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Old 03-24-2013, 09:51 PM   #466
wxwax
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Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
Don't know exactly who you mean by "he", but Ferrari is now saying that the decision not to pit was the team's, not Alonso's. As it should be, as the team has access to the TV feed and can assess the damage much more precisely than the driver. And given how that wing was so badly damaged, I don't see how they could have thought it was good for another lap; he was lucky to make it around the track once.

- Mark
By "he" I mean Alonso. And by "to blame" I mean he ran into another car on his own.

Therefore he is to blame.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:07 PM   #467
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Three cheers for Vettel.

It's high time somebody said fuck you to team ordered finishes.

If only Webber and Rosberg did the same.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:09 PM   #468
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Originally Posted by ricmachado View Post
Massa - was he there today??
Massa had a slippery start and lost a lot of positions.

You'll notice he finished 5th -- I believe that's where he was after the first set of corners. In between he had a bit of up and down. I think he had a good race. At the start he got caught in traffic on a slippery track. Credit to him for bringing the car through that undamaged, unlike his more illustrious teammate.

Frankly, without looking at lap times, I'd say the Ferrari was extremely competitive, which bodes well for the future.

Vettel is a little spoiled prick. First, he speaks arrogantly and dismissively about his teammate over the team radio. Then he hits him with a sucker punch. With the team ordering Vettel and Webber to cruise and save the car to make sure they score maximum points, the little prick darts by him and steals the race.

I respect his qualifying pace. But Sebastien Vettel is a dick. That was not a clean win. That was a steal. His daddy needs to give him a spanking.

I gotta say the improvement by Mercedes is incredible. Very impressive. And unlike Vettel, Rosberg held his position and made sure both cars came home with legal fuel.

I understand why people get frustrated with team orders when a leader steps aside for a second place car. But when both cars are told to hold their positions in order to make sure they survive the race, it seems to me that's another matter entirely.

Vettel is a prick. Hope I made that clear.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:12 PM   #469
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Originally Posted by HoneyBunz View Post
Three cheers for Vettel.

It's high time somebody said fuck you to team ordered finishes.

If only Webber and Rosberg did the same.
That would be fine if there wasn't a limit on the number of engines you can run, if there wasn't a penalty for changing transmissions, and if there wasn't a limit on how much fuel you must have left in your tank at the end.

Saving the cars and the fuel are legitimate concerns. All teams dial it back at the end of races. And for good reason.

Vettel, being a dick, sucker punched his teammate when he knew Webber was dialed back and not running hard.

No honor.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:17 PM   #470
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Originally Posted by HoneyBunz View Post
It's high time somebody said fuck you to team ordered finishes.
Why do you think it was sent in code?


I'm glad we're all agreed that he's indeed a dick. Truly a dick.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:21 PM   #471
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Hey WXWAX, What do you think of Vettel?
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:30 PM   #472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wxwax View Post
Vettel, being a dick, sucker punched his teammate when he knew Webber was dialed back and not running hard.

No honor.
Agreed completely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by overlandr
I'm glad we're all agreed that he's indeed a dick. Truly a dick.


I'm finding it really sad that the tires have added this "drive to a time" aspect to the racing, and that drivers cannot just go as hard as they dare...at least for a good portion of the race.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:34 PM   #473
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Vettel did the only honorable thing. He won the race without causing any physical damage to anyone.
He challenged the supreme powers and all their loyal minions.
What he did is good for racing.
I'm certain Rosberg agrees with this. He was very close to telling Ross Brawn to go fuck himself as well. Too bad for us RB won that fight.
Anyone that supports team ordered finishes is no race fan.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:38 PM   #474
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Originally Posted by HoneyBunz View Post
Anyone that supports team ordered finishes is no race fan.
Anyone who passes a teammate whom he knows is under direct orders to not race hard, is a dick. Or a prick. Take your pick. Dick? Or prick?

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Old 03-25-2013, 02:04 AM   #475
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A large proportion of the F1 viewing world spent years in a vacuum in space screaming as MS kept on winning championships year after galling year. Despite some outrageous incidents which were caused by MS, he got the support of the authorities and his team. Let us hope that F1 never heads in that direction again.

Ideally there would be no race orders. He who pays the piper..... hence, there are due to the constructors championship.

I saw an interview with SV yesterday that appeared to indicate he may not have been aware of the Multi 21 instruction and its cruise to finish meaning. Anyone else see it?
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Old 03-25-2013, 02:10 AM   #476
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The word 'team' keeps coming to mind. Look at any team endeavor and there it is: if you're not the boss, then do what the boss wants you to do. If you're not happy with that, go elsewhere. F1 is so complicated that pure racing is no longer part of it.
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Old 03-25-2013, 02:41 AM   #477
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Vettel is like the fat and ugly nerd turned popular prom queen. Humility and respect go out the window when it comes to the gold. I can't respect a person like that, and wouldn't call it very sportsman-like.

The look on his face when Webber walked in the room was pure gold, like a scared dog.
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Old 03-25-2013, 02:54 AM   #478
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Originally Posted by RTLover View Post
The word 'team' keeps coming to mind. Look at any team endeavor and there it is: if you're not the boss, then do what the boss wants you to do.
Interesting comment from John Watson on BBC radio just now. To paraphrase: "Horner has no option other than to suspend Vettel for at least one race. Fining him isn't really a sanction. Horner has to show Vettel who is the Team Principal."

Quote:
Originally Posted by RTLover
F1 is so complicated that pure racing is no longer part of it.
It never really has been about "pure" racing. Granted that it might have been "purer" at some stages in the dim and distant past but for all those who hark back to a mythical past where team orders didn't exist I'd refer them to the fact that Fangio took over his team-mate's car on three occasions, the last time taking it from Peter Collins who could have won the championship in that race (the shared points meant that Fangio won the 1956 championship and Collins came second).

The only real change is that today we get to hear fractions of the plan. We don't know how often Webber complied with team orders to help Vettel to his three championships. Webber's attitude suggests that it has happened and the thing that's annoyed him is that Vettel was content to accept orders when it benefited Vettel (that public demonstration is perhaps why Vettel felt constrained to apologise).
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:06 AM   #479
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Originally Posted by wxwax View Post
Massa had a slippery start and lost a lot of positions.

You'll notice he finished 5th -- I believe that's where he was after the first set of corners. In between he had a bit of up and down. I think he had a good race. At the start he got caught in traffic on a slippery track. Credit to him for bringing the car through that undamaged, unlike his more illustrious teammate.

Frankly, without looking at lap times, I'd say the Ferrari was extremely competitive, which bodes well for the future.
Massa had a very bad race as always, I cannot understant how he can stay at Ferrari being a laousy 2nd driver. Was he afraid of Alonso from the get go and did a bad start to make sure his team mate got his position right away, and doing that he let others pass him as well?

I think that even for a second driver he isn't the best out there.

(and I'm from Sao Paulo, BR just like him)
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:10 AM   #480
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I'm glad we're all agreed that he's indeed a dick. Truly a dick.
He did what many others would like to do, if he ran out of gas for not listening the team would be on his A$$ right now, but at the end of the year, if he wins the WDC for less than 6 points advantage, everyone will say he did the right thing.

Maybe the team order should be just like, please keep both cars into the race, do not repeat the accident from few years ago.

I still like Vettel much better that Alonso,
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