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Old 01-04-2013, 10:24 PM   #31
K_N_Fodder OP
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Excellent thanks Bob!

Not sure about your photo host, but posting from Smugmug is pretty easy... I basically right click on the photo and select "Copy Image Location". Then click the little mountain looking thumbnail (Insert Image) above, paste in the image location string, and hit return. Ahh here's the How To on photo posting. I always forget how to post vids and have to go back to the vid posting thread...
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Old 01-05-2013, 04:31 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by San Felipe Bob View Post

Here you go:

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Old 01-08-2013, 11:48 AM   #33
rotorhead511
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BatteriesBatteriesBatteries

This is my theory on a 24v 24ah system.

I have three 6v 12ah batteries I pick up from Guber Battery Supply for my girls modified power wheels Jeep.

Well they have a motorcycle now and no need for the power wheels so I was trying to figure out if they would work in the Oset. With three in series, 18v doesn't do the trick. But I used two 6v and one 12v, this still only leaves me with one set of batteries. I don't like this set up because of the difference in ah's.

Did some digging on electricity and took some measurement and four 6v,12ah batteries will fit.

So, hooking two batteries in series gives me 12v,12ah. With four batteries I have two "packs" of 12v,12ah. If I hook these two packs up in parallel I get one 24v, 24ah system.

Well is this safe you ask? The motor is rated for 24v, and 36ah so no issues there. Could I cross some wires, yup. Need to be careful on initial hook up. No issues with charging or dangers after that initial electrical spaghetti. And weight gain is about 4lbs so not extreme.

My conclusion is more than double the run time for a $13 battery, SWEET!

Anyone see any flaws in my logic?

http://www.batterystuff.com/kb/artic...-tutorial.html
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rotorhead511 screwed with this post 01-08-2013 at 11:49 AM Reason: Added link
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:54 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rotorhead511 View Post
This is my theory on a 24v 24ah system.
So, hooking two batteries in series gives me 12v,12ah. With four batteries I have two "packs" of 12v,12ah. If I hook these two packs up in parallel I get one 24v, 24ah system.

My conclusion is more than double the run time for a $13 battery, SWEET!

Anyone see any flaws in my logic?

http://www.batterystuff.com/kb/artic...-tutorial.html
Yes, you have a flaw: - If you hook the two 12v 12ah battery "packs" up in parallel - you will only double the current, not the voltage. you will have a 12v 24aH setup. Sorry.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:32 PM   #35
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Son of a gun, you are absolutely correct. I'll just end up with 12v 24ah or in series alone will get 24v 12 ah. Well it's 2 ah better than what I have and I'm reusing some batteries.

Thanks for the check, I thought I was on to something.



Quote:
Originally Posted by laser17 View Post
Yes, you have a flaw: - If you hook the two 12v 12ah battery "packs" up in parallel - you will only double the current, not the voltage. you will have a 12v 24aH setup. Sorry.
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:45 AM   #36
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Rear shock

Whist giving our "new to us" 16.0 a good once over I noticed the rear shock is not a happy camper.
What is the "hot" set up?
Thanks
SFB
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Old 01-11-2013, 07:56 PM   #37
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Grips

Pro taper grips are great!
Super slim
Slightly tacky
Yee haa
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:20 PM   #38
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After about a year of pressure to join you goofs I finally did it, so here is my first post.

I can confirm that running a 24V Oset on 36v works well. When I converted my kid's 24V 16" to Lipo we started with a 6s2p setup which gives 10 aH of around 24 volts. We found however that as the voltage dropped the bike lost a lot of power once we got below 24v. She had me changing batteries when we had only used 40% of nominal capacity.

6s of Lipo gives you 6X4.2V=25.2V hot off the charger which sounds great. However, you get 6X3.8V=22.8V when they are about dead. The 24V controller the OSet uses appears to get unhappy when you go that low.

My solution was to buy some 3s Lipos and add those in parallel. This gives a voltage range of 37.8-34.2. With this setup we found more power but also we could run the batteries as deep as I felt comfortable with and saw no power loss. I think that for a 36v bike you generally use 10s2p to get the same effect (2 five cell packs parallel, 2 in series for 42v-38v 10 ah).

As she got taller I got by for a while by swapping the handlebar stem out for something with more reach. This bought us about a year, but eventually she was just too tall for a 16" bike. The 20" Oset was about a year away at the time so what is an father to do? A gas bike wasn't really an option as those things are way too heavy for a kid and those little engines are a major pain to keep running well.

So I did the sensible thing. I built her a custom electric bike using a Gas Gas 50 as a donor. I will have to do a write up on that for this forum at some point. I ended up with a bike she loved. She named it "Sparky". It used a hub motor (no chain required) and came in about 15 pounds lighter than a gas bike. You can read the build write up I did for an e-bike forum here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/vie...hp?f=3&t=41746


Along the way I setup as an Oset dealer and finally got my hands on a 20" Oset. This thing is awesome! I just finished converting it to Lipo today. I invited my friend over to try it out. After many warnings about the extreme power of this bike, my friend made me turn it all the way up. He made it 20 feet before he looped it. I won't mention any names, but it ryhmes with Jim Nugan.

Some specs I collected along the way for your amusement:
Gas Gas 50 Boy: 103 lbs.
20" Oset with SLA batteries (stock): 91 lbs.
Sparky (with Lipos): 85 lbs.
20" Oset converted to Lipo (with stock capacity): 68 lbs.

16" 24v Oset run on 36v of Lipo pulls about 36v at 40a for 1.44 kW (even thoguh the motor is nominally rated for 650W)
Sparky runs 60v at 40a for about 2.5kW
20" Oset runs 48v up to 100a for 5kW but the gearing or controller makes it feel like way more than twice Sparky's power



I have heard from some friends and customers that the Lipo conversion is to much of a pain. It can be indeed. You need to be careful with them. You need to pull them out to charge them. It does take away the convenience of the normal, plug it in when you can and ride when you want thing. I got a tip the other day for a nice compromise.

Earthxmotorsports.com sells Lifepo4 batteries to replace SLA (selaed lead acid) batteries. Lifepo4 is a bit safer than Lipo (although my reading and experience has me convinced that Lipos are only dangerous if you don't pay attention). It is also just a tiny bit heavier and a tiny bit less efficient. However, they are still WAY lighter and WAY mroe efficient than SLA.They are also more environmentally firendly somehow.

These guys sell a direct kit for 12" and 16" Osets. The kit gives you new batteries and a new charger. The cool thing is that they have the BMS (battery management system) built into the battery. That is how they allow you to leave them in the bike and let you not worry about a fire from overcharging a cell or a failure from runing the battery too deep. I would think that they will have a kit for the 20" soon, but I am sure you could call them and they would put a kit together for you since the 20" is just one more battery. I have not tried it yet and don't know anyone personally who has, but it sounds like a great solution if you want to shave a ton of weight but don't want the hassle of learning Lipo. Let me know if anyone tries it out. It would make particular sense if you needed to replace your batteries anyway as the SLAs are not particularly cheap.
http://earthxmotorsports.com/product.../oset-36v-kit/

While we had the 20" out today we had my friend's kid try it (14 year old). He normally rides a Beta 125. On the 20" he was balancing it and hopping the front end no problem. He also threw down some nice 90 degree nose wheelies. He can't do any of this on his Beta. He can do it on his trials bicycle. He rode the 20" a lot like his bicycle. I guess that makes sense since it has the same wheels and tires and the weight is closer to his bicycle than to his motorcycle.

My daughter has ridden the 20" a few times now. Wheelies are the main thing we have been working on lately and this bike is kind of unleashing that skill. Especially after the Lipo conversion, the front is really light for her. With her 16" she had learned to move the front end over when she dabbed. With Sparky she lost that skill because the front had those huge forks and way overdesigned front brake (disc and caliper off of adult sized bikes) so she just didn't have the strength for it. With the 20" that skill is back just like what she used to do. She is 9 years old and I think this bike will work well for her for quite a while.

For the Lipo conversion I am using 4 six-cell packs of 5 ah each, 2 in series 2 in parallel (12s2p). I am using 6 cell packs because I have a bunch of them from the other projects. Also, I have not been able to nail down a max voltage on the new controller. This setup gives me 50.4v-45.6v. This makes me think that I might be back to not getting all the charge out of batteries before the bike slows, but people in Britain who did this report that it works fine. I figure that this means that the new controller is happier when voltage goes belwo nominal. We have not yet run through a whole charge so we will see. The next step up would be to add in some 3 cell packs but that would get my voltage up to 63v hot off the charger. I am 95% sure the controller would handle this, but I don't want to let the smoke out if I am wrong. I think that there are some common FETs (the big switches in the motor controller that switch power to the motor as it rotates) that have a limit of 63v so this might be too close for comfort.

This thing is so much fun to ride I am seriosuly considering selling my TY80 and getting a 20" for me. I think with a taller stem I could ride it in upper class. It is odd to get used to no clutch and so much power, but you just can't stop grinning when you get on one. You can't beleive how cool a 68 pound bike with massive power is until you try it.

I will be allowing test rides on at our next trials but be warned! You will pay for that broken fender when you do what Fearless did in my driveway today!

Anyway, I am glad I finally joined the asylum. I have a pretty good understanding of Osets, Lipo and electric bikes in general after all the reading I did to build Sparky so throw me some questions if you like.
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:53 AM   #39
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Awesome first post Lance!! Welcome aboard!!
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:54 AM   #40
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He made it 20 feet before he looped it. I won't mention any names, but it ryhmes with Jim Nugan.

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Old 01-22-2013, 05:10 AM   #41
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Bummer that Tim.....er, I mean Jim looped the new scoot. I can hardly wait to try it! I can attest on how much fun Sparky was to ride, the 20" sounds like a blast!

Welcome to the asylum, MooMoo.....er, I mean BetaRambo.
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:46 AM   #42
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You're stuttering a lot today brewtus...what up?
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:17 AM   #43
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You're stuttering a lot today brewtus...what up?

Too many names.....
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:48 AM   #44
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Can I use a 36v twist grip on a 24v set up? My 24v has a crack in it and I got a 36v setup with the bike

Thanks
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:55 AM   #45
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I think a 36V throttle will work. The battery charge indicators will definitely not work (it will show a dead battery). I have not tried it myself. I have gone the other way and run a 24V throttle at 36V. I think the hall sensor part of the throttle (the part that tells the controller the throttle position) is likely to be identical. I expect that the only difference is some resistor values in the circuit to light up the LEDs.

One way to make sure that the throttle is the problem is to put the bike up on a stand so the rear wheel is free to spin and then pull the throttle connector. There will be five wires and the colors vary by year. One is positive from the battery and one is ground. The remaining three are the three hall sensor phases. With the bike on, shorting some combinations on these three should make the wheel spin like full throttle. If this happens then the throttle is indeed the problem. Note that you need to take your time with this and make sure that you have really shorted the wires. I mislead myself into a wasted hour or so of troubleshooting when I wasn't really making contact.

The throttle is the most likely cause of "won't run" issues on these bikes followed by the relay so a simpler way is to just throw a throttle on there and try it. As long as I am here:

My personal Oset troubleshooting steps for "won't run" (I like to do them in order of easy and likely):

1. Make sure batteries are charged. To totally eliminate this as an issue I check it with the charger on.
2. Make sure I hear the click when the key is switched on (if not then it is likely to be the relay or relay wiring).
3. Double check that the potentiomter is open enough. The pots can fail so disconnecting it and shorting the wires will eliminate this.
4. Check the throttle with the shorting test above.
5. If none of the above get you there then you might have one of the rare complicated issues. You can troubleshoot the wiring if you have the skill or contact your dealer if you don't.

Way more answer than you asked for, but I thought I should write it down for others.
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