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Old 12-10-2012, 02:55 PM   #16
O'B
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean74 View Post
Hi Guys,
i really appreciate your support, but am concerned that this might be counterproductive. I have located the bike in Lima, customs do not have it yet. Am trying to find a legal way to get it out of the country, failing that i guess i'll consider other options.
Because of that, it might just be better to keep it under the radar for now.
thanks,
Dean.
! agree with Bananaman if you know where it is and who is holding it and it is not with customs you need to find the right person to bribe. A custombroker may be the way to go. They are all going to be getting a cut so I would be surprised if you got off as easily as $200. Be prepared to pay more a lot more but don't let them fuck you to bad. It not being in customs possesion after all this time is a sure sign an under the table deal is what they are waiting for. This is how things get done in the third world. When you do the transaction when it is all said and done be friendly and curtious hell even take the pricks all to lunch. This will get you an in if you ever need some special help before you get out of country.
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:33 PM   #17
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If you're in Lima now, I'd start by asking advice from the guys at Desert Sport racing(the Honda dealer in Miraflores). Likely they know someone who can help.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:07 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomroad View Post
! agree with Bananaman if you know where it is and who is holding it and it is not with customs you need to find the right person to bribe. A custombroker may be the way to go. They are all going to be getting a cut so I would be surprised if you got off as easily as $200. Be prepared to pay more a lot more but don't let them fuck you to bad. It not being in customs possesion after all this time is a sure sign an under the table deal is what they are waiting for. This is how things get done in the third world. When you do the transaction when it is all said and done be friendly and curtious hell even take the pricks all to lunch. This will get you an in if you ever need some special help before you get out of country.
Yup. That sums it up. If it has not gone through official channels yet, someone is waiting for a bribe. Or they're buying time, waiting for you to leave, so they can have a 950.

If you can't successfully bribe them for a reasonable amount, it's the latter. You'll have to threaten to call the police. Or actually call the Police. With luck, they'll get it out and your bike will be returned to you. You may have to bribe them after too. You'll still be stuck with bike in a foreign country with no papers. You may have to make a run for Bolivia to sign it in there and proceed to ship from any other country aside from Peru. I would not suggest Ecuador. (Border issues)

Factor in cost of shipping, penalty for over staying permit, fees, lawyers, cost of living while you're there, lost income etc. You may be better off abandoning a very expensive bike.
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:38 PM   #19
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thanks all

hello there,
well you did ask for pics, there are plenty more of them too... surgery in a clinic in the amazon is pretty gruesome, all in all i'm lucky to be alive, still having 2 legs is a minor miracle, but don't be put off by my little mishap, it can happen, and after over 100,000km around the world in some of the most remote crazy places it might just have been my turn to break something...

there are some options for exiting Peru, some more official than others...

wish me luck.

Dean.
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:00 AM   #20
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Two questions:

Where are you now?

Are you still in peru?


=============


if you are still in peru, do not call them, go there every day, personally!!
if they tell you erveryday "tomorrow" ( wich is typically latinamaerican ), be there the next day and ask him today?
if he says again "tomorrow" do not accept, ask him what he needs today to solve the prob?
fix him on his message.
do not be agressive but freindly + strong.


if you do not come ahaed ask for his boss or the person wich is reponsible.
same game again.


most probably some "bakschish" will help.


==============


if you are no longer in peru:
- go to your embassy and ask for help








lawyer should be the last option














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Old 12-11-2012, 07:46 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean74 View Post
hello there,
well you did ask for pics, there are plenty more of them too... surgery in a clinic in the amazon is pretty gruesome, all in all i'm lucky to be alive, still having 2 legs is a minor miracle, but don't be put off by my little mishap, it can happen, and after over 100,000km around the world in some of the most remote crazy places it might just have been my turn to break something...

there are some options for exiting Peru, some more official than others...

wish me luck.

Dean.
I would think given the severity of your mishap the folks at the aduana would work out an arrangement with you, legal or otherwise. You've been on the road for a while, surely you've acquired some negotiating skills by now. Use your injury to your advantage here.
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Old 12-11-2012, 10:58 AM   #22
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Lima peru

U.S EMBASSY ALL DAY LONG....

PEOPLE AT THE EMBASSIES ARE REAL FOLKS WHO ARE INTERESTED IN YOUR CASE AND HAVE EVERY CONTACT YOU NEED TO TAKE OF THIS ALBEIT, CUSTOMS, POLICE, OR WHATEVER....MOST PEOPLE DO NOT REALIZE HOW EASY IT IS TO SEE AN AMBASSADOR.

HE IS THERE TO PROTECT YOUR INTEREST AND WILL ASSIGN SOMEONE TO HELP.

LET US KNOW HOW THIS WORKS OUT.

EL STIGO

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Old 12-11-2012, 03:33 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by El Stigo View Post
U.S EMBASSY ALL DAY LONG....
I can't comment on the American Embassy in Peru, but I've been failed big time by US embassy staff when I really needed them. Keep in mind they barely ever leave the capital (if the state dept even allows them to) of whatever country they're posted in so they're often pretty clueless to the realities on the ground let alone how to deal with them. In this case you might have some luck, but I usually don't plan on counting on US embassies for any kind of help as they're often more clueless than the visitor in need of help and can often do more harm than good.
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Old 12-11-2012, 03:55 PM   #24
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embassy... huh.

As some worked out, I'm not from the US, and my own embassy isn't interested in helping me at all...

they just gave me a list of local lawyers and said good luck.

I think i have this under control now, thanks for your opinions, i'll post an update in another month or so to let you know how i fared.

Dean.
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:03 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean74 View Post
As some worked out, I'm not from the US, and my own embassy isn't interested in helping me at all...

they just gave me a list of local lawyers and said good luck.

I think i have this under control now, thanks for your opinions, i'll post an update in another month or so to let you know how i fared.

Dean.

Good to hear that you have it under control , I hope it stays this way until you get your bike back !!


Just a short comment to some of the other posts here:
I'm always surprised how many people without a real knowledge of our countries,culture or even language always jump to bribery as the only way to solve a legal issue . And on the other hand it's the same people always bitching about corruption in our countries . You guys are part of the problem, because corruption needs always two parties , one who takes and one who pays .
There definitely are situation where the authorities are out for a bribe (because they spotted an easy and weak victim) , but there are other situations where a law or regulation has been broken, for whatever reason. In these cases, there is always an official, administrative way to work it out . It might take longer as in the US, it might take different ways as in the US ...because it is a bloody different COUNTRY !!! If we are not willing to pay the price and take the sometimes difficult but legal way, than we not only will never get rid of corruption, but we also loose the right to bitch about corruption because we become part of it .
Different cultures, different ways !!!
As travellers and GUESTS in other countries we should always accept and respect the local way, no matter if we consider it wrong or right , it's just not our call to decide that .
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Old 12-12-2012, 07:42 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuateRider View Post
Good to hear that you have it under control , I hope it stays this way until you get your bike back !!


Just a short comment to some of the other posts here:
I'm always surprised how many people without a real knowledge of our countries,culture or even language always jump to bribery as the only way to solve a legal issue . And on the other hand it's the same people always bitching about corruption in our countries . You guys are part of the problem, because corruption needs always two parties , one who takes and one who pays .
There definitely are situation where the authorities are out for a bribe (because they spotted an easy and weak victim) , but there are other situations where a law or regulation has been broken, for whatever reason. In these cases, there is always an official, administrative way to work it out . It might take longer as in the US, it might take different ways as in the US ...because it is a bloody different COUNTRY !!! If we are not willing to pay the price and take the sometimes difficult but legal way, than we not only will never get rid of corruption, but we also loose the right to bitch about corruption because we become part of it .
Different cultures, different ways !!!
As travellers and GUESTS in other countries we should always accept and respect the local way, no matter if we consider it wrong or right , it's just not our call to decide that .
I agree with you 99%.

I've only paid one bribe in my life, on the Ecuador/Colombia border, and basically I had to, kind-of like coercion. Extortion. By the time I realized what had happened, it was too late in the day to call the embassy or, really, anyone.

I agree with you except in countries where the governments aren't so much governments as they are cartels.

I'm not sure about Peru's government. It seems more fractured and silo'd than most. It seems like bribery is part of the system- not that it's officially condoned, but more... infected.

Hopefully our OP gets his bike back and it all works out and no bribes need to be paid and no fines or levy's are too dear.

As for my personal experience with Peru corruption and US Embassy help: in Peru I was stopped more times than I can exactly remember. Maybe 5 times? And each time, the cops wanted US$200. At one point, during one of the last harassments, I managed to get my mother on the Sat phone, who got my sister on the cell phone, who got the US Embassy on her land-line, and then the Embassy guy told me exactly what to tell the cop about how if he kept on being a prick we'd be able to figure out a way to get his corrupt ass fired, or something like that that was basically speaking his language.

I had zero problems in Guatemala so I can't say anything about the cops or government and stuff.
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Old 12-12-2012, 07:58 PM   #27
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i spend about 1/3 of my time in nicaragua. corruption is the system there. wanna take the high road? good luck. most likely you lose.

short story: woman owns property, which has been in her family for literally close to 100 years--legally. finds one day that someone--a local--has committed fraud and put the property in his name. she sues. loses. appeals. loses. appeals to the supreme court. her lawyer gets a call from the clerk of the supreme court: "hi, if your client wants to win, please advise her to pay $75,000 USD. the court will overturn the case and the property will be returned to her."

not a single gringo or foreigner involved.

the legal systems in latin america have been and are broken. and while the US and other "developed" "1st world countries have their shares of corruption, for the most part, at least the legal systems work as a last resort.
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:59 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuateRider View Post

Just a short comment to some of the other posts here:
I'm always surprised how many people without a real knowledge of our countries,culture or even language always jump to bribery as the only way to solve a legal issue . And on the other hand it's the same people always bitching about corruption in our countries . You guys are part of the problem, because corruption needs always two parties , one who takes and one who pays .
There definitely are situation where the authorities are out for a bribe (because they spotted an easy and weak victim) , but there are other situations where a law or regulation has been broken, for whatever reason. In these cases, there is always an official, administrative way to work it out . It might take longer as in the US, it might take different ways as in the US ...because it is a bloody different COUNTRY !!! If we are not willing to pay the price and take the sometimes difficult but legal way, than we not only will never get rid of corruption, but we also loose the right to bitch about corruption because we become part of it .
Different cultures, different ways !!!
As travellers and GUESTS in other countries we should always accept and respect the local way, no matter if we consider it wrong or right , it's just not our call to decide that .
I don't think any of us are saying bribes are the only recourse. In fact, I quite clearly say this is a last resort. And I would bribe the Pope if it meant I could get my bike back. I was on the road in Latin America for almost 2 years and 45000 miles. I paid one bribe and it was at the fronterra in southern Bolivia/North Chile. I missed the turn off for the aduana (can anyone read that sign?) and didn't have enough fuel to make the trek back and return to the border so the official said he'd take care of my paperwork for $20US. That was an easy decision.
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:14 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by bananaman View Post
As for my personal experience with Peru corruption and US Embassy help: in Peru I was stopped more times than I can exactly remember. Maybe 5 times? And each time, the cops wanted US$200. At one point, during one of the last harassments, I managed to get my mother on the Sat phone, who got my sister on the cell phone, who got the US Embassy on her land-line, and then the Embassy guy told me exactly what to tell the cop about how if he kept on being a prick we'd be able to figure out a way to get his corrupt ass fired, or something like that that was basically speaking his language.
$200!!! What the hell did you do wrong for them to demand that kind of money? Maybe you meant 200 sols, even then that's out of whack.
I got stopped a few times in Peru and it never came to any money. But each time I was stopped it was for nothing, I knew it and they knew it and I would start right in yelling at them for harassing tourists and I'd aggressively shove my paperwork in their faces. Each time bystanders would stop to see what was going on. Each time the cops would quickly get rid of me and move on to the next patsy.
Lima seemed the worst, but if they are parked and simply try waving you down I didn't stop. I couldn't wait to get the hell out of Lima.

In Thailand the petty corruption is also endemic, but the game is played differently from SA. Each I've been stopped in Bangkok was because I did do something wrong, $10-20 sorts it out, and you keep smiling and don't raise your voice. It's a game for them, if you get exited you end up paying more.(I learned that the hard way)
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:00 PM   #30
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$200!!! What the hell did you do wrong for them to demand that kind of money? Maybe you meant 200 sols, even then that's out of whack.)
It was US$200. My Peruvian-spanish comprehension is perfect.

How to know when a Peruvian cop/bandito is trying to steal US$200 from you: he says, in spanish, "Pay me two hundred american dollars. I don't want Peru money. Pay me two hundred american dollars. What is that you're listening too? Is that the new iPod? Let me see it. How many songs can you fit?"

This happened four or five times... the first time was just west of the Panamericana, about half-a-day north of Lima. A little while later, I met a German guy with a side car and a broken hand. He told me (in German- my German comprehension is only maybe 50%, and probably less when I'm trying to understand a very, very angry man trying to tell me about highway robbery at the hands of men in uniform) that he had been robbed of US$200 about 100 miles north of Lima. Soon after that meeting, I was pulled over, and accused of nothing, and they wanted me to pay. This happened several more times, for at least 4, maybe 5 times.

For a while- maybe a couple of years? it was fairly common knowledge that the cops north of Lima were fucking assholes.

My one bribe was trying to get out of Colombia. I had exited Costa Rica on my US passport, and entered Panama on my Panama passport. Leaving Panama I asked Panama customs which passport I should use, and they said to go ahead and use my Panama passport. I asked the same question in Colombia, and they said that since I had an exit stamp in my Panama passport, it would be just as easy as anything to just use that one.

I didn't bother to check with anyone about visa requirements for Ecuador on a Panama passport.

When I left Colombia, I exited on my Panama passport.

When I got to the Ecuador immigration, they said I needed a visa to enter on my Panama passport.

They said I could not enter Ecuador on my US passport because I did not have a Colombia exit-stamp in it.

I went back to the Colombia immigration and they said I could not have a Colombia exit stamp for my US passport, because I did not already have a Colombia entry-stamp. They said I would have to go back to Bogota to get it.

Bogota was three days away, then three days back.

They said I could get the whole thing straightened out with the Ecuador consul, on Tuesday.

It was Friday.

Back at the Ecuador immigration, they really insisted that I had to get the right stamps.

Back at the Colombia immigration, the only guy there said he knew a way to solve the problem. He left the building and met me behind a tree.

I gave him US$50. I had tried to get away with US$20, but he was a better negotiator than I.

If I had had to wait until Tuesday, it would have cost me Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and Monday nights in a hotel.

Sure, the easy answer should have been to see more of Colombia for a few days, but at this time there were reports of trouble not far from Ecuador- trouble with FARC and shit that I didn't need. NOT THAT THEY WOULD KIDNAP ME. It was just an element of trouble I wasn't in the mood for.

Also, it was cold and wet.

So the Colombia immigration guy met me back in the immigration building. He stamped my US passport. I went back down to the Ecuador immigration building. They accepted my US passport.

I had planned to ride all of South America on my Panama passport, especially if I wanted to go to Brazil and Bolivia. Instead, I rode it on my US passport.
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