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Old 12-15-2012, 11:07 AM   #61
KMC1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCGS View Post
If you talked your buddy out of buying a XDm (in any caliber) because it's made in Croatia, you did your buddy a disservice. I own three... they're great handguns. I don't give a damn where they're made.
Well, I'm happy you like them. I'd like to see how many more you buy after your job gets outsourced to Croatia and is back filled by your new career as a greeter at Walmart.

I'd rather buy American when I can, and in this case it's easy. Buy an M&P and have a better gun, made in America.
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Old 12-15-2012, 11:27 AM   #62
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To me, American made is another name for crap made. American made has been crap since the 70s, even though the companies are trying to get it back, they are still losing. I cant buy a pair of boots (which I wear 99% of the time) that are made in America with the same quality as my Ariat boots (made in China).
Even though my wife's Ford Fusion is probably the best car we have ever owned, most of the parts were made in Canada and assembled in Mexico.
I have 31,000+ miles on my 2009 G650gs (with its Chinese assembled engine) and it has had 0 issues. The pre 2007 F650s has had numerous problems with water pumps and such, and the 2011 and later bmw 650 thumpers are having hot start issues (decompression issues); guess what, the pre 2007 and the 2011+ years were moved back to Germany/Austria, who has the better QA.
Even Harley cant brand the bike as American Made, as most parts are made outside USA.
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Old 12-15-2012, 11:36 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by pm9654 View Post
To all who say let Indian die, give Polaris a chance. There are a lot of hurdles they have, (price being a HUGE one) but this is the first time Indian has had the backing that they need to move ahead. I have my doubts as well as many here, but really want to see what they can do.

I agree and perhaps it will give Polaris a platform to build something a bit smaller/lighter than the current Vic line up. Maybe a new Scout is in the works...
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Old 12-15-2012, 11:50 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidc83 View Post
To me, American made is another name for crap made. American made has been crap since the 70s, even though the companies are trying to get it back, they are still losing. I cant buy a pair of boots (which I wear 99% of the time) that are made in America with the same quality as my Ariat boots (made in China).
Even though my wife's Ford Fusion is probably the best car we have ever owned, most of the parts were made in Canada and assembled in Mexico.
I have 31,000+ miles on my 2009 G650gs (with its Chinese assembled engine) and it has had 0 issues. The pre 2007 F650s has had numerous problems with water pumps and such, and the 2011 and later bmw 650 thumpers are having hot start issues (decompression issues); guess what, the pre 2007 and the 2011+ years were moved back to Germany/Austria, who has the better QA.
Even Harley cant brand the bike as American Made, as most parts are made outside USA.
Maybe the right thing to do is put more regulations on companies? Maybe if we continue to increase operating costs exponentially, quality will go up??? Maybe increased taxes will force companies to build better products???

I don't agree with you that American brands are all crappy either - I've had some really bad luck with BMW, Honda, and several others.

In either case, good luck buying import or domestic, when you're working for $7/hr in a service sector job instead of an actual career in a skilled trade.
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Old 12-15-2012, 12:30 PM   #65
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When the auto bailout happened, people complained that the government had no business in the car business. I guess they have had their eyes closed for the past 50 years. The government has been running the auto industry for several decades. If they had kept their nose out of where it didn't belong, and let the car companies build what the customers wanted at much more reasonable prices, there would probably have been no need for a bailout in the first place. Suzuki was forced out of the American auto market mostly by U.S DOT and EPA requirements, which made the vehicles cost more than people would pay. Vespa was forced out out the American market back in the '70s. They finally came back, but look what they cost. Even Harley may eventually be brought down by government interference.

BTW, while Harleys DO have a lot of foreign made parts, they are still assembled here, but more important, they are an American DESIGN. People called the Goldwing an American made bike because it was assembled in Ohio. But it was a Japanese design, and was assembled out of mostly Japanese parts.

I have a Beretta 9000S, and it is clearly stamped "made in Italy"
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Old 12-15-2012, 12:38 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidc83 View Post
To me, American made is another name for crap made. American made has been crap since the 70s, even though the companies are trying to get it back, they are still losing. I cant buy a pair of boots (which I wear 99% of the time) that are made in America with the same quality as my Ariat boots (made in China).
Even though my wife's Ford Fusion is probably the best car we have ever owned, most of the parts were made in Canada and assembled in Mexico.
I have 31,000+ miles on my 2009 G650gs (with its Chinese assembled engine) and it has had 0 issues. The pre 2007 F650s has had numerous problems with water pumps and such, and the 2011 and later bmw 650 thumpers are having hot start issues (decompression issues); guess what, the pre 2007 and the 2011+ years were moved back to Germany/Austria, who has the better QA.
Even Harley cant brand the bike as American Made, as most parts are made outside USA.
I really hate Americans betting against America. If China is so great you really should move there!

As for handguns, I'll put my U.S. made Kimber up against your Croatian made XD any time. I've owned a few Springfields. While they may make a reasonably decent product, the first Kimber I shot was in another class altogether and made a believer out of me. Next on the list is a Wilson Combat.

And fuck BMW, Honda, and the like. I owned plenty of them over the years until I either got tired of dealing with the issues (BMW) or realized the importance of spending my money with stateside companies. This is Jeep #6, purchased two days ago:




I'm sure we can take up a collection for your plane ticket to the people's republik. Hope you enjoy your new job at glorious worker's paradise #32
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Old 12-15-2012, 01:30 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmlmjmjm View Post
Here's 22 pages of high mileage Vics. Plenty in that range. Read it and weep:

http://forums.thevmc.com/bb/forums/t...164&start=1001

You did not identify what's quirky about them....
First of all-
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVMCForums
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Never said they couldn't do the miles. Your spreading 150K over 5 vehicles doesn't say much for the brand.

Hmmmm quirky. Parts availability. Parts quality. Fitment. Aftermarket support. Not to mention a limited dealer network.

Before you question my experience I've worked on all brands of bikes including Chang Jaing,Ariel,Harley and Honda for the past 30 years or so. And more than a couple Victorys.

And I who Lloyd Greer is too. May take some training from him in the spring when he's got the time.


Would you ride one around the world unsupported? Been done on an Indian and Harley long long ago. A breakdown or minor get-off in some deserted foreign backwater would lead to quite a story.

Fair 'nuff?
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Old 12-15-2012, 01:48 PM   #68
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Would I ride around the world on my Victory unsupported?

Yes!! And I'm going to do it as soon as I win the lottery!!!
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Old 12-15-2012, 02:37 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherguy View Post
First of all-

Never said they couldn't do the miles. Your spreading 150K over 5 vehicles doesn't say much for the brand.

Hmmmm quirky. Parts availability. Parts quality. Fitment. Aftermarket support. Not to mention a limited dealer network.

Before you question my experience I've worked on all brands of bikes including Chang Jaing,Ariel,Harley and Honda for the past 30 years or so. And more than a couple Victorys.

And I who Lloyd Greer is too. May take some training from him in the spring when he's got the time.


Would you ride one around the world unsupported? Been done on an Indian and Harley long long ago. A breakdown or minor get-off in some deserted foreign backwater would lead to quite a story.

Fair 'nuff?
Sorry for the bad link....there are hundreds of examples there of high mileage Vics going wherever, whenever they please.

I never questioned your experience I questioned your use of the word "quirky" on a brand of motorcycle that has proven to be one of the most reliable motorcyles on the market. I took your use of the word to mean "poorly engineered", let me assure you, they are not.

If I had the resources and time I would not hesitate to take a Victory around the world.

Say hello to Lloyd, we've done some things together in the past. He is a magician with Victory motors.
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:59 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Rollin' View Post
Would I ride around the world on my Victory unsupported?

Yes!! And I'm going to do it as soon as I win the lottery!!!
You'll need the lottery money to do it. I just finished two + years as a specialty claims adjuster/motorcycle subject matter expert for a very large national insurer. Of all of the thousands of motorcycle claims I looked at on every imaginable brand, Victory parts are among the most expensive of all production bikes - and not by a small amount. I was shocked to see things like $300 clutch handles, a run of the mill black front fender for $800, etc. Many parts were up to twice as expensive as Honda, which was typically a lot more expensive than comparable Harley parts (which were some of the least expensive, by the way). I think Victory builds a quality motorcycle, but I sure wouldn't want to have to pay for a parking lot tip over or worse.
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Old 12-16-2012, 06:55 PM   #71
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If I could afford to do a round the world trip I'd do it on a Victory in a minute. I've ridden my 2001 Sport Cruiser (1 of about 500 made) around the US and I'm planning a Mexico trip in 2013. I'm choosing to do it on a rare 12 year old bike with 40k miles on it rather than use my 2012 V-Strom. If I was going round the world I'd get a raised up Kingpin, throw on a bash plate, Loose the floorboards and add mid controls from a Judge and just go.

As for Indian, Polaris will not go out on a limb and make something other than a v-twin cruiser. Their money guys will decide that it's better to get 1% of 90% of the US market than 5% of the other 10%. If any Polaris brand does enter the ADV or ST market it will be Victory, or maybe Polaris if it's and ADV bike, maybe with a higher reving version of the inline 4 from their Razor ATV.

Mitch
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2012 Suzuki V-Strom

vicmitch screwed with this post 12-16-2012 at 07:09 PM
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Old 12-16-2012, 07:07 PM   #72
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Bueller is a real piece of work....lol
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:28 AM   #73
Ginger Beard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vicmitch View Post
As for Indian, Polaris will not go out on a limb and make something other than a v-twin cruiser. Their money guys will decide that it's better to get 1% of 90% of the US market than 5% of the other 10%. If any Polaris brand does enter the ADV or ST market it will be Victory, or maybe Polaris if it's and ADV bike, maybe with a higher reving version of the inline 4 from their Razor ATV.

Mitch
2001 Victory SC
2012 Suzuki V-Strom

I agree that it will more than likely not happen but I think that the Indian brand would be perfect for an American made ADV type bike. I would love to see the Scout revived as a vtwin powered ADV bike.
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:34 AM   #74
marksbonneville
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger Beard View Post
I agree that it will more than likely not happen but I think that the Indian brand would be perfect for an American made ADV type bike. I would love to see the Scout revived as a vtwin powered ADV bike.
Kind of like a cross between a Triumph Scrambler and a KTM.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:02 AM   #75
Ginger Beard
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Kind of like a cross between a Triumph Scrambler and a KTM.

YES!!
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