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Old 03-25-2013, 01:10 PM   #496
WildAnCrazymtl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzybraza View Post
YES! Unfortunately! In a world without dignity, honor or anything good, it is all that matters! Sad but true!

The guy already has 3 crowns and he will become more and more like Michael Schumacher as time goes by. I don't see this as a bad thing!

Greed, disrespect, betrayal, arrogance, etc....
Viva Vettel! Lets step on everyone to get that 4th crown! Not the way I see things ...
Unfortunately that is the way the world works, large corperations and big government has been screwing the little guy for years to retain power and get rich ! I don't like it, but I can't do anything about it! I've tried bitching and complaining but it has'nt worked well for me so far!

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Originally Posted by wxwax View Post
It's difficult to rate drivers, because equipment is so important. True!

But right now I'd rate Vettel as 3rd best. I'd put Alonso and Hamilton ahead of him.

Vettel has never had a bad car. I can't see him doing what Alonso did with last year's dog of a Ferrari.
Seriously... 3rd best... really... come on man! I get you don't like Vettel and that's ok... But those two cry babies, come on man! I never liked Senna but the man could drive!

As for what Alonso did last year in the Ferrari... He did not win, even I can do that
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Old 03-25-2013, 01:13 PM   #497
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'Ruthless to the point of immorality'

ESPN Staff
March 25, 2013 The front page of the sports supplement in Monday's Daily Telegraph The Daily Telegraph



Sebastian Vettel's decision to disobey team orders and win the Malaysian Grand Prix has ensured Formula One is splashed across the back pages of today's newspapers.
The common theme running throughout the headlines is one of war, with 'Red Bull at war' (The Telegraph), 'Webber and Vettel at war' (The Guardian) and 'Red Bull duo in civil war' (Daily Mail) added to by 'Truce over as Webber fumes at Vettel's grand theft' (The Independent) ando 'Vettel victory out of order for Red Bull' (The Times).
It's in the editorial comment, however, where Vettel's reputation is picked apart.
"There is the team order and then there is the double-cross. One was given and disobeyed yesterday as Sebastian Vettel showed a side of his character that defied the cuddly, cheery image of the sport's youngest three-times world champion," wrote Kevin Eason in The Times.
"You expect a man as young as Vettel to have a backbone of steel to have been so successful at the age of 25. But he exposed himself as ruthless to the point of immorality as he defied his Red Bull team and jumped Mark Webber, his team-mate, for the victory in Malaysia.
"There was plenty of contrition afterwards and the usual extrovert language to underline his apology. "I f***ed up," Vettel told a packed press conference. By then, he had collected his winner's trophy and banked the 25 points that took him into the lead in the World Championship standings. He will not be that sorry if he is champion for the fourth time in November."
David Tremayne in The Independent said it was as much Vettel's actions after the race which were poor.
"Immediately afterwards, [Vettel] explained that it was not until he and Webber were in parc ferme prior to the podium celebrations that he realised he had committed a cardinal sin. But that's where his post-race damage limitation strategy was revealed as duplicitous subterfuge."
"An apology was the right and humble thing to do. But the truth was that we were already well aware even before he passed Webber that he was going against the orders of his team, because Horner was telling him to stop being silly and to back off. And once the deed was done, Horner warned him that he had plenty of explaining to do. So he knew full well what he had done, and the suggestion that he hadn't acted deliberately but had "made a mistake," was risible.
"His conduct was unbecoming, the petulant act of a man who simply wants to win at all costs."
In The Guardian, Paul Weaver said Vettel had "joined a dark list", adding:
"Even if the Malaysian Grand Prix does not herald the immediate end of the strained but highly successful Sebastian Vettel-Mark Webber partnership at Red Bull, it does represent a new fissure, deeper and more damaging than anything we have seen before. It has also changed the way we will view Vettel.
"The German's greatness as a driver was already assured when, last year, he became only the third driver to win three successive world championships. But on Sunday, by ignoring team instructions from his employer, Christian Horner, and choosing instead to chase down Webber to secure his 27th win, he also joined another, darker list.
"We can now count Vettel as one of the most ruthlessly single-minded drivers the cacophonous old circus has ever seen. Being in one club, of course, does not preclude membership of the other. Vettel merely moves in alongside Ayrton Senna and Michael Schumacher in that respect. Maybe the ruthlessness underlines the greatness."
Byron Young, writing in The Daily Mirror went as far as saying Vettel's "manoeuvre in the Malaysian Grand Prix was straight out of Michael Schumacher's book of world domination: utterly ruthless and morally reprehensible."
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Old 03-25-2013, 01:21 PM   #498
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Originally Posted by WildAnCrazymtl View Post
As for what Alonso did last year in the Ferrari... He did not win, even I can do that
Do you follow F1? Not being mean, but it's odd you don't know who won this very same race last year.


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Old 03-25-2013, 01:28 PM   #499
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Originally Posted by wxwax View Post
Do you follow F1? Not being mean, but it's odd you don't know who won this very same race last year.


I think he meant the WDC, not the race...
at least that's how I read it....

damn this is the most excitement we've had in this thread since.... last year?
I guess three weeks to china will go by just like that

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Old 03-25-2013, 01:32 PM   #500
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The big winner this weekend: Bernie.

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Old 03-25-2013, 01:36 PM   #501
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The big winner this weekend: Bernie.

Bernie always wins....it's in the fine print.
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Old 03-25-2013, 01:38 PM   #502
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Originally Posted by geg View Post
I think he meant the WDC, not the race...
at least that's how I read it....

damn this is the most excitement we've had in this thread since.... last year?
I guess three weeks to china will go by just like that

Yes that is what I meant... lollllllll

And your right! Great fun as long as everyone stays civil!

Three weeks will go by quick if you keep posting interessting stuff to stir thr pot...
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Old 03-25-2013, 01:45 PM   #503
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in depth analysis of the post race....

I am laughing my ass off at work


LINK


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Old 03-25-2013, 01:46 PM   #504
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I really like Mark Webber but it's time to put up or shut up. He needs to stop whining about not being treated as a equal within the team and start taking what he can. He's in a tough spot with one of the best, if not the best car, but within a team that is blatantly not catering to him as a driver, however, the bitching and moaning about it doesn't propel one to the front.

Hopefully what this translates into is a renewed sense of purpose for Webber as every driver's primary duty from day one is to beat their team mate. Vettel has done that handily, let's hoping Mark drops the kindly Aussie routine in favor of a fool me once, shame on you (this race), fool me twice and we'll both be walking back to the pits, strategy for the remainder of the season. Let's face facts, what does he have to lose, no way he drives with Red Bull after this season anyway.
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Old 03-25-2013, 01:46 PM   #505
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Vettel did not hurt his team. Red Bull finished 1-2. It doesn't get any better than that.

Rosberg's situation was the same. His team would still finish 3-4 if he passed Hamilton.

So any arguments about constructor money are null and void.

Horner and Brawn both made bad calls. They deserve to have bad orders questioned. Both were trying to cover their ass from risky decisions they had made, at the expense of others.

Perhaps there is a place for team orders in the final races of the season.

Vettel and Rosberg had valid points of view and deserved more trust than they were afforded. They were discounted and the sport suffered because of it.

After the race, the top 4 drivers looked like they were attending a funeral.
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Old 03-25-2013, 01:51 PM   #506
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The Real Housewives of Malaysia were definitely on display, and made for some nice end of race drama.

I think Hamilton and Rosberg are pretty closely matched, without an obvious number one at Mercedes (at least not yet), but Vettel is clearly the number one at Redbull. I can't imagine Vettel getting anything but a slap on the wrist, since, ultimately, Redbull the team got the highest points possible from the weekend.
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Old 03-25-2013, 03:39 PM   #507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geg View Post
in depth analysis of the post race....

I am laughing my ass off at work


LINK

A better photo

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Old 03-25-2013, 03:48 PM   #508
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In a highly tuned organization (any org, not just a racing team) that is focused on the win (or success in general), the boss's word needs to be gold and followed to a T. If there is dissension in the ranks, either of two outcomes need to be followed through on.

Sanction to the dissenting party (IE: Vettel is disciplined)

OR

A Change in leadership needs to happen. (All leaders make mistakes, but the team still need to support those decisions. If the decision is so bad that the team members cannot possibly follow along, that leader needs to go).

This will not end well otherwise.

A lot of people are saying Vettel is showing his true champion form and taking the win for himself. F1 is a little different from other team sports, where all the winning glory really goes to one driver (As opposed to say a Super Bowl or Stanley Cup, where the team shares the glory). These drivers CANNOT win with out the functioning of the team and that includes the other team driver.

If Vettel gets away with this action (or Horner is not replaced... but my personal view is Vettel stabbed the whole team in the back, not just Webber, so Vettel needs to be reeled in pronto), does that mean anything goes between team mates moving forward?

I just see it now... Similar scenario, but Webber saying "shag it" and taking them both out (with possible consequences on both drivers and the team's seasons).

Would make for entertainment though. :)
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:34 PM   #509
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I would have a lot more respect, ok some respect since I currently have zero, for Vettel if he nutted up after the race and said, "Yeah, I won this bitch. I'm racing for the driver's championship and I will not follow team orders if they tell me not to pass Mark."


Instead, by pretending he didn't realize he wasn't supposed to pass Mark, he proved what a twat-waffle he is.


Is it just me, or does Vettel look like a blond Justin Beiber??
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:48 PM   #510
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It'll all be forgotten once the next race is over. F1 lives on controversy otherwise it's nothing more than a specialized engineering exercise interesting only to the types that collect airplane and train numbers (so that accounts for us ).

Webber is paid many millions to suck it up. He'll get over it.
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