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Old 12-09-2012, 04:16 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by neduro View Post
Done, thanks for efforts.

Extremely disappointed to see some of the names on the list of supporting companies for the National Monument designation:

http://www.sharetrails.org/uploads/O...ion_Letter.pdf
Thanks for the support Ned, and thanks to everyone who has voiced their opinion and donated.

Please keep passing this around, we aren't going to get 1000 signatures, but 250 would be nice. I would like to get the letter and petition out to the retailers before Christmas.


Thanks guys,
Ben
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:12 PM   #62
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Take a longer second look

I would suggest that you all take a second look at the situation follow the money, then read AND understand U.N. Agenda 21.

It is all there for you to see if you just look, do your own homework .

This all started a long time ago & is part & parcel to the planed objective of whats to come, it's two steps FORWARD (remember that) & one step back.

It is started at the local level and presented as nothing more than a local issue, but is actually being financed by the larger faction whose agenda has nothing to do with the original issue, but the end result will be to their advantage.

Yes!! I am crying WOLF!!! and the big furry bastard is just outside the door.( Read my sig line)
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:58 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Scott450x View Post
That said: I would be willing to give up some riding area if it meant I didn't have to look at oil and gas rigs or deal with everything that comes with them. Moab is a beautiful place and to open it up to the type of drilling and fracking they are proposing just to keep some trails could be a real tragedy. Just my two cents...
I agree there's a balance, and it's something that isn't talked about much as the issue tends to polarize people into one camp or another (by design).

Not to increase that polarization... but there is already drilling in the area, just like there has been mineral exploration and mining for at least a hundred years. Half the trails we like to ride (and that they are trying to "protect") are mining roads from the uranium days.

I think it's a short term outlook to think it can only be OK the way it is today. We all, including the companies on that list, are reliant on an oil based energy economy. Half the companies sell mostly plastic products. To deny that and say "not in my backyard" is a hypocritical approach. The right answer is to manage in a intelligent way- not everyone will agree with every decision, but there have to be compromises. Oil is not only OK when it comes from Saudi Arabia or Nigeria.

Finally, one of my biggest objections is the process they are using. A change in land management should be done with public input and hopefully, ownership. A single signature national monument is ramming a potentially bad idea down everyone's throat... that's not how democracy should function.

It saddens me that we're struggling to hit 250 signatures on that petition. Where are all the people who love the kokopelli ride? Where are all the people who love to head to White Wash and ride in the dunes? We're our own worst enemy.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:03 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by neduro View Post
I agree there's a balance, and it's something that isn't talked about much as the issue tends to polarize people into one camp or another (by design).

Not to increase that polarization... but there is already drilling in the area, just like there has been mineral exploration and mining for at least a hundred years. Half the trails we like to ride (and that they are trying to "protect") are mining roads from the uranium days.

I think it's a short term outlook to think it can only be OK the way it is today. We all, including the companies on that list, are reliant on an oil based energy economy. Half the companies sell mostly plastic products. To deny that and say "not in my backyard" is a hypocritical approach. The right answer is to manage in a intelligent way- not everyone will agree with every decision, but there have to be compromises. Oil is not only OK when it comes from Saudi Arabia or Nigeria.

Finally, one of my biggest objections is the process they are using. A change in land management should be done with public input and hopefully, ownership. A single signature national monument is ramming a potentially bad idea down everyone's throat... that's not how democracy should function.

It saddens me that we're struggling to hit 250 signatures on that petition. Where are all the people who love the kokopelli ride? Where are all the people who love to head to White Wash and ride in the dunes? We're our own worst enemy.

Well said
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:12 AM   #65
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Why are motorized groups always on the defensive? Why aren't there groups working to have more areas opened instead of just battling to keep the current ones from being closed? You know the old saying...."the best defense is a good offense".

They are. Attending FS planning meetings, Public outreach meetings, writing comment letters, applying for grant money etc..

Often when others do not. One issue is that often these meetings and public input sessions happen during the work week, when the riding public is well, working.

Most pro-access groups have full time lobbyists and attnys working on capitol hill and in the courts.

But guess what. That costs money, and most of these groups are staffed by VOLUNTEERS. There is not enough money to fight the court battles, how can they pay full time employees to go on offense?

I'll post this AGAIN.

There are 3,000 members to COHVCO. 3k*$25 = $75,000 in membership dues

Lets just say there are 100 business members...@ $100 each = $10,000

So as long as we are dreaming big...lets pretend 500 members donate $100 each...$50,000

Now these numbers (except for the individual memberships) are currently a pipe dream. But we are talking well under $150k a year....for everything. All the court fees, lobbyist time etc...

It all costs money. The anti-access crowd has it, we do not.

Sierra Club spends more on postage than the yearly intake of most pro-access groups.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:25 AM   #66
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Just signed it ... there should be at least one more sig by now ...
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:31 AM   #67
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Ditto
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:16 AM   #68
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Signed.
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:12 AM   #69
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Thanks guys

Ben
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Old 12-10-2012, 12:20 PM   #70
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The petition link on the first page is no worky for me. Am I missing something?
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Old 12-10-2012, 12:26 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by enduro-ince View Post
The petition link on the first page is no worky for me. Am I missing something?
I just tried it and it works

Try this http://dubinky.com/index.php/compone...-test-petition

Anyone else having a problem?
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Old 12-10-2012, 12:42 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by COXR650L View Post
I just tried it and it works

Try this http://dubinky.com/index.php/compone...-test-petition

Anyone else having a problem?

Ben I had an issue where it would not take my email address. I used a seldom used Gmail addy and it worked

Rod
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:39 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by COXR650L View Post
I just tried it and it works

Try this http://dubinky.com/index.php/compone...-test-petition

Anyone else having a problem?


works for me now. Thanks.
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:49 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Rodzilla View Post
Ben I had an issue where it would not take my email address. I used a seldom used Gmail addy and it worked

Rod
Hey Rod, a few people have had that problem with the email and I really have no idea what it is. This is a petition extension for Joomla Webpages and when I was putting it together there were not many options, so this was about the best I could find.

I hope the email issue is not giving many people problems if so PM me.

Thanks,
Ben
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:15 PM   #75
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You do realize how many of the trails and roads motorcycle riders enjoy in the Moab area were created by uranium and oil/gas prospecting, right?
There used to be a capped wellhead right next to the road to Elephant Hill. I think it was removed in the late '80's.
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