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Old 12-13-2012, 08:30 PM   #391
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Originally Posted by itsatdm View Post
I don't see anything stupid about low tech, any more than buying high tech bikes new. After your 9,000-$10,000 bike you will have to buy an expensive fuel tank.
expensive.
I think it's stupid to buy anything new, but that's just me.

And don't confuse "better engineered" with "high tech".

I had an 03 XRR and an 05 EXC, they used the same exact tech but were on a different planet as far as engineering and design goes.

The XRR was actually more expensive as well.

Perfect example of common misinformation that I try to clear up.

And who the fuck is buying 10k enduro bikes???? No one I know.
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:57 PM   #392
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Some fool had to buy them new or you would never have a used one to buy.

You have given me an opinion without one example of design or engineering superiority. I can't tell which one you think is best. You are not paying attention, neither one fits my criteria for a dual sport bike.

Assuming the KTM is the best engineered bike. What are the maintenance intervals? How much oil will it hold? Does it have a cushioned hub? Does it have a fan? What is its stator output in case I want to run lights.

I don't want to throw the dam thing in my truck, I want to ride from my house to Jarbidge Nevada.

At least I know the XR will do it, even if you have to kick start it and use 35watt light bulbs. That is assuming you beat the deadline for licensing a dirt bike in Ca.
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:30 PM   #393
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Originally Posted by Off the grid View Post

And who the fuck is buying 10k enduro bikes???? No one I know.
Well actually, in Australia the 450 class bikes are all in the $11 to $12000 region (RRP).

Some prices from one source (www.bikepoint.com.au) come in at...

Beta 450 $12,390
Husaberg 450 $12,995
Huski 449 $10,795
KTM 450 $12,795
RMX450 $11,990 (Unregisterable here, all the rest are road registerable from the factory)
WRF 450 $12,999
CRF 450 $12,990
KLX 450 $12,990
Sherco 450 $11,490
Gas Gas 450 $11,995

I have no idea if those prices include on the road costs, and some of them were listed as 11 models (Gas Gas and Sherco) so it is not 100% accurate but you get the idea.

As a guide, I get $21 an hour as a local council labourer, I was on $35 as a casual roller operator a few weeks ago, but $25 an hour seems pretty common for labour type work here.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:26 PM   #394
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Originally Posted by itsatdm View Post
Some fool had to buy them new or you would never have a used one to buy.

You have given me an opinion without one example of design or engineering superiority. I can't tell which one you think is best. You are not paying attention, neither one fits my criteria for a dual sport bike.

Assuming the KTM is the best engineered bike. What are the maintenance intervals? How much oil will it hold? Does it have a cushioned hub? Does it have a fan? What is its stator output in case I want to run lights.

I don't want to throw the dam thing in my truck, I want to ride from my house to Jarbidge Nevada.

At least I know the XR will do it, even if you have to kick start it and use 35watt light bulbs. That is assuming you beat the deadline for licensing a dirt bike in Ca.
My KTM was street plated when I lived in NY. Moved to CA 18 months ago. EXCs 07+ are street legal in CA.

And yes, the EXC could do your criteria easily, and leave you fresher, less tired, less beat up, and less prone to injury.

Thus, my point. This guy in anther thread nails my reasoning pretty well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duken4evr View Post
I had way too much fun on my '83 XL600 back in the day. There was something about that bike - nature of the power, balance point, whatever, but I could ride wheelies on that thing, literally for miles. Wheelied past the cops (didn't mean to, was not paying attention, as I was riding wheelie all the time) and rode over the median to get away (definitely on purpose - LOL), "fun" stuff like that. Amazing I never got thrown in jail. Rode it on the street, off road, everywhere, even up a flight of stairs. It had a Supertrapp on it and XR500 suspension from a blown up donor bike. Good times.



Regarding the DRZ400, I had one of those for years too. The only advantage the 350 had was it's 6 speed trans, and even that is an oddly spaced affair. The DRZ has far more sophisticated suspension that can be revalved and sprung to work well, especially on gnarly off road trails. The DRZ responds well to mods with really nice trail power and suspension for what it is (an inexpensive Japanese dual sport). I did not plod along slowly on the DRZ either, as a decent ex desert racer "Intermediate" level rider, a lot of KTM guys got irritable after getting dusted by the DRZ Went everywhere on that bike. It did not turn for diddly, but it could actually hammer whoops, much to nearly everyone's surprise. Thanks to Eddie Sisneros on the suspension. The man knows his DRZs. Despite being the fully legal "S" model, I rarely rode the DRZ on the street, it was all off road. Here she is, at 12,000 feet, in the rocky high stuff.




Since I don't ride it on the street except to connect trails, my current "dual sport" is a plated Husaberg '10 FE450. It is a sharp steering nimble and very strong running dream on wheels, albeit pretty much 100% dirt oriented. Be that as it may, the 'Berg has the KTM XC-W trans and it easily cruises at 65 mph. Easier than the DRZ did :) To be honest, I am a little older now (50) and don't really go faster on the 'Berg than I did on the DRZ. It is just a lot more capable and goes at a sporty trail pace with a lot less effort. Used to grab the DRZ and ride the hell out of the thing to get up to speed. The 'Berg demands respect as it will generate a hurricane of speed very efficiently. The actual speeds I am travelling are not too different, the feel of getting there is very different and the spiffy 'Berg has a tremendous amount of "headroom" which comes in handy now and then when I screw up. Not shocking I suppose.



Like everyone else, I would love to see Yamaha come up with a 6 speed 450cc version of their excellent WR250R. That would be a sweet bike. Would love to add a KTM 690 or a clean used Husky TE 610 to my collection for real dual sporting and local adventure riding. Oh well. Money always gets in the way. Got a fast street bike too, but there is something about a good thumper though. They are the essence of MC riding.

Favorite dual sport bike that disappeared? Easy one. The Rotax engined ATK 605. Never ridden one, but just looking at 'em, I know they are brutishly cool!
Note the red highlights. This guy obviously has ridden the gamut of bikes like many of us and ended up on a Euro bike, like many of us.

He points out that his riding style is not really different, but as we age the need/want for a lighter, more responsive, more power on demand, better engineered bike is something that we look for. Lighter weight, better suspension, ergos and brakes leads to a better riding experience with less frustration, less chance for injury, less fatigue. More fun, more miles.

And he also states, like I have stated in the past, that if Yamaha put out a 450 mated with the WR250R 6-speed tranny, around 260lbs street legal I would take a serious look at it.

But that haven't. And they won't.

It's easy to peg me as some sort of Euro troll that has a KTM tattoo on my cock, but the reality is I really just wanted the best riding experience for what I do, and until I took a chance on the KTM I didn't know there was any better than the XRR or DRZ.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:57 PM   #395
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I am aware the KTM 525/530 is street legal. You see them all over the place. They pass me on the trail. They go places I can't.


They are KTM's barely legal, hard enduro race bike with lights.

Lets get over how superior these bikes are in climbing goat trails.

They are a completely different class of bikes than a KLR. One you can you ride 3,000 miles of pavement and easy dirt and the other you put in your pickup.

Here is why I don't want to ride the 530 to Jarbidge Nevada.

The KTM does not have cushioned hub. A lot of pavement will likely damage the spline on trans or the gearbox. It has no radiator fan, do you know how hot it gets in Nevada in summer? The bike makes 150 watts of power at 7,000 rpm. 50watts at idle. There goes my heated grips. The bike holds 1.5 quarts of oil. What is the maintenance requirement? Doesn't sound like the owners even know. How about every 15 hrs of run time. I don't have room for all the damn oil and filters.

You can justifiably argue that you can fix some of that, but you seem to have a problem with others improving an old school bike. We are not preparing our bikes to race KTM 530's or any other dirt bike.

Speaking of Nevada:








See I managed that on an old school bike. Fastest off road gps speed was 84mph.
The last picture is Austin Nevada, 170 miles of hwy 50 to Reno. My butt was happier on my bike.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:59 PM   #396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsatdm View Post
I am aware the KTM 525/530 is street legal. You see them all over the place. They pass me on the trail. They go places I can't.


They are KTM's barely legal, hard enduro race bike with lights.

Lets get over how superior these bikes are in climbing goat trails.


They are a completely different class of bikes than a KLR. One you can you ride 3,000 miles of pavement and easy dirt and the other you put in your pickup.

Here is why I don't want to ride the 530 to Jarbidge Nevada.

The KTM does not have cushioned hub. A lot of pavement will likely damage the spline on trans or the gearbox. It has no radiator fan, do you know how hot it gets in Nevada in summer? The bike makes 150 watts of power at 7,000 rpm. 50watts at idle. There goes my heated grips. The bike holds 1.5 quarts of oil. Maintenance is every 600 miles on the engine and 900 miles on the trans. I don't have room for all the damn oil and filters.

You can argue that you can fix some of that but you seem to have a problem with improving an old school bike.
Absolutely. You can't compare an EXC to a KLR in any way other than they are both motorcycles. But you can use the analogies I posted with an LC4 640/690 or T610/T630.

Fyi my EXC had the KTM hardparts rad fan installed and ran heated grips, GPS and fan. The race battery didn't like it after a while, but it did it.
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:05 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by larryboy View Post
The KLR haters keep throwing around at the crank HP for their KTM's, Kawi rated the KLR at 48 HP at the crank.
Where? Even the new model is only 44 PS.

2013 KLR650 Specifications
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:16 PM   #398
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:23 PM   #399
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See you 'round the campfire,
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:25 PM   #400
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Originally Posted by GAS GUY View Post
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...postcount=3936

Hey, check this out.
Now here is a KTM guy that loves his KLR !!!! LOL !!
Yeah but geez, did you check out the list of mods? My 640A has done most of that and more (substitute the road racing for 3-hour cross countries, endurocross, beach racing etc) but it is damn near bog stock standard!
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:42 AM   #401
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Yeah but geez, did you check out the list of mods? My 640A has done most of that and more (substitute the road racing for 3-hour cross countries, endurocross, beach racing etc) but it is damn near bog stock standard!
Yeah, the main point of that link was that he was a guy that obviously had love for both the Ktm and the Klr, which I do also along with many riders.

Also, someone mentioned oil capacity on the 450.My 2009 450 xcw street legal only held like .6 or.7 quarts of oil.Not even a quart.And after about 60 hours it started using a little bit, so you have to keep a close eye on it.It always made me nervous.They call for piston and rings every 150 or 200 hours.If you look at the piston it has almost no skirt, very low profile, which I suspect adds to this.
But, I loved that bike.It was an adrenaline machine.It kicked ass like nobodys business, and it was carbureted.
My riding buddys 2010 Husaberg fuel pump gave up the ghost and left him in the Northern Michigan woods with like 25 hours on it.It also needed a injector a few days after he bought it.
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:52 AM   #402
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The guy loved his KLR, but also claimed he doubled the stock HP rating of the KLR and still gets 57mpg. Uh huh.


Double the stock HP? Most I have ever seen from a heavily modded KLR was 48 or 49 HP. The builder thought they might get a couple more with some additional tweaking...and that was with cams, headwork, pipe & a 705 kit. I doubt seriously a carb is gonna add another 20 HP. Hell, not even a smoothbore Keihin or Mikuni race carb is gonna do that.

I do love my pig, and the fact that it takes me everywhere I want to go and then some...and I can ride it there and back. It's simple. Dependable. Cheap to maintain. It has long range and good fuel economy. It's still a pig...a tractor.
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Old 12-14-2012, 05:43 AM   #403
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Originally Posted by East Coast Rider View Post
The guy loved his KLR, but also claimed he doubled the stock HP rating of the KLR and still gets 57mpg. Uh huh.


Double the stock HP? Most I have ever seen from a heavily modded KLR was 48 or 49 HP. The builder thought they might get a couple more with some additional tweaking...and that was with cams, headwork, pipe & a 705 kit. I doubt seriously a carb is gonna add another 20 HP. Hell, not even a smoothbore Keihin or Mikuni race carb is gonna do that.

I do love my pig, and the fact that it takes me everywhere I want to go and then some...and I can ride it there and back. It's simple. Dependable. Cheap to maintain. It has long range and good fuel economy. It's still a pig...a tractor.
No doubt,there may be a bit of exagerrating going on. LOL !!
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Old 12-14-2012, 06:36 AM   #404
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Originally Posted by East Coast Rider View Post
The guy loved his KLR, but also claimed he doubled the stock HP rating of the KLR and still gets 57mpg. Uh huh.


Double the stock HP? Most I have ever seen from a heavily modded KLR was 48 or 49 HP. The builder thought they might get a couple more with some additional tweaking...and that was with cams, headwork, pipe & a 705 kit. I doubt seriously a carb is gonna add another 20 HP. Hell, not even a smoothbore Keihin or Mikuni race carb is gonna do that.

I do love my pig, and the fact that it takes me everywhere I want to go and then some...and I can ride it there and back. It's simple. Dependable. Cheap to maintain. It has long range and good fuel economy. It's still a pig...a tractor.
On second thought, it might have been a 685 kit that gave 48 or 49 HP all tweaked out, and he thought he could get some more juice with a 705...
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Old 12-14-2012, 06:47 AM   #405
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It has long range and good fuel economy. It's still a pig...a tractor.
Yep, when I was a kid I used to do a lot of tractor work on the farm, sometimes using and old John Deere one-lunger. My KLR always reminded me of that tractor, LOL....
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