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Old 11-28-2012, 05:20 AM   #16
twinrider
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Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
Big questions: For someone who finds a dl650 occasionally topheavy, is the super tenere going to be too big?
I'm only 5'7" but find the Super Tenere to be incredibly light feeling whether lifting it off the side stand, wheeling it around or riding at very slow speeds through city traffic. It is extremely well balanced with a very low CoG and feels no where close to its listed weight. I also find the stock screen works fine for my height but did add handlebar risers.

With 26,000 mile valve clearance intervals and shaft drive, it's also low maintenance.
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:20 AM   #17
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Big negatives of the T800, it spews heat from the engine. Oz, that's an issue, elsewhere, maybe not. It also has no rear subframe, it's welded to the main part of the frame - drop it and it may be new bike time.
There are about a handful of people who think heat is an issue on any bike around. I think some of the would complain about a pedal bike, too ...

And the frame - so far I know of one case where this has been a problem. And here are quite a few people pushing the Tigers very hard off pavement.

Both things are way overstated in your post in my opinion.
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:56 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by PeterW View Post
Big negatives of the T800, it spews heat from the engine. Oz, that's an issue, elsewhere, maybe not. It also has no rear subframe, it's welded to the main part of the frame - drop it and it may be new bike time.

S10, great bike, felt nice - problem is my DL has needed to have a lie down now and then, and I can just barely pick it up. (Steep gravel strewn slopes of course, you don't typically fall off on flat seal). I don't need more power, but more weight, no, I don't need that at all :)

Of the two, the S10, of the three, DL.


Pete
I live on the Gulf Coast and it doesnt get much hotter or humid that this freakin place. I have no issues with heat from the motor. I do, however, agree with you about the sub-frame. I also dont like the way the pillion pegs are mounted. I will probably make my pillion pegs/supports removable before long.
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Old 11-28-2012, 06:10 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by PeterW View Post
Big negatives of the T800, it spews heat from the engine...


Pete





I have yet to experience this "heat problem" that I've seen a few non-tiger owners talk about. I've owned over 30 plus bikes and the 800 doesn't throw anymore heat off than any of the other bikes I've owned. Ride a Buell Ulysses and then get back with me on the heat issue.

Now to the original question. I currently own a 800XC and wouldn't trade it for a S10 straight up. That's not saying I don't think the S10 is a cool bike, I actually do and if my riding style or habit was different, I would certainly be riding it. With that being said, I ride solo and feel that the Tiger 800 is the perfect bike for someone who primarily rides one up, with the occasional passenger. I'm also not a big guy (5'10" and 205lbs), more on the small side compared to a lot of the guys I've met at ADV rallies . 99% of my riding is on pavement, but I have occasionally hit a dirt road. The non-Xc version would've handled anything that I am willing to throw at my XC, but I prefer the XC with the spoked wheels. If I rode primarily two, or cross country all the time, I would've more than likely went with the S10.

Having owned a DL650 in the past, I wouldn't even mention it in the same sentence as the other two bikes you are considering. While they may have improved it over the previous years, it's still a ugly and boring bike. I'm not saying it is a bad bike, they're just boring and made me want to suck start a shotgun at times.
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Old 11-28-2012, 06:36 PM   #20
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Having owned a DL650 in the past, I wouldn't even mention it in the same sentence as the other two bikes you are considering. While they may have improved it over the previous years, it's still a ugly and boring bike. I'm not saying it is a bad bike, they're just boring and made me want to suck start a shotgun at times.
Different strokes, I guess.

I am having the hardest time letting go of my wee - it isn't that I love it or think it is the best bike in the universe, I just can't come up with a bike that will fill its shoes with no compromises.

At this point, I am slightly tempted to just spring for a sargent seat and plow on for another 22k miles. Even with money out of the equation none of these bikes feels like enough of an upgrade over my k9.

Maybe I need to "upgrade" to a KLR


I'm liking the tiger right now but reports of front end bouncing and welded rear pegs are worrysome (not a lot, but there you are). I really wish I could test ride a tiger 800 roadie - the suspension and front hoop are just too weird on the XC.
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Old 11-28-2012, 06:51 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
At this point, I am slightly tempted to just spring for a sargent seat and plow on for another 22k miles. Even with money out of the equation none of these bikes feels like enough of an upgrade over my k9.
Looking forward to the photo's of the new improved wee.
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:41 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
Different strokes, I guess.

I am having the hardest time letting go of my wee - it isn't that I love it or think it is the best bike in the universe, I just can't come up with a bike that will fill its shoes with no compromises.

At this point, I am slightly tempted to just spring for a sargent seat and plow on for another 22k miles. Even with money out of the equation none of these bikes feels like enough of an upgrade over my k9.

Maybe I need to "upgrade" to a KLR


I'm liking the tiger right now but reports of front end bouncing and welded rear pegs are worrysome (not a lot, but there you are). I really wish I could test ride a tiger 800 roadie - the suspension and front hoop are just too weird on the XC.


I'm certainly not going to tell you which bike to buy, but I will say that I wouldn't buy the "new" DL650, since you already have a 09. What does it offer that your current one doesn't, and at what cost?

So far I haven't had any issues with my Tiger, but I haven't had it long. I do know that out of 30+ bikes, they all had their own quirks, some just take longer to come out than others. I've probably owned more Suzukis than any other brand, but have had 5 Triumphs, not counting one that I got to part out, and they've been as reliable as any of the Suzukis. I don't know what the services cost at the dealerships as I change my own fluids, and don't think that I have ever had any valves checked on any bike. My moto is if it is running good, I'm not messing with it.
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:13 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Dirtysouth View Post




Having owned a DL650 in the past, I wouldn't even mention it in the same sentence as the other two bikes you are considering. While they may have improved it over the previous years, it's still a ugly and boring bike. I'm not saying it is a bad bike, they're just boring and made me want to suck start a shotgun at times.
Riding solo 300k's from anywhere and 'boring' (reliable) is good.

Heat on the Tiger was noticeable compared to the DL, I wear short boots on my commute and I had the test ride on the way home from work.
Not unbearable, but not something I'd welcome stuck in traffic or crawling along single track - not a killing problem, but it'd have annoyed me. If you wear full length boots all the time, possibly unnoticeable. The one piece frame would also have been annoying, I like riding dirt roads, and I know the bike will get dropped.

Not saying either bike is bad, but if you don't want or need the extra power, they really don't offer much over a DL. It comes down to relative advantages and disadvantages for the particular rider. I was actually going get get an S10, but the new (and improved enough) DL turned up before I spent the money.

Personally I want the lightest bike that'll get me where I want to go without giving me any grief doing that - so the 'boring' DL wins for me.

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Old 11-29-2012, 03:00 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Dirtysouth View Post
I'm certainly not going to tell you which bike to buy, but I will say that I wouldn't buy the "new" DL650, since you already have a 09. What does it offer that your current one doesn't, and at what cost?
Better suspension setup, more agile handling (without suffering on stability), improved respond to throttle, improved wind management, smaller fuel consumption, much better stock seat than older Wee, improved ABS, and immobilizer as standard. Before I owned the 2012, I thought just like you, that there´s no real difference, but in fact it is overall a better bike, small but noticeable changes here and there, and the result feels like it´s more than the sum of its parts. Worth the higher price? Well that´s up to everyone to decide for themselves.
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Old 11-29-2012, 09:50 AM   #25
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Riding solo 300k's from anywhere and 'boring' (reliable) is good.
The "boring" part of the DL isn't the reliability. It's that it's just so awfully boring to ride. The engine is great, but has absolutely no guts for a bike that is that heavy. And all the weight is so high up you get dizzy when moving it around in the real twisties. The forks are as stable as overcooked noodles, the suspension a joke unless completely worked over, the ass way too wide for any properly narrow luggage, the plastics are held together with incredibly soft plastic "screws", the windshield and fairing aerodynamics are super bad.

Other than that it's actually a great bike, but it doesn't hold a candle to any of the other bikes mentioned. The new 2012 one is better, but still so frigging cheaply built, I don't want to own one. I have owned one for long enough to know I never want one again.

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Heat on the Tiger was noticeable compared to the DL, I wear short boots on my commute and I had the test ride on the way home from work.
I wear sometimes hiking boots a jeans. Yeah, I can feel that there is an engine in that bike. I can feel that more because the engine is wider than the V-Twin of the Strom which brings it closer to the leg. Problem? No way. Issue? Absolutely not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterW View Post
Personally I want the lightest bike that'll get me where I want to go without giving me any grief doing that - so the 'boring' DL wins for me.
Sorry, if the DL were the only bike on earth I could own, maybe. I would have some fun with it. But the times where it would completely annoy me would be more than the fun times. I want more from a bike than the DL can deliver.

Other than that - I agree with the weight approach. Lighter is better for me.
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:03 AM   #26
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the ass way too wide for any properly narrow luggage,
To be fair this is a pretty common problem with the entire adventure tourer class. Slim, rugged (for commuting), waterproof luggage is a must and I'm not that impressed with any of the choices. I think plastic > aluminum for this duty and the choices are pretty much the same as they were in early 2010. Very off-center and 38" is worse than close to center at 40", for this sort of use (imho).

The 2012 wee has this problem too, of course, most every bike in this category does because of the high mount off-center exhaust. The s10 actually seems to be more trim in the rear than either the tiger or dl650, it might end up the most svelte of the bunch for daily commuting duty (weird, eh?).

tank range is another niggle in the back of my mind - I can get 200 miles out of my current bike loaded down and with that huge front sail.

I'm not saying I'm unwilling to compromise of those factors for a nicer handling and/or zippier bike, but it is hard to gauge long-term "live with it" things like that from a test ride.


I never noticed engine heat from the two tiger 800xc testrides I took.
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:11 AM   #27
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To be fair this is a pretty common problem with the entire adventure tourer class. Slim, rugged (for commuting), waterproof luggage is a must
The only bike where that is really readily available is the R1200GS. The Vario cases are actually pretty damn good for commuter use.

Or this (this is my previous bike), 32.5" width, 2x 37L cases, super solid:



Quote:
Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
The s10 actually seems to be more trim in the rear than either the tiger or dl650
That's an illusion. The Tenere and the Tiger are fairly similar. And both can be made narrower fairly easy with an aftermarket exhaust. There is not much plastic around the back of either bike.

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tank range is another niggle in the back of my mind - I can get 200 miles out of my current bike loaded down and with that huge front sail.
I get easily over 200 miles with my Tiger, though I don't do city commute and it definitely is not nearly as frugal as a DL or a F class BMW.
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:33 AM   #28
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There are about a handful of people who think heat is an issue on any bike around. I think some of the would complain about a pedal bike, too ...

And the frame - so far I know of one case where this has been a problem. And here are quite a few people pushing the Tigers very hard off pavement.

Both things are way overstated in your post in my opinion.

+1
Granted I've only ridden in temps up to 115F so maybe that's not hot enough but I see no issue with engine heat.
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Old 11-29-2012, 05:01 PM   #29
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We've had both Stroms, I've got the Tenere and have ridden the Trumpet. The flavors are distinctly different enough that I would suggest riding each as many times as possible. If you can, go with a friend to a delaer where you can check out two at the same time. After the first several rides, one of the three WILL stand out and speak to you.

Yes, the Wee is plain Jane vanilla. There are numerous windshields available for commuters, as well as cheap to expensive luggage. Like a Toyota Corolla or Yaris, it's a great little do-all if it's not pushed hard and I'd pick between it and the Tiger for commuting and errand running. It was all my son had as his college vehicle, including lots of 2-up trips to the beach.

It's just that the 650 reaches it's limit quickly. Yes, it'll keep up with bigger at reasonable speeds and on twisty roads. But it won't be comfortable. We exchanged it for the DL1000 before our Alaska trip this summer, because it's silly to ask it to push heavy loads at high speed day after day, especially at altitude in the mountains, which would have made the trip less enjoyable for us both. Otherwise, we'd still have the Wee.

The Tiger is a fantastic balance and much nicer than the Wee in almost every way. Triumph builds great bikes and I absolutely love the engine. But you do have to pay to get more. Triumph is also very dealer specific, as to whether you will be stranded for Mr. FedEx every time you need a part of ANY type. Again, I love the engine and size, it's just that the Tiger overlaps the Tenere just enough that I can't justify to myself getting one of each.

The Super Tenere is another class from the Wee and clearly the pick if you do much 2-up, camping, lond distance, etc. At less than a crawl, you are aware that it is a bigger and heavier bike than the other two. But it just does everything you ask it to do with less stress when loaded or at speed. I normally get over 200 miles per tank, tires last forever, commute on it and have zero issues with anything short of serious dirt, where I would also not take the Tiger either. AND with 26,000 mile valve inspections, shaft maintenance being almost nonexistent, Yamaha dealers everywhere, etc, you have less to do to keep the bike happy. It has enough electric output to run aux lights and two sets of heated gear, which has become a big item for us. The clutch switch mod wakes up the engine map for a couple dollars, the traction control has saved my bacon in the rain, and the ABS is the best there is. But again, you are aware of the weight and height when just running lots of short errands or in more serious dirt.

So again, different flavors and only trying each till they lose the initial WOW factor will tell which is right for you.
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:20 PM   #30
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I hope I didn't offend anyone by saying that I thought the DL650 was boring, as that wasn't my intention. The DL650 was my first "Adventure" bike coming off a DRZ400s. It is a great bike no doubt, one that I wouldn't hesitate to recommend to anyone wanting a reliable, no nonsense bike. I also wouldn't hesitate to ride one if I had one in the garage. I loved the engine, and also had a SV650s that I rode cross country and back loaded up. Although the engine was a little more "fun" in the SV, I think it is a great engine in the DL. It was clunky offroad, and felt cheaper. I think the reason it felt cheaper was all the plastic, and the crappy bars.

I can only afford to have one bike in the garage at a time so I went with the one that "spoke" to me, which is what I would suggest anyone to do. Every bike has quirks, but most if not all can be worked out over time and with a little cash. Seats, suspension, windshields, etc... are all personal and most riders end up playing around with those things to get them right. The Triumphs that I have owned have all been as reliable as any of the Japanese bikes that I have owned. The only time I have been stranded on the side of the road, other than running out of gas, is been with a BMW and an Aprilia. If you follow the man. service intervals to a T, the Yamaha is going to be the cheapest. The Triumph and Suzuki have similar or the same intervals. I have a great Triumph dealership not far from me, the parts and accessories that are not in stock come in within a few days based on my experience. I have yet to add anything to the 800 yet so I don't know if it's the same or not.

If you can get a test ride on all the bikes, I'd go for it and let my grin pick the one for me.

Good luck.
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