10:23 AM   #21
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Stick coil!

The first three replies to your post (including Roger's #1 recommendation) were referencing stick coils yet your pulling the tank an tearing into the o2 sensor and booster plug?
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Old 11-25-2012, 11:35 AM   #22
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Wirepro, thank you for helping me zoom out.
As mentioned earlier, this afternoon i will confirm (or infirm) the behavior before the closed loop kicks in.

if so i would have to try the O2 sensor disconnect. Here is where your comment is pertinent (quit rolling your eyes) , i will go through the sticks again before tanks comes off

Roger, does the booster plug intervene before or after the connector?


vacuum leak: i tried spraying some brake cleaner on the throttle body ( before and after the injectors) to temporarily seal any air gap and see if the idle rpm would raise.... Any where else i should look?
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Old 11-25-2012, 02:26 PM   #23
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What I did was purchase 3 fuel injection connectors, 2female and one male. A female connected to the stock IAT, to the output of the BP and the male connector plugged into the harness going into the Motronic. When you put them in series you get a 30C drop. The iice air product has a 30C setting if someone you know has one.
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Old 11-25-2012, 02:47 PM   #24
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all right, here it goes

Took the bike out, not using the idle accelerator ( coz the'r ain't no choke), rode rough even before hitting the first bar on temp display, so this negated my test in the rain yesterday....

so back to drawing board and now to the stickies.

i did 3 weeks ago , removing the secondary plugs as i read Step toe performing the test that way

" Don't disconnect the stick coil - the best test is to keep them in place and remove the secondary/lower spark plug cap and see if runs on just the stick coil plugs.

No "if's" or "buts" that way - It'll either run on one side only or not at all __________________"
step toe 9/18/2011

so first i disconnected the primary while engine running. : R side off : no difference at all
L side off : noticeable difference at idle

so then i disconnected the lower plugs ; R side off : very rough running at idle ( relying on R stick coil)
L side off : hardly any difference

Wirepro, please stop rolling your eyes...

so tells me likely the R stick coil going bad and should be the first thing to change. I suppose it's better to change them both at the same time, right? Any particular brand or OEM?

PS: i did not notice a difference of this magnitude when i did it 3 weeks ago. So does it get worse and more noticeable with time?? ( I suppose if they re progressively going bad ) I thought it would be like a switch ( on or off type situation)

Awaiting sarcasm.... although by the number of views on this thread, i m sure i m not the only one learning...
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Old 11-25-2012, 04:42 PM   #25
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Dealer part.



I looked all over hell for a better deal. Ended up paying ~$115 each at the dealer. It hurt at the time but I was grinning from ear to ear on my first ride with two new sticks.
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:39 PM   #26
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No one will be sarcastic. I worked an issue on my bike today that led to my rid being blank, the fuel pump dead and the bike not starting--I bumped the kill switch while replacing an instrument cluster bulb. Coils look like a good call.
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:04 PM   #27
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i will report back when getting new ones. fingers crossed

i want to thank you both and others for the help.
We sure learn a lot from people like you willing to share their knowledge/experience

long live ADV
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:13 PM   #28
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well , no grin on the face...

As a matter of fact, connect new sticks ( $260 ), reset the motronics
and symptoms got dramatically worse , :
I can unplug stick on either side without changing the idle much ( only slight variance) !!!
and the bike became almost un -rideable .on the road
. New: if i blip the throttle, there is significant delay and at times engine dies


Fuel pump works and has new fuel filter as it showed starving on the freeway today, but that is not it.
back home and checked throttle cable, fuel lines for pinching etc... sparks at all plugs, air filter (to make sure)...
reset brass screw...vent lines

the plugs looked very black but easily removed ( fresh black) prolly to be expected at this time

i feel i'm overlooking something simple but what would it be.

so call to the team again

thank you
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Old 11-30-2012, 08:02 PM   #29
roger 04 rt
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This is hard to do from a distance but the symptoms you're describing sound like one of the fuel line quick disconnects isn't seated. I have had the return QD not seat and the motorcycle runs, but not well.

If that's not the problem, go over things slowly.

At some point you may want a GS-911 which would let you know what the inputs and outputs to the Motronic are doing and also whether there is an error code.
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Old 12-01-2012, 06:13 PM   #30
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QD were fine . so today , tried the stick coil swap : disconnecting R side hardly changes the idle, L side more noticeable but no real stumble ( did it with 3 different sticks)

so i decided to remove tank and disconnected O2sensor +motronic reset : no difference in behavior

Now i m thinking fuel starvation as short, quick blips almost kills the engine or at least delays the response. Gradual opening is almost fine but then engine sputters. i remove tank, take out fuel pump and clean all parts including bran new fuel filter. reassevmble, reset motronics again......... Same behavior !!!


Injector plugged? Would be extraordinary coincidence that this happens as i put new sticks, no?How does one clean them without sending out
Could the cable leading to the Right stick go bad? How? Why? Close examination of visible cable looks intact
Could the one coil for secondary plugs be the culprit? Well no ,as the cylinder runs on bottom plug only!

I still feel has to be some simple but i don t have enough experience with these. Love learning though...
Any insight is valued in this garage..
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