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Old 11-03-2013, 06:44 AM   #1816
Norhasken
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Pretty boring stuff today. Kimster going out on the first lap didn't help much.

I do enjoy how socialism reaches all aspects of European life, including rationalizing Kimi's "need" for funds.
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Old 11-03-2013, 07:07 AM   #1817
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oh bugger....
what a snooze fest

congrats Seb we get to hear your voice on the radio once again
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Old 11-03-2013, 10:39 AM   #1818
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i feel like recording that race just put extra wear and tear on my dvr for no particular benefit.
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Old 11-03-2013, 11:29 AM   #1819
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Lol
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Old 11-03-2013, 01:57 PM   #1820
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Originally Posted by Paebr332 View Post
So failing to honor a contract because the other party is a millionaire is okay in your book?
Did I say that?

I'm truly sorry that you seem to have read my reply to Sid as suggesting that what Renault have done is "okay". Not owing to the upset it seems to have caused you but because your comprehension skills are so poor.
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Old 11-03-2013, 04:44 PM   #1821
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Originally Posted by A. T. T-W View Post
He got his money last year once the points bonus to teams had been tallied-up. There's no reason to believe that Lotus would not do the same again - if they did default, the resulting bad PR would be very much worse than delaying payment to a multi-millionaire.

He's off to Ferrari. He's pissed-off that Lotus didn't give him a car that permitted him to win another championship. At best it's an exercise in destabilising what will be a competitor team next season, at worst it's just churlish behaviour.
Unless his contract calls for him to be paid at the end of the season -- and it obviously doesn't -- then Lotus is dealing in bad faith.

Why is there no reason to believe that Lotus wouldn't stiff him? Bad publicity? How do they look right now?

Lotus is a team whose funding does not match their ambitions. It's perfectly reasonable to suspect that they may fail: they have hardly been the model of financial probity. And Kimi knows the integrity of the men who run Lotus, better than you or I.

And if Lotus fails, then Kimi doesn't get his money. He wants it now, while he has leverage and Lotus is extant.

That's not churlish. It's eminently sensible.
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Old 11-03-2013, 05:49 PM   #1822
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Cool2 Out!

He should have thrown on a Ferrari shirt. Or at least a James Hunt t-shirt.

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Lol
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Old 11-03-2013, 06:04 PM   #1823
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Originally Posted by wxwax View Post
Unless his contract calls for him to be paid at the end of the season -- and it obviously doesn't -- then Lotus is dealing in bad faith.

Why is there no reason to believe that Lotus wouldn't stiff him? Bad publicity? How do they look right now?

Lotus is a team whose funding does not match their ambitions. It's perfectly reasonable to suspect that they may fail: they have hardly been the model of financial probity. And Kimi knows the integrity of the men who run Lotus, better than you or I.

And if Lotus fails, then Kimi doesn't get his money. He wants it now, while he has leverage and Lotus is extant.

That's not churlish. It's eminently sensible.
Bollocks. He, nor you, have any evidence that they will default, they didn't last year and few would have known about this year's issues had Raikkonen not felt that he had to offer public justification for his move to Ferrari.

How much worse could it be for Lotus? Much, much worse. If they default by choice they will never survive. They'd lose any legal action and they'd lose sponsorship.

If they default because the team fails financially, it won't matter.

What he has done is to increase the chances of their failure. He's undermined whatever confidence investors had. It's the act of someone who has sufficient, has a new contract and couldn't give a fuck for the livelihoods that he's putting at risk.

Lotus are not without fault but Raikkonen needn't have acted the way he has.
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Old 11-03-2013, 06:11 PM   #1824
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Originally Posted by A. T. T-W View Post
Bollocks. He, nor you, have any evidence that they will default, they didn't last year and few would have known about this year's issues had Raikkonen not felt that he had to offer public justification for his move to Ferrari.

How much worse could it be for Lotus? Much, much worse. If they default by choice they will never survive. They'd lose any legal action and they'd lose sponsorship.

If they default because the team fails financially, it won't matter.

What he has done is to increase the chances of their failure. He's undermined whatever confidence investors had. It's the act of someone who has sufficient, has a new contract and couldn't give a fuck for the livelihoods that he's putting at risk.

Lotus are not without fault but Raikkonen needn't have acted the way he has.
You really need to step back and reconsider what you are typing. You have gotten yourself vested in a silly position.

Kimi has fulfilled all his contractual obligations to Lotus this season and they have failed to pay him. There is only one party at fault here.
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Old 11-03-2013, 07:24 PM   #1825
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. T. T-W View Post
Bollocks. He, nor you, have any evidence that they will default, they didn't last year and few would have known about this year's issues had Raikkonen not felt that he had to offer public justification for his move to Ferrari.

How much worse could it be for Lotus? Much, much worse. If they default by choice they will never survive. They'd lose any legal action and they'd lose sponsorship.

If they default because the team fails financially, it won't matter.

What he has done is to increase the chances of their failure. He's undermined whatever confidence investors had. It's the act of someone who has sufficient, has a new contract and couldn't give a fuck for the livelihoods that he's putting at risk.

Lotus are not without fault but Raikkonen needn't have acted the way he has.

Are you insane ?
It's all speculation of course but if Kimi has a contract to get paid During the season and he's gone unpaid it sounds like a deal Lotus never should have signed if they had no ability to pay him in a timely manner. If they were counting on future sponsorship shame on them.
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Old 11-04-2013, 06:14 AM   #1826
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Bluhduh He's wearing their Shirt~~~!!!

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Lol
Okay Kimi, now you go storming out like your pissed and show up late in 2 weeks for Austin, oh and Bernie said you should make a statement about how much you will be looking forward to driving the Ferrari next year.





F1 needs some drama to talk about, the snooze fest of a race, both championships so wrapped up that SV could get out and take a dump on Start/Finish line and still not loose enough points to give the championship away.

F1 needs to stop letting the teams dictate who wins the race.

See you in Austin in a week and a Half!!!!
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:00 AM   #1827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. T. T-W View Post
Bollocks. He, nor you, have any evidence that they will default, they didn't last year and few would have known about this year's issues had Raikkonen not felt that he had to offer public justification for his move to Ferrari.

How much worse could it be for Lotus? Much, much worse. If they default by choice they will never survive. They'd lose any legal action and they'd lose sponsorship.

If they default because the team fails financially, it won't matter.

What he has done is to increase the chances of their failure. He's undermined whatever confidence investors had. It's the act of someone who has sufficient, has a new contract and couldn't give a fuck for the livelihoods that he's putting at risk.

Lotus are not without fault but Raikkonen needn't have acted the way he has.
They haven't paid him for an entire year. The team's existence seemingly rests on their ability to close a sponsorship deal which has been twisting in the wind for weeks, if not months.

What is there in that scenario which gives you so much confidence that they can meet a $15 million tab?

Would you trust an outfit which is struggling for money and which has, for the second consecutive year, failed to meet its contractual obligations to you?

I suspect not. Nor does Kimi, and I don't blame him. Your explanation for his actions, that he's bitter about his car and looking to spank the team, is silly. No need to invent a scenario when the plain facts speak for themselves.
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:05 AM   #1828
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Are you insane ?
It's all speculation of course but if Kimi has a contract to get paid During the season and he's gone unpaid it sounds like a deal Lotus never should have signed if they had no ability to pay him in a timely manner. If they were counting on future sponsorship shame on them.
This, 100%.

They're basically asking Kimi to trust that they can close this new sponsorship deal. If they fail to do so, presumably they won't have the money to pay him what he is owed.

They've enjoyed the free services of a top driver all season long. And somehow he's the bad guy when he demands what his contract says he is owed?
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:10 AM   #1829
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damn... Kimi's only scored 62% of the team's points so far this year.. He is slacking....
Last year he scored 68% of the team's points.

If Lotus think they'd be attracting a sponsor (any sponsor) w/o a top driver they are sadly mistaken.

I think if Lotus get Maldo-a no-go next year (and all his millions) they will get exactly what they deserve...

Of course it is a whole new formula next year so who knows what will happen.
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:41 AM   #1830
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better money management.. just like any business

Quote:
F1 teams need to learn to manage their money, says BBC's Gary Anderson

If Lotus, fighting to be second in the constructors' race, can struggle financially, it shows F1 teams have to be less wasteful


Kimi Raikkonen of Lotus failed to complete F1's Abu Dhabi Grand Prix, but his team's finances had led to a dispute before Sunday's race. Photograph: Luca Bruno/AP



The Yas hotel, like some giant grey slug, looms over Abu Dhabi's Yas Marina Circuit, its slime trail made up of the hopelessly rich and fashionable, the show-offs and poseurs who had flocked to the area for Sunday's grand prix. There were even a few motorsport fans around the place.
There is sometimes a vulgarity attached to the great wealth in Abu Dhabi; Depeche Mode played here on Sunday night, but Liberace might have been more appropriate.
Formula One likes this sort of environment. This is the very pinnacle of motorsport and it is all about noise and glamour, riches and excess but wealth is not what they're talking about in F1 at the moment.
Lotus have managed to keep Kimi Raikkonen happy by shoring up their finances, for the timing being but the sport still returned from Abu Dhabi on Sunday night in a state of incipient crisis. If Lotus, one of the great names of F1, and fighting to be second in this year's constructors' championship, can find themselves in such a mess, what about the small teams?
Formula One is controversially run, partly because the two men who organise the sport, its chief executive, Bernie Ecclestone, and the FIA president, Jean Todt, are busy waging wars elsewhere. Ecclestone, 83 a week ago, is fire-fighting a number of cases, all linked to bribery allegations in Germany, a distraction that may ultimately lead to him losing control of the sport he has governed for 40 years. One started in London's high court last Tuesday. Todt is battling for re-election and has recently been cleared by the governing body's ethics committee of using unfair tactics.
Meanwhile, cash-strapped teams are fighting for survival as there is also a less than equitable distribution of money among the teams.
Some may view the teams as the poor, downtrodden victims in all this but not Gary Anderson, BBC F1's technical analyst and one of the most respected voices in the sport. Anderson told me in Abu Dhabi: "I think it's time teams cut their cloth accordingly, just as you would run a household budget. There is a bit of naivety among some teams. There is poor management on the financial side.
"You can't, as a team, say to Bernie or CVC [the private equity company that bought F1 in 2006] you want more money. You can't say: 'We are incapable of looking after ourselves, you've got to give us more.' Is that right? I don't think it is."
Anderson, who designed cars for the Jordan and Stewart grand prix teams, says: "Spending has to be controlled. I would control the bits you can change on a car. It won't stop teams developing but it would mean a lot less waste. At the moment teams are developing components to get on the car and when they don't work they get put in the bin.
"It's only because they're allowed to do it that quickly. If you said: 'OK, after every four or five or six races you can have an update on certain bits on the car,' then you would control that. Teams would have more time to research, there would be less wastage.
"Take rear wings. We have probably a different rear wing for most circuits. That's stupid. For me you go to Melbourne for the first race of the season, that rear wing like the gearbox would have to last five races. You will save bucket loads of money.
"And look at the wheels and tyres. In the pits, most teams will have 11 sets of slick tyres, all mounted, a couple of sets of intermediates, a couple of sets of wets, all mounted. That's 15 sets of wheels, tyres and tyre blankets all sitting outside a garage on a Thursday afternoon.
"The most you can use in one individual qualifying session is three sets of soft and three sets of hard. So that's six, plus a set or two of intermediates and wets. So at the most that 10, eight if you can get away with it. Those things add up. Over a season, a team could make a saving in the region of 10m, just through wastage and over extravagance."
Anderson doesn't let off the men in charge completely. He says: "The FIA needs to look at itself carefully because it is inflicting a huge cost on teams that are already struggling. Next year is going to be a nightmare, a big nightmare, an absolute minefield, because there are so many changes. The FIA needs to instigate regulations that limit the expenditure in development."
On Ecclestone, he says: "A few years ago Bernie would bang the desk and it would have happened but those days have gone. I don't know quite where they have goneto.
"I know Bernie is fire-fighting lots of other stuff but I don't know where the leadership has gone to. The business is no longer his to control. He's doing it for shareholders.
"There is a huge lack of leadership but the worst thing that could ever happen in Formula One would be to give it to the teams to run. Someone has to pull the strings because there is no way that 11 or 12 teams would agree to anything. They would all have self-interest in different directions and that would be a nightmare."
Perhaps Formula One really does need a dictator but time could be finally running out for the one it currently has.


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