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Old 07-08-2013, 11:58 PM   #1336
wxwax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagofast View Post
I found it. It was Lewis and it was last year. I am still curious if the rule covering stopping on track and the litre of fuel for testing are different between qualifying and the race. Anyone?

http://badgergp.com/2012/05/maldonad...ualified-back/

Good question.
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Old 07-09-2013, 05:31 AM   #1337
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too soon to think about the look of the 2014 cars?



some changes coming

  • Front wing reduced front 1800mm to 1650mm wide
  • Nose tip centered at 185mm high
  • Front Bulkhead maximum height 525
  • Chassis height maximum 625mm
  • Vanity panels still allowed
  • Engines now 1.6l V6 turbo, Direct injection, fuel flow limited, 15k max RPM
  • Energy Recovery systems to add +150hp from Kinetic and Turbo harvesting
  • Race Fuel limited to 100kg
  • Gearboxes to have 8 forward ratios, those ratios are fixed for the season
  • Single central exhaust pipe exiting 17-18.5cm behind rear axle line and 300-525mm high
  • Last 150mm of tail pipe must point 5 degrees upwards
  • No bodywork behind the tail pipe axis
  • No lower beam wing
  • Space still allowed for Y75 winglet (monkey seat)
  • Top rear wing a little shallower
  • Minimum weight 690Kg
all snagged from Scarbs F1
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:46 AM   #1338
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Originally Posted by wxwax View Post
It seems to me that the Lotus suffers from the same problem as the Red Bull. Neither is a top speed car, they make their time in the corners. As a result, neither benefits from DRS as much as, say, a Ferrari or a Force India.

I feel that's why Grosjean wasn't able to pass Vettel despite being close for a number of laps. DRS simply didn't give him the help he needed, despite there being two DRS zones.
Kimi had pretty good showing on the DRS couple of times. Maybe Vettel used more KERS on DRS zones, got a better exit out the turns etc.. Lots of variables to hide the truth.

This is an interesting issue, as I think it is the opposite and both opinions are shared in the paddock. To find out who gets the most of DRS is impossible. I would imagine that the more downforce rear wing's top part produces, the more it benefits from opening DRS in terms of top speed as it deletes more surface area which causes drag and slows the car. When one opens a DRS in, for example, Hungaroring, the rear wing reduces in size drastically, where as a Monza rear wing loses only a little surface area when opened.

Last year in qualification when DRS was available at any place, Red Bull had the advantage on it as they tend to run more downforce on their cars. In QP they could have a lot of downforce from the wings (front doesn't affect top speed that much like rear wing does), and then open DRS on every straight. This was a win-win back then: massive downforce in braking and corners, then open DRS and you get good straightline speed without compromising the downforce. It isn't that simple though, but to get the idea behind it.

So with that and good pace overall, they use to run at the front all the time and therefore base their race strategy for this. Red Bulls were geared quite short to get maximum speed without DRS (as they were assuming they never use it in a race because they're leading). When they get in a situation to use DRS, almost every track the car was bouncing off rev limiter due to reduced downforce and air resistance. Some times this happened in QP too as the car is light. This caused them to look slow on DRS during the race.

Lotus seems to be going similar route as their car seems to work better the more downforce there is. Obviously the QP DRS rule has changed. In races they are usually one of the slowest top team in speed traps but get pretty competetive push on DRS like others, not the best but okayish. But to evaluate this is quite hard, as the extra speed from DRS depends on base setting of the rear wing which is different in every track and varies a lot among the teams. And some cars like Force India, Toro Rosso, Mercedes too seems to run lower downforce all the time and are bloody quick on straights even without the DRS. Maybe they use this strategy as they constantly race in mid pack where it is possible to overtake throughout the race and also makes overtaking them harder for others, and/or their cars perform better this way...
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:31 AM   #1339
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silly season silliness...

Quote:
Lotus confirms Hulkenberg talks

Webber's Red Bull seat, available in 2014, has generated a wave of speculation around drivers moves.
Tuesday, July 9, 2013







Nico Hulkenberg surely will race for another team in 2014.



July 9th, 2013 (F1plus).- Eric Boullier on Tuesday confirmed reports Nico Hulkenberg is a candidate to drive for Lotus in 2014.
That is because the Enstone based team is facing up to the very real possibility lead driver Kimi Raikkonen will switch to Red Bull.
We reported earlier that Frenchman Boullier, the Lotus team boss, is scheduled to sit down with Finn Raikkonen's management this week.
In the meantime, German Hulkenberg is technically a free agent, because - while he will continue to race for Sauber in 2013 - the struggling Swiss team reportedly breached contract by failing to pay him in May and June.
"I am in contact with Nico," Boullier, who reportedly also mentioned Paul di Resta, is quoted on Tuesday by France's L'Equipe.
Still, Lotus has not given up on retaining Raikkonen -- and the inimitable Finn might not like the sound of comments made on Monday by Red Bull's Dr Helmut Marko.
First, Raikkonen does not like his decisions rushed, and Lotus is prepared to wait for him.
But Marko said Red Bull wants to settle the name of Mark Webber's 2014 successor "in the summer".
"Budapest is the beginning of the summer break. Spa at the end. So it (the decision) will fall some time in August," he told Austrian television Servus TV.
Marko is also insisting Webber's successor make a long-term commitment -- something Raikkonen might also baulk at.
"It shouldn't be for only one year, but for the next three years," said the Austrian. "Continuity has distinguished us as a team."
Further, Raikkonen despises media and sponsor work, while rumours suggest he also likes to spend precious little time with his engineers.
Marko, though, wants Sebastian Vettel's next teammate to do plenty of "simulator work" whilst working "awfully hard" with the team's technical boffins.
"There are many criteria that must be filled," he added.
Presumably, Marko wants Raikkonen to truly want the Red Bull seat, rather than slip into the sort of top team-complacency that at Ferrari ended his first F1 career.
"We have plenty of choice," said Marko. "There is Kimi and there are many others -- almost everyone would want to be with us.
"We need two strong drivers, so you also can win the constructors' championship. The opposite is Ferrari, who put everything on Alonso and the drivers' championship.
"But we want both," added Marko.
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:41 AM   #1340
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Wow, that was quite the slap at Massa by Marko.
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Old 07-09-2013, 11:53 AM   #1341
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No kidding. Marko has always been a real jerk, enabled by other people's money.
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Old 07-09-2013, 11:54 AM   #1342
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Originally Posted by g容g View Post
[*]Gearboxes to have 8 forward ratios, those ratios are fixed for the season
Does this mean 8 sets of gears ratios?
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Old 07-09-2013, 12:04 PM   #1343
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Originally Posted by wxwax View Post
Does this mean 8 sets of gears ratios?
there's some debate about this...
if the 8 gear ratios is fixed then the final drive ratio would surely need to change.
otherwise if you designed the box for Monza, you'd not get out of second or third at Monaco.

Not sure I understand how they will implement this one.
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Old 07-09-2013, 12:15 PM   #1344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g容g View Post
too soon to think about the look of the 2014 cars?



some changes coming

  • Front wing reduced front 1800mm to 1650mm wide
  • Nose tip centered at 185mm high
  • Front Bulkhead maximum height 525
  • Chassis height maximum 625mm
  • Vanity panels still allowed
  • Engines now 1.6l V6 turbo, Direct injection, fuel flow limited, 15k max RPM
  • Energy Recovery systems to add +150hp from Kinetic and Turbo harvesting
  • Race Fuel limited to 100kg
  • Gearboxes to have 8 forward ratios, those ratios are fixed for the season
  • Single central exhaust pipe exiting 17-18.5cm behind rear axle line and 300-525mm high
  • Last 150mm of tail pipe must point 5 degrees upwards
  • No bodywork behind the tail pipe axis
  • No lower beam wing
  • Space still allowed for Y75 winglet (monkey seat)
  • Top rear wing a little shallower
  • Minimum weight 690Kg
all snagged from Scarbs F1
Sounds like restrictor car racing
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Old 07-09-2013, 12:29 PM   #1345
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Originally Posted by wxwax View Post
No kidding. Marko has always been a real jerk, enabled by other people's money.
Especially considering that Massa in 26 fewer starts has two more wins (though one less podium) than does Webber. Massa has averaged 4.2 points per start with Webber at 4.5 over their F1 careers. Massa helped Ferrari win back-to-back championships as a number two driver, while Webber has three to his name.

Those aren't big enough differences to shoot your mouth off about your superior startegy and driver selections skills.

After his injury Ferrari stuck with Massa hoping he would regain his prior form. That has not quite happened, but you need to give them some credit for loyalty. Marko would have walked away from Massa without a moment's hesitation.

Paebr332 screwed with this post 07-09-2013 at 12:38 PM
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Old 07-09-2013, 12:56 PM   #1346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g容g View Post
there's some debate about this...
if the 8 gear ratios is fixed then the final drive ratio would surely need to change.
otherwise if you designed the box for Monza, you'd not get out of second or third at Monaco.

Not sure I understand how they will implement this one.
I was thinking perhaps it means 8 different sets of gear ratios, to give them flexibility to deal with different tracks. Not sure why they'd set a limit, though.
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Old 07-09-2013, 02:24 PM   #1347
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Originally Posted by wxwax View Post
I was thinking perhaps it means 8 different sets of gear ratios, to give them flexibility to deal with different tracks. Not sure why they'd set a limit, though.
As I understand it, eight-speed boxes are going to be required in 2014 and the ratios from engine to wheels are fixed for the entire season, except for one mid-season change allowed (which then is unchanged for the rest of the season) to handle unexpected technical difficulties in predicting what ratios are best at the beginning of the season. In 2015, no changes after the season starts whatsoever.

The technical rationale is that with eight speeds and the new flatter torque curve of the turbo V6 (which has about a 5K RPM plateau in which the engine makes peak power allowing much larger gaps between ratios), it will be relatively simple to have a single set of ratios that will work satisfactorily for all the tracks in a season. At the slowest tracks, they'll use 1st-6th and at the faster tracks, they'll use 3rd-8th.

The reason for these limits? What else: Cost reduction....

- Mark
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:07 PM   #1348
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Thanks. Woe betide the team that gets it wrong and has to wait half a season to fix it.
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Old 07-09-2013, 05:57 PM   #1349
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Originally Posted by g容g View Post
too soon to think about the look of the 2014 cars?


The low nose tip is going make some interesting collisions.
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:07 PM   #1350
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Originally Posted by wxwax View Post
Thanks. Woe betide the team that gets it wrong and has to wait half a season to fix it.
I wasn't very clear.... when I said "mid-season", I didn't mean that there was a specific time midway through the season when they could change ratios - just one chance anytime in the season to make a change which they have to stick with the rest of the season. Theoretically, they could adjust the ratios after the 1st race. But only one time.

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