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Old 12-09-2012, 09:42 AM   #1
atomizer OP
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New Battery but 950 still won't start when cold. Help

Got a new battery for my 950. Fully charged. When cold out it will not start. Press the starter and it will start to catch then just get a whirling sound and clicking. When warm, starts up fine, might get a whirl or 2 sometimes before it catches.
Starter issues maybe. Any help would be great. About to do a trip with no access to a battery tender.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:46 AM   #2
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how long have you had the bike. When new my bike did the same. I had to replace a shaft on the starter.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:04 AM   #3
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Check and clean connections on starter relay.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:33 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atomizer View Post
Got a new battery for my 950. Fully charged. When cold out it will not start. Press the starter and it will start to catch then just get a whirling sound and clicking. When warm, starts up fine, might get a whirl or 2 sometimes before it catches.
Starter issues maybe. Any help would be great. About to do a trip with no access to a battery tender.
first thing, what year is it?

it is very possible that the sprag or the torque limiter is having issues. these symptoms are related to specific years.....

if battery voltage related, then make sure that the stater solenoid terminals are clean and tight as well as the battery terminals.
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Old 12-24-2012, 07:55 AM   #5
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Thanks

It is a 06 950. 28,000 miles. Starts fine when warm. When cold it will just make a whirling noise, no clacking or bad sounds..
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:26 AM   #6
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It is a 06 950. 28,000 miles. Starts fine when warm. When cold it will just make a whirling noise, no clacking or bad sounds..
Is it cranking but won't fire?

The 2006's should already have the starter torque limiter from the factory.

Verify your carb heaters are plugged in, check choke cables and make sure they aren't binding. Humor me and make sure your coils are fully seated on the spark plugs. After that I'd check the starter relays, and maybe make sure it has the proper grade oil in it for your temperature. (5-40 for sub 0) 10-50 to 10-60 otherwise.
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:37 AM   #7
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It is a 06 950. 28,000 miles. Starts fine when warm. When cold it will just make a whirling noise, no clacking or bad sounds..

sprag most likely is the problem as described, however without directly experiencing it, can't be sure. A video of it happening with good audio will help

It is possible to fix the sprag without replacing the whole flywheel assembly as shown by KTM for the LC8. You will need to source a new LC4 sprag, then disassemble the two sprags and swap the new parts from the LC4 into the LC8 unit. Seen this on two bikes so far, fixed them both by using LC4 sprag parts.
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:40 AM   #8
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Thanks

Mostly will just whirl and then sometimes will catch and crank. If the battery does not get worn down I can usually get it started after about 10 min. Choke cable is fine. I'll check the carb heater connection and the spark plug connections. Do I need to take the darn tanks off to do that (heater carb connection)?
Love the bike but a pain to work on especially having to take the crash bars off and tanks off every time I need to access something.....
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:44 AM   #9
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Thanks. Why a Sprag (what the heck is that :))from LC4 vs Lc8? Cost?
I'm leaving on a trip in a few days. Gonna be warmer where I'm going than these freezing NM temps at the moment. Hoping it will do okay till I get back and have time to properly fix it. No garage here and short on time. Plus all the shops are closed for x-mas holidays..



Quote:
Originally Posted by Head2Wind View Post
sprag most likely is the problem as described, however without directly experiencing it, can't be sure. A video of it happening with good audio will help

It is possible to fix the sprag without replacing the whole flywheel assembly as shown by KTM for the LC8. You will need to source a new LC4 sprag, then disassemble the two sprags and swap the new parts from the LC4 into the LC8 unit. Seen this on two bikes so far, fixed them both by using LC4 sprag parts.
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:50 AM   #10
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IF...big if.. KTM has the LC8 flywheel assembly in country, then its cost. I think its about $600 for the flywheel assembly with the sprag.

the sprag is the one way clutch that allows the starter motor to rotate the engine to start it but then not spin with the engine when it is running. So, when the engine is static, the starter motor is engergized (start button), this turns a gear set and ultimately one side of the sprag which engages with the other side (that is attached to the crankshaft), the start torque is transferred to the crankshaft and rotates the engine until it fires and runs on its own, the crankshaft speed is greater than the start motor system and therefore will slip past the start motor side of the assembly, you then release the start motor button and away you go..... So.... based upon what you are describing it is the sprag, if it is a loud clacking sound then its the torque limiter
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:54 AM   #11
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Component: IGNITION SYSTEM
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:56 AM   #12
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nice

That helps a ton. Thanks for the info.
last question, why does it start up no problem when warm vs the issues described when very cold out?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Head2Wind View Post
IF...big if.. KTM has the LC8 flywheel assembly in country, then its cost. I think its about $600 for the flywheel assembly with the sprag.

the sprag is the one way clutch that allows the starter motor to rotate the engine to start it but then not spin with the engine when it is running. So, when the engine is static, the starter motor is engergized (start button), this turns a gear set and ultimately one side of the sprag which engages with the other side (that is attached to the crankshaft), the start torque is transferred to the crankshaft and rotates the engine until it fires and runs on its own, the crankshaft speed is greater than the start motor system and therefore will slip past the start motor side of the assembly, you then release the start motor button and away you go..... So.... based upon what you are describing it is the sprag, if it is a loud clacking sound then its the torque limiter
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Old 12-24-2012, 09:17 AM   #13
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Having expericed a damaged sprag clutch these are the very symptoms I had. The tolerances must close up a little when the engine is hot allowing it to catch easier.

You can get out it cheaper if buy the LC4 clutch and fit it to the existing ignition rotor. You might need to buy the gear it engages on also.

See this thread http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...5&postcount=17 for using the LC4 parts.

This thread describes what I was having happen http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=801192
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Old 12-24-2012, 09:24 AM   #14
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Thank you. Hoping it will survive my trip till I get back to work on it. Could you post the link again to your thread that describes the symptoms? The one you posted below just links back to this Thread. Thanks again...


Quote:
Originally Posted by ciedema View Post
Having expericed a damaged sprag clutch these are the very symptoms I had. The tolerances must close up a little when the engine is hot allowing it to catch easier.

You can get out it cheaper if buy the LC4 clutch and fit it to the existing ignition rotor. You might need to buy the gear it engages on also.

See this thread http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...5&postcount=17 for using the LC4 parts.

This thread describes what I was having happen http://advrider.com/forums/newreply....e=1&p=20211099
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:19 AM   #15
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Hoping it will survive my trip till I get back to work on it.
I had the sprag fail on me. I think you are endangering your trip. Replacing the sprag is not too difficult and seems it needs to be done. I suggest you go on to replace the damaged item. It will take you 3 hours work once you have the tools. Watch out the seal on the balancer shaft. Gets easily misplaced.
Cheers.
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