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Old 12-10-2012, 03:20 PM   #76
Nailhead
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Originally Posted by Scott450x View Post
Everyone should be aware that part of the reason this letter was sent was to stop shale oil fracking and natural gas drilling in the area surrounding Moab. I think we can all agree that part of the appeal of riding in Moab is the incredible views and feeling of openness. It would suck to be passing gas wells and oil rigs on a ride.
I think we need to maintain our focus on the issue at hand, and not dilute it & the energy behind opposing it with tangents-- however well-meant.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:28 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by COXR650L View Post
Ya you are correct, I dont want to see this area over run by oil, but in some regards it is a necessity
It is a particular necessity in my case as it paid for the 990, and pays for the gas that goes in it.

That said, I would be horrified to see a rig in Chesler Park, or on Squaw Flat.

Anyway, back to protecting access to the surrounding area...
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:33 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by dmac1 View Post
I am in a rural area and we all have wells into an aquifer. There are many thousands of em. The oil & gas companies want to drill through the aquifer and go down deeper, THEN turn their bits horizontal for like up to a mile (so they could be right under our houses!!) AND ON TOP OF THAT they want to frack the wells! They have no real idea what will happen with their fracking and most of us have major concerns that they will ruin our water. Not to mention that they will use many million gallons of our scarce resource in the fracking process.
It's not the lateral (horizontal portion of the well) you need to worry about.

Watch "Gasland": it's by and large accurate.

Or maybe you shouldn't...
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:46 PM   #79
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I can't remember if this has been posted yet, but I figure there's no harm in posting a duplicate of a petition that might benefit all of us:

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...untry/s6BHJcKn
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:51 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Nailhead View Post
I can't remember if this has been posted yet, but I figure there's no harm in posting a duplicate of a petition that might benefit all of us:

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...untry/s6BHJcKn

Signed, although I doubt we hit 25,000 in 3 days
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:27 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by COXR650L View Post
Ya you are correct, I dont want to see this area over run by oil, but in some regards it is a necessity

That is when correct management by BLM comes into play and they need to properly manage the area so oil exploration is done responsibly. So far there is no indication they are going to let the oil industry over run the area.
I agree. The permits to drill right east of Arches were misguided because of the unique scenery there, but many places in central Utah can be drilled and developed with minimal visual or physical damage. And I don;t think fracking for natural gas is a problem because the required black shales are not too prominant in the region, and even then fracking can be done very safely, but can be unsightly because of the number of water trucks, etc. and the lack of water available for building up the pressures. The final scene of characters in this drama will be
1)offroad riders and drivers
2)petroleum drillers
3)real estate developers enabled by the State takeover
4)the super environmental movement Sierra/SUWA

Defeat 4} by pleading to the feds to not lock up the unique recreational region and a significant amount of energy needed by the US
Defeat 3} by joining any and all efforts to keep the State of Utah from dividing up the region for big ranches and private recreational areas. Utah residents will be most effective in this action.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:32 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Nailhead View Post
It's not the lateral (horizontal portion of the well) you need to worry about.

Watch "Gasland": it's by and large accurate.

Or maybe you shouldn't...
Gasland horror stories occurred where drilling was very near residential areas and even then the problems were related to poor cementation of the wells allowing high pressure deep water and gas to reach the surface along the outside of the drill pipe. I have researched this and the triggering of seismicity around the injection wells. Most areas will experience no problems and certainly in low populated areas like central Utah. The bigger problem is poor access to required injection water and the large number of vehicles required in the overall and long term process. I don;t think there is enough black shale in the 'monument' area to even worry about fracking. I think most of the Utah gas development using fracking is up in the northeast corner.
Here are the ponds required for fracking up along the White River area:

But fracking is not nearly as destructive as the development of oil shale which is undergoing a new 'boom' in Colorado and northeastern Utah, but probably not affecting central Utah.
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doc_ricketts screwed with this post 12-10-2012 at 08:39 PM
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Old 12-11-2012, 05:35 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by doc_ricketts View Post
Defeat 4} by pleading to the feds to not lock up the unique recreational region and a significant amount of energy needed by the US
Defeat 3} by joining any and all efforts to keep the State of Utah from dividing up the region for big ranches and private recreational areas. Utah residents will be most effective in this action.
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Old 12-11-2012, 07:46 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by doc_ricketts View Post
But fracking is not nearly as destructive as the development of oil shale which is undergoing a new 'boom' in Colorado and northeastern Utah, but probably not affecting central Utah.
Destructive? Yes, but maybe not primarily in the manner that is most obvious: I read a few years back it takes something like 10 bbl of oil to extract 1 bbl of shale oil.

Lots of carbon, particulates, etc., liberated in that idiotic trade-off.
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Old 12-11-2012, 07:51 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by doc_ricketts View Post
Gasland horror stories occurred where drilling was very near residential areas and even then the problems were related to poor cementation of the wells allowing high pressure deep water and gas to reach the surface along the outside of the drill pipe.
Makes sense except that the drill pipe is long gone by the time problems emerge; what you are talking about is the well casing, most likely the production casing.
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Old 12-11-2012, 07:54 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by COXR650L View Post
Signed, although I doubt we hit 25,000 in 3 days
They're really working the issue over at RZRforums, but it seems there is an alarmingly high percentage of people who feel any effort to oppose it is futile.
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Old 12-11-2012, 04:36 PM   #87
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SUWA just sent me this ... tempted to send it back telling them to suck it...how'd they get my name, I wonder...



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Old 12-11-2012, 05:42 PM   #88
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Makes sense except that the drill pipe is long gone by the time problems emerge; what you are talking about is the well casing, most likely the production casing.
Yeah I meant the casing, of course.
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:07 AM   #89
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You know, I never saw myself on the opposite side of a SUWA effort: I've read Abbey, I've mountain biked & camped all over the Canyon Country, and some of my very favorite landscape photos reside in a Sierra Club book on Glen Canyon.

I get protecting it, but I don't get-- I can't stand-- the prejudice involved in the assumption that just because I four-wheel or ride a motorcycle or side-by-side, I don't value the land, or if I do, it's not as legit as it would be if I was merely bicycling or hiking.

I've always retained this passage from Monkey Wrench as sort of a personal mantra: "oh my desert, yours is the only death I cannot bear". I still believe that, I just don't any longer believe all of it should be the exclusive domain of just one set of recreational users.
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:15 AM   #90
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You know, I never saw myself on the opposite side of a SUWA effort: I've read Abbey, I've mountain biked & camped all over the Canyon Country, and some of my very favorite landscape photos reside in a Sierra Club book on Glen Canyon.

I get protecting it, but I don't get-- I can't stand-- the prejudice involved in the assumption that just because I four-wheel or ride a motorcycle or side-by-side, I don't value the land, or if I do, it's not as legit as it would be if I was merely bicycling or hiking.

I've always retained this passage from Monkey Wrench as sort of a personal mantra: "oh my desert, yours is the only death I cannot bear". I still believe that, I just don't any longer believe all of it should be the exclusive domain of just one set of recreational users.
+1

We all get protecting the land, but in the process PUBLIC LAND is being taken away from a large percentage of responsible users. It is not fair that only select users get to enjoy and use public land. By definition this land belongs to all of us, yet to frequently a very select few end up with unlimited access, while excluding most others.
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